Excellent input as always from you.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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Excellent input as always from you.
Quoted for truth. I get people hate him. But he's not lying, or wrong.
Thanks!
So? Is that your answer to every defeat? Sack every manager who loses to a small team? Are you a child?
Why is Klopp still at Liverpool when Burnley beat them 2-0 at the beginning of the season, same as Utd, season they finished outside the top 4? (16/17 i reckon?)
Why wasn’t Pep fired for losing 4-2 to Leicester or 4-0 to Everton?
You hate your manager, which is super weird for a Utd supporter, considering how SAF started his own reign (it was really shit for a while at the start iirc) and I see how that’s clouding your reasoning. Yes your football is dire at present but, tell me, just what do you think you were going to achieve with some of the dross in your squad who are still here after failing with 2 previous managers? Before you say, well why didn’t he get rid of them, do you not see what’s happening now? Clearly he isn’t in complete control of transfers and has to do as he’s told. Any blame whatsoever, in regards to transfers, should firmly lay at the foot of the V. Chairman.
Re attacking football; he’s changed his backroom, bringing in Carrick/Mckenna and, if he’s been playing defensive and is trying to switch, are they not going to have to go through growing pains to come to grips with whatever new system they employ? Besides, do you not realize they didn’t have a pre season to implement said changes? Are you not seeing the effects of same lack of pre season in how disjointed the players looked at Brighton, being unable to string 2 passes together? How do you explain Pogba’s utterly woeful performance? Or Fred?
If some of you, who hate the manager (fair enough) could try to apply a little sense here and there I think your team would be better for it. Last I checked, teams need their 12th man. The vitriol and attitude towards your club at the minute doesn’t resemble the “Utd way” most of us have come to admire and respect.
My $0.02.
Except he isn't
What has he said that's wrong?
The reason I think his time here, to date, is a failure is the absolute dross I have to drag myself to OT to watch every other week. His failure to get any cohesive gameplan together or have any of our players playing really well. His, in my opinion, terrible handling of the players he has and the morning about players he doesn't have.
So if you don't mind, I'll decide for myself what I personally expect of a Manchester United team and manager. I've seen us win every trophy imaginable so at this point I can deal with not winning trophies if we are progressing.
This whole section for one. Mourinho doesn't know to attack :
Completely misses the point, as even with Jose chaos football, he isn't getting it right at United.
His early Chelsea side, Inter side, and Real side had functioning and coherent attacking units even if he did have a defensive setup with some of those sides.
We have not and do not look like we have a coherent setup let alone a coherent attacking setup. We're also not able to get the most our of our attacking players (Like he did at his pervious clubs)
The issue isn't anything to do with whether its pleasant on the eye or not, the issue is its not working. His first Chelsea side were great to watch when they went for it, as were Madrid.
The issue is some people are wondering whether the Jose of old is outdated, and can he or has he been able to adapt.
Everyone remembers what Wenger was like 15 years ago, but he failed to adapt to the times, and the question many are asking is is the same happening to Jose, which is a fair question
Also I disagree most fans will be signing Jose praises if we beat Spurs which is in one of his first sentences. The mood was negative at the end of last season even with match going fans and thats after we came second.
EDIT: The main issue is people just can't be objective, its like your either Jose is great or Jose is rubbish.
Yes Jose was a great manager, maybe he still is, what is clear though is at United so far he has not been able to sort out our attacking play over a sustained period of time. We have looked good in the odd game and especially at the start of last season, but thats about it.
So after 2 seasons, people are well within their rights to question his attacking tactics. Its clear if you look at his past exploits and this United side that its not working.
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So the club vetoed the other two 29/30 year olds he wanted to sign this season, making the 4 I mentioned.
And no I'm upset that he's acting like a little child, he's clearly been briefed by the club, so now he's spat his dummy out. He said he isn't going to criticise players in the media because he gets criticised by the media for it. What's that about. He's thrown players under the bus to protect his own image.
He needs to grow up and do the job he's very well paid to do.
Here’s my last allowed post of the day. Mate well said. They won’t like it and will throw all sorts of abuse at you but it is what is. How dare you tell them like it is?
Have you played football cos it seems like you have. Majority of people I have come across on this forum who share such intellect and reasoning aren’t mere fans. Some of them have played or are playing the game at some semi competitive level and seem to appreciate the inner workings of the sport and show a level of understanding of what might be going on etc. I for one have played this game and I tell you, a lot that’s been happening on the pitch here isn’t as bad as people are making it seem. Yes, several players need to up their game and the manager needs to find ways to fire them up but you don’t come second playing utter shit. It just doesn’t happen. Otherwise Moyes would’ve done it.
Good post.
Wow ok dude none of us know football and just making it up because we don't love mourinho
Always amusing when a newbie pops up claiming to have higher knowledge/intellect and taking potshots at others despite coming across as very obvious bias.
Look, you have a preference. And that's pretty much it. Every one of your arguments has been countered here many times before. Simply calling the opposing view biased/clueless does feck all to prove whatever point you're trying to make.
As for Mourinho, there's an argument to be made. His performance as Manchester United manager and how good it's been or even whether it's been good enough is extremely debatable. Pretending that everything is going swimmingly and assuming all criticisms are largely unfounded don't reconcile with events and facts based on events on and off the pitch. Best get used to that and try to rationalize rather than resort to lame insinuations.
The problem is this is the weakest club (maybe bar Inter) he took over. It needed a serious overhaul whilst competing with oil money. It would be ridiculous to demand a cohesive machine after 2 seasons when the man walked in with no proper cb partnership, no striker, no fecking midfielders and so on.
Very bizzare you draw parallels to Wenger. Mourinho has delivered silverware in his 2nd season and finished higher than Wenger did in most of his last 10 seasons FFS. If Jose was so outdated and inept then he wouldn't have dragged our side to 2nd place last season. You don't get to 2nd place in the Premier League using dinosaur tactics. Especially not in today's day and age. It's just more sensationalist bullshit.
Well this is it isn't it? You don't look at context whatsoever. Ignore the fact that he's overhauled his backroom staff, has 3 major players due back from injury and note that he has one or two prima Donna's on the club to handle, you just say "2 seasons. Not good attacking. Should be questioned".
Im sorry that's just utter tripe. He wasn't terrible in approach in the first season, and for the first half of last season he was doing absolutely fine in all areas. It was when Huddersfield away happened and where we lost most our midfield to long term injuries that shit started falling apart.
Yeah, he was off the mark in occasional games tactically too but I'm not going to walk into 2 games this season and pretend that he's a bad manager or that he's lost it. If he didn't want to adapt or was stuck in his ways, he wouldn't have brought in a coach like McKenna to have a say on the first team.
The bolding option isn't working on my phone but this is a strange line of argument.
Questioning the work he's done with our attack is apparently "utter tripe". Next, you'll be telling us how questioning the fluidity of our football is "a calamity". No need to be so precious. We haven't hit the mark as an attacking force under a manager who is given plenty to spend. So of course our attack and the manager managing our attack has to be questioned. Some people seem to think Mourinho is managing Stoke.
I apologise actually. Upon reading again I think it's completely fair to question our attacking fluidity.
Some posters refuse to put it into context however, and just conclude Mourinho is a dinosaur where things will only get worse. It is this I disagree with.
Again no objectivity, nobody said anything about winning the league, but having a coherant setup after 2 seasons is 100% doable, especially after signing the players he has. I completely disagree that its not possible. After 2 seasons I expect to see progress in terms of the tactical setup and the players understanding it. Yes we wouldn't be able to catch City but like I said that isn't what I am judging it on.
Who said he is inept, again objectivity. I am talking about our sides attacking displays and attacking coherance.
As for Wenger, well also won 3 FA cups in the last 5 years I believe and came 2nd in the league about 3 years ago if my memory serves me correctly.
Again I haven't said he is outdated, though, I am saying its a question people are asking, and the reference to Wenger is to show that managers can become outdated. Again my point being shown again, you can't say something without someone going taking it way overboard and being overly protective
I am not talking about the Brighton game, again the context is the 2 season, it hasn't been good in an attacking sense, so questions are asked.
Again if you read I have not mentioned anything about Brighton or this season. My comments are based on his first 2 seasons at the club and they are questions to be asked. No conclusions even being made, yet look at your response.
2 seasons and all the support he has had in the past has to be good enough for him to get us to play decent football. It is something else to lose to City and not to win the PL but to play his terrible football season after season is simply not acceptable after two seasons.
We had one shot on goal. Just one shot on goal against Brighton apart from the one Lukaku scored and the penalty. Jose has done nothing in the last season or now to convince me now that we are on the right trajectory. Yes I supported him when he came because he guaranteed instant success and he did give us the League Cup and the Europa Cup.
But now it looks like he does not want to be here and wants to get out. The players look clueless and he looks clueless.
We had one shot on goal. Just one shot on goal against Brighton apart from the one Lukaku scored and the penalty. Jose has done nothing in the last season or now to convince me now that we are on the right trajectory. Yes I supported him when he came because he guaranteed instant success and he did give us the League Cup and the Europa Cup.
But now it looks like he does not want to be here and wants to get out. The players look clueless and he looks clueless.
He’s been given over £300m to improve the squad he inherited and our performances have gone backwards so have a few of our players. He hasn’t challenged for the league.
He hasn’t bought players as he isn’t getting the best out of what he currently has so the board haven’t given him money. It’s a joke he moans at not having a blank chequebook. Why not get the best out of what you’ve got? Every single attacking player is either unhappy, low on confidence or generally underperforming for one reason or another.
Pogba isn’t being managed properly clearly. Look at how he has played for France and Juve. You could accept it if Sanchez, Martial, Rashford weren’t also underperforming just as all his Chelsea squad were towards the end. If Pogba was to leave he was undoubtedly smash it for another team.
I agree the media agenda is a joke and the results were much better last season. However, the shite performances weren’t justified when City were so far ahead of us points wise and played so much better football. Jose is a footballing dinasour.
The Neville's are fecking idiots though, Phil especially (although more harsh terms could be used for him). Couldn't care less if they think it's Mourinho or not.
He isn't spot on because there are definitely more reasons as to why some fans would want Mourinho to leave the club. It's very arrogant to just assume things like that.
What about the comments on the tour though?
Don't you think that was a little insight into his views on not buying/playing the finished article?
Plus, for every player you name that he has introduced or improved I could probably name you two or three that have regressed under him.
In fact, two of them that you name, Martial and Rashford have, most ppl would say, gone backwards under him.
So that leaves Lingard and McTominay that he's improved, is it any wonder we look bang average?
Actually, you don't. Respect has to be earned, and Jose has done nothing to earn it here as a manager. He was not telling the truth, just making excuses to protect his own ego.
No, it was not. It was biggest load of nonsensical crap spouted by him to protect his own image and ego, which is all he cares about.
He is the manager, it is his job to make sure that we have a good season, no manager gets every player they want. That is the reason he is one of the highest paid managers around, to perform better and get more out of the squad than other managers. So far he has fqiled to do so. If he can't do the job, then he can feck off. His own attitude is so negative, defeatist and cowardly, why do people expect the players to suddenly play with passion and positivity. The manager is the leader, and should be giving the players the confidence to play with freedom and express their talent on the field. No wonder we suck with a negative person like him incharge at the helm.
Pogba is plenty disciplined, and he is not the problem that our midfield looks broken. The problem is cohesion between players, and that has been the problem irrespective of Pogba playing in the team or not. The entire team looks disjointed no matter which players are selected to play, that should make it obvious that the biggest problem is the manager.
The media are scum, but finishing 19 points behind City, and winning nothing is hardly a great achievement. Also, while the media were not singing our praises, the media were also not being overly critical of us either. They only really started their shit after Jose started moaning, he basically gave them the ammunition to go on the attack. He knew what he was doing with that stunt he pulled, too bad it back fired on him. The reason there is so much negativity and toxicity around the club is because Jose started it himself.
No, you can't. In fact, it is better not to trust anyone because all of them will try to protect their own reputation. The players, Woodward and yes, that includes Jose. No one knows what happens off the pitch, we only know what we see on the pitch, and I see a manager who is struggling to get us performing and playing as a team. That job is Jose's responsibility, and so far it has not been good enough.
The end isn't too far away I feel. He's getting more and more wound up, the media smell blood, his relationship with the board can't be great and the players aren't doing it for him. Sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.
When you actually think about it, this is all true.
I do not pay any attention to preseason.
I am looking forward to your list of about a dozen players that he has made noticeably worse. I can name Shaw that has regressed and maybe Martial (not sure, I think he’s the same player he was, just hasn’t progressed) both of whom have had clear attitude issues too.
This is a good point. If the job at United is tougher than any of the other top clubs, then he's being paid the equivalent of Guardiola (15 million per year, isn't it?) to compensate for the nature of the job. His complaining is justified if he was earning only as much as Poch, Klopp or other managers, but to earn the highest salary for a manager in the world, you better do something special.
Pochettino hasn't actually come out and complained about Levy, and you can argue he was really hard done by, having been promised signings and yet gotten nothing. Out of every 5 clubs, atleast 4 are inefficiently run in some way or other, its' not like every club but United operates as well as City or Liverpool do. So managers have to suck it up considering the wages they get.
Mourinho finished second last year to a team that is clearly, clearly superior. Just because you earn a lot doesn't mean you're going to pull off all the wins because at the end of the day, a manager is only as good as the players they have at their disposal. Mourinho obviously achieved a really good position last year, best of the rest due to City storming the league.
Then you look at Liverpool, how they have clearly strengthened their squad compared to United. The top managers know the minimum requirements needed in order to win and right now United under Jose do not meet those minimum requires from a player quality, player mentality and player consistency stand point. He'll continue to manage the squad as he sees best to get the points.
Nobody asked him to win the league. Only that, after 2 years, one should atleast see some cohesion in the attack. With Klopp, Liverpool finished 8th, 4th and 4th, but the team cohesion was there to see. Of course, Klopp has other faults, like being a finals bottler, but that is irrelevant here - look at how Firmino has an understanding with the wingers, and how their midfield links up with the forwards. The simple point is, why can't Jose orchestrate a sharp, fluid, fast attack with Lukaku, Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez and Matic holding? Its' the bare minimum.
We look like a rich man's Sunderland despite coming 2nd last season.
People are asking him to win the league though. Already won a domestic cup, went to another domestic cup final last year, won a Europa League trophy. The only step now from 2nd is winning the league, what's so hard to accept? That's the barometer. Give Jose 2 years with the necessary players needed. Lukaku going into his second year. Sanchez going into his 8th month with the team. Pogba is not an attacking midfielder, he's stated that over and over himself. He's an orthodox central midfielder who impacts the game from the center.
Jose has his way of playing his team and it's not for everyone. But what we cannot doubt is how he's improved the squad, won with the squad and the improved results since he's been in charge. Whoever the next manager is, they better win the league with the squad they will inherit plus a few signings under him.
Ellis Short is a/was a rich man with multiple managers under his tenure and look where Sunderland is now (just look down, down the English Football pyramid). It's a poor comparison. United have performed well to finish 2nd to one of the best teams in Premier League history over the course of 38 matches. Better than Liverpool, better than Chelsea, better than Spurs, etc. Liverpool have a better attack, Chelsea have Hazard/Kante, Spurs have Kane and Eriksen. It's not as if United finished above these gobshite teams by luck.
You’re clearly out of the touch with people wanting Jose out from the club, I can reassure few expect us to challenge. However, most fans simply want at last to see some excitement and joy back in watching United play because it has been an absolute chore. I willing to bet most even don’t mind defensive football if it’s actually implemented well and we resemble a coherent unit on the pitch. We on the other hand are simply relying on individual brilliance to bail as out time and time again which masked a lot of our poor performances as there’s no actual plan on the pitch. Anyone with a brain watching us could tell from afar it’s not sustainable and we’re gonna get find out sooner rather than later without a real shit in tactics, training and system.
Nope, they are asking him to make sure that our attack plays cohesively and not look like a bunch of individuals thrown onto the pitch. Firstly, the only reason we finished 2nd was because Liverpool had a thin squad and thus threw away some games at the end. By my estimation, we are the 3rd best team and that has been reinforced this season, thanks to Ed's feck ups and Liverpool themselves strengthening further. Maybe 4th best this season if Sarri gets Chelsea going.
Secondly, and apologies for comparing our rivals Liverpool again -- they finished 20 odd points behind City as well. But notice how much happier they are? Reason is because their football is good and there is a direction. Jose, despite finishing 2nd with the team, looks clueless, the team is rudderless and the style of play is horrific. If we had played some decent stuff, nobody would be complaining about finishing 19 points behind a team that bought the league.
You can't tell me that pacy, quick football is impossible with the forward line we have, the weak right flank not withstanding. Forget that, we look worse than relegation threatened teams at times. I think we are the only top club in the world that phones in a performance equalling peak Sunderland in some games.
Regarding the cups, the LC and EL were two of the most tedious wins in all honesty. We were a Guidetti goal away from crashing out of the EL. Of course, full credit to Jose, but cup competitions do have the luck element and do not serve as a barometer for progress, unless they have the quality of the CL. Both the LC and EL runs were full of mediocre/average teams.
But you can only beat what is in front of you, and so I am not knocking it. I am also not spoilt; fully appreciate the importance of silverware and cherish it. However, it cannot be used to judge our style of play/progress etc. The league and CL are barometers and the Sevilla game and the idiotic LvGesque football heritage rant took away whatever credit Jose earned with those cups. Blank slate now.
Jose had his way of playing at Madrid and Chelsea. But at United, he looks lost. We haven't played either counter attacking football, or park-the-bus at all times. It is some ugly mess that nobody can pinpoint exactly what it is.
Secondly, has he improved the squad? He himself has little trust in Bailly and Lindelof. Lukaku, Matic and Pogba are improvements from the LvG era. Out of that, he's already fallen out with Pogba so much that the latter is agitating for a move. Matic will give us 2 more years tops. That leaves Lukaku. But season's still young, we will see if Sanchez, Fred and Dalot atleast do something useful.
Chelsea had Hazard and Kante, but we too have Lukaku and Matic, two regular 7/10 performers minimum. Chelsea's squad is as bad as ours in other areas, but within weeks Sarri's infused an identity with them. Liverpool are better than us and were better last season, it hurts me to concede.
This. Even if Jose adopted a method like Simeone, atleast it signifies some sort of direction. And if you argue he can't do it as he has bad defenders, well fair fecks --- why not coach the attack properly to make up for it? The attack is not at all coached, and that is the main problem 90% of the people have with Jose.
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Those post match comments were truly disgraceful. Here the manager of Manchester United was having a go at the club and it's fans because of their expectations moments after going out in the 1st knockout round after more than questionable tactical decision making on his end.
He publicly mocked the club and it's history all in an effort to shield himself from criticism,it was gutless and was where he finally lost me.
How so many have flipped it by implying that fed up fans somehow don't care about the club is especially rich as they contort themselves to defend a man who cares about himself and his ego more than anything else
Klopp has his direction because he's a good manager combined with a club that has back him 100% in the transfer market, full stop. He's also entering his 4th year with Liverpool if I recall correctly. There's been complete continuity under his managerial time, something that is completely opposite compared to United and that's down to both Jose and the board. It's fecking a sad state of affairs not including all the BS the media spits out. Jose is a good manager and much more successful than Klopp, yet it doesn't seem that way. It's odd.
The way Liverpool play cannot work currently at United, unless you omit Pogba. Our midfield trio, collectively, are not agile enough and most importantly, do not work as a unit to press, disrupt, gain possession of the ball and then play it quickly into space behind the opposition. It's a thankless job. Pogba will never be that player, never. Matic can be the base anchor, especially if Henderson can do it, Matic can. Fred has some qualities of that type of central midfield player Liverpool play under Klopp.
Cup competitions require a great mixture of luck/favorable matches, no matter the opponent or competition. So I'm not going to discredit anything a team wins. The CL debacle against Sevilla, yes, took Jose down a notch. That was not right for anyone and it was embarrassing any way you look at that.
Jose has improved the squad and too much is being made from losing against Brighton. It was a horror show for everyone involved but to say that is their consistent output week in week out will be similar or even close to Brighton is wrong. Team still lacks balance (i.e. right side/Mata) and Dalot is too young and inexperienced at the moment so he'll need at least a couple years. LB is still a big question mark until Shaw or Young makes it their own which will have it's ups and downs.
He should have been fired long time ago. That loss to Sevilla should have been the line in the sand even for people that preached patience and were willing to give him time.
Me personally, I wanted him gone after a few months Thats unreasonable, sure but the signs were there. However the loss to Sevilla was disgraceful and inexcusable. How the heck he stayed a manager after that is beyond me. It wasnt just the loss, it was also embarrasing the way we played.
Me personally, I wanted him gone after a few months Thats unreasonable, sure but the signs were there. However the loss to Sevilla was disgraceful and inexcusable. How the heck he stayed a manager after that is beyond me. It wasnt just the loss, it was also embarrasing the way we played.
Klopp was implementing his vision before Liverpool signed any players, just when he joined, even with the likes of Sturridge, Lallana and the rest of Rodgers' team. Liverpool finished 8th, but there was a clear identity within 2 months of his appointment and the good players they signed made his system work better.
Implementation of a style requires personnel, but you can see it in whatever team a manager plays. Even when LvG played with reserves, the possession style was evident. But with Jose, there is no direction at all, regardless of whether he is backed in the market or not. He came in saying he wanted to implement an attacking style, proceeded to scout the likes of Willian or Perisic who may fit a counter attacking team and currently plays garbage walkabout football with zero identity.
Never said Jose should play like Klopp. You misunderstood. But fine, you are welcome to your opinion, let's see how this season unfolds.
Jose is a miserable git. People can argue about whether it’s justified or not, or whether the press are arseholes but ultimately the image he projects is incredibly dour and unappealing. If he wants support from the fans and isn’t willing to provide any entertainment via the 90 minutes of football each weekend at the very least he’s got to smile and have a laugh in his press conferences and interviews. Otherwise all people see is terrible football matches and a miserable man managing it all. If he wants to succeed here then he’s got to provide entertaining football and/or charisma off the pitch. Lately, and for majority of his tenure, it’s been neither. Can’t be surprised at how unpopular he’s been then.
I personally don't care about pre season results either, however I take exception to our manager basically saying that the squad we took with us was rubbish.
In fact, I'd call out any supposed manager/leader of any organisation who unjustly tears into a group of young lads who are only learning their trade, that's seriously crossing a line IMO.
Plus, it was Mourinhio who made a big deal out of players who missed the tour because of the world cup, nobody else really cared because, as we both agree, its only pre season.
Not sure if you're winding me up or not by suggesting it would be difficult to name a dozen players who have failed to make any progress under Jose since he joined.
Anyway, here goes:
De Gea, Shaw, Smalling, Jones, Lindelof, Baily, Blind, Darmian, Herrerea, Martial, Mkthytrian, Rashford, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fosu-Menshah, Pogba.
(Probably forgetting more)
For various reasons, I would genuinely argue not one player out of the above fulfilled the potential we all thought they had, under Mourinhio.
BTW, I'm not suggesting it's all his fault, the players have to take some of the responsibility, I'm just answering your question.
That’s pure nonsense, you just named basically everybody. Most of them are the same or better, Lukaku has actually made a significant progress (especially in his link up play) since arriving. Someone like Darmian was hopeless before he came. Sanchez has been here for 7 months. De Gea hasn’t regressed at all, he’s still amazing.
You said for every player that improved there are 2-3 that regressed. It’s completely wrong. Shaw is the only player I can honestly say has got worse over the last three years, noticeably worse. Many have not got better but it’s normal for players who were already 25-27 before he arrived to remain at a similar level.
Agree 100%.
Plus, what made it worse for me, was as soon as he said it I immediately remembered what he said in his very first press conference when he got the job.
He was telling the fans to forget about the past few seasons, then, as soon as HE makes a balls up, he starts yapping on about how mediocre we've been in the last few seasons.
To be honest though, it's just got to the point where nothing really surprises me any more with him.
If I had £1 for every time he contradicted himself I'd be retired right now, living on a beach or something.
He's just a tw*t, thats turning the club into a laughing stock, there's no other way to describe the situation IMO.
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