José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances

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Kapardin said:
Forget SAF. Ever wonder how the forwards in lower mid table teams seem more cohesive and fluid than us, regardless of their quality? It's getting to be a joke if we look worse going forward than the likes of Bournemouth or Watford with the players we have.
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This is why I want to see an actual full length training session (a la those France WC sessions). You can't even get the comparable snippets that LFC or MCI post on Youtube (especially during preseason). Along with a DOF, they need an independent Youtube content creator separate from the awful MUTV.
 
Jeppers7 said:
As someone who always wanted Jose to replace saf, I have to say I'm shocked by how poor a job he's done so far.

He might not have got all the players he wanted, but he has had Zlatan, Pogba, Mikhi, Alexis, Matic, Fred, Lukaku. His policy of buying 29-30 year olds has to be reigned in because it's short term and unsustainable. You might buy one of these players to galvanise the whole squad but buying 4 or 5, you risk a whole rebuild in three years.

For me results have outweighed performances. We don't have a game plan, any patterns in our attacking play, really none of our players are playing well as we play a system that reacts to Brighton, Leicester, Sevilla or Ajax in a showpiece final. All teams we are massively better than player wise.

It's time for Jose to do some work, put something together with the players he does have, stop droning on about players he hasn't got. Build some confidence in the players. Get the best out of our talented players. Trying to prove yourself right by throwing young players into a team for one match then throwing them under the bus for not performing won't help.

Stop moaning.......stop being patheticly overly nice, playing stupid games like a teenager, in the media.

Do your job. If you don't like your job.....leave it.

Get a grip. A lot of fans saw you as the answer as soon as Fergie were to retire. But your tenure to date has been extremely underwhelming and the football is tumescent.
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How has Mourinho done a poor job? He's won us two trophies in his first season and led us to 2nd place last season and the only reason we couldn't compete for the league is because Man City are a financially dopped monster.

Klopp hasn't won anything with Liverpool yet he's lauded by the press for being a failure unless Klopp wins something this season, his glorious tenure as Liverpool manager is more of a failure than Mourinho's time with us.

The reason you think Mourinho's time is a failure with us is because the man has built his career on winning the big trophies and with that comes the added pressure of delivering them at every club you go.
 
I think Jose gets fired soon, for the simple reason that he lost the locker room. You can't try to sell a guy (or two) and then expect them to give their best for you. Actually, I think that's what he said he was going to do with Stankovic in Inter, and Stankovic dug deep to claim his place in the team; but that was a different era player and a different era man.

As always the lack of good football and to some extent results has more than just one cause. First of all Jose is to blame for the signings; Miki didn't work out, Lindelof and Baily are hot and cold, and Pogba is not worth the money that was paid for him. The jury is still out on Sanchez. Overall there were way too many disappointing signings. However, Jose deserves credit for Ibra, Matic, and Lukaku, and for the fact that, at least on paper, the team looks stronger than before.

The other thing that is clear is that this squad is not good enough to compete with City. I hate to break it to you, but Rashford, Lingard, and Martial will never reach "their true potential". This is as good as they are ever going to be. Continue clinging to the hopes that they will one day lead you to glory, and you are in for a rude awakening.

I'm not an expert, but maybe Jose belongs in a smaller team. His style clashes with the expectations of the mega teams and their fans. It is simply not a good fit with the style of play that is expected, the players that usually play for those teams, and the spoiled fan base.

Having said all of that, I'm still his fan.
 
We've had a lot of upheaval. McKenna new to the job as well as Carrick. The ONLY big disappointment I have is our transfer dealings. I think the owners should sell because they cannot compete and talk of 'value' is dumb in the current climate. Sell the club before you do more damage. It's going to be difficult and it's going to be hard. The players need to look at themselves and stop talking shite on social media. Jose should be using all this negativity to generate a response in the players, but many of them are gutless. We need to sell and we need to buy and we need to back the manager. When we gave away Nani, Rafael and Hernandez for peanuts....don't try to tell people there is no value and don't try to convince the world we can suddenly start selling when it's clear we don't know how to. Blind aside, we are sloppy. I think Jose needs our support. Forget Ed out etc etc..we need to breath some renewed energy/anger in this guy because he's in new territory. He's a man who doubts himself by his lack of inability to raise these players. Or perhaps people think he's 100% happy with his group and we cannot improve on them? :) ….The loss was NOT a shock. It's about time we got angry.
 
Jeppers7 said:
As someone who always wanted Jose to replace saf, I have to say I'm shocked by how poor a job he's done so far.

He might not have got all the players he wanted, but he has had Zlatan, Pogba, Mikhi, Alexis, Matic, Fred, Lukaku. His policy of buying 29-30 year olds has to be reigned in because it's short term and unsustainable. You might buy one of these players to galvanise the whole squad but buying 4 or 5, you risk a whole rebuild in three years.
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Zlatan was signed on a free and I'd rather take him than no established striker whatsoever. Lukaku is 24 and so is Pogba. Fred is 25 and Dalot is 19.

The only 29 yr old players Mourinho signed was Sanchez (as a swap for one of our older players) and Matic (for a great value transfer fee). So no, none of his targets really need to be reigned in. Only Lindelof looks like a big mistake but he was only 23 when we signed him and can still improve massively if you think about that.


Jeppers7 said:
It's time for Jose to do some work, put something together with the players he does have, stop droning on about players he hasn't got. Build some confidence in the players. Get the best out of our talented players. Trying to prove yourself right by throwing young players into a team for one match then throwing them under the bus for not performing won't help.

Stop moaning.......stop being patheticly overly nice, playing stupid games like a teenager, in the media.

Do your job. If you don't like your job.....leave it.

Get a grip. A lot of fans saw you as the answer as soon as Fergie were to retire. But your tenure to date has been extremely underwhelming and the football is tumescent.
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A bizzare moan from you. He has drawn a line on transfers since deadline day and hasn't once mentioned players he would like.

He has also refrained from being critical of players who deserve it. You're upset when he's critical and you're upset when he's nice. Good one.
 
Z1L3 said:
I think Jose gets fired soon, for the simple reason that he lost the locker room. You can't try to sell a guy (or two) and then expect them to give their best for you. Actually, I think that's what he said he was going to do with Stankovic in Inter, and Stankovic dug deep to claim his place in the team; but that was a different era player and a different era man.

As always the lack of good football and to some extent results has more than just one cause. First of all Jose is to blame for the signings; Miki didn't work out, Lindelof and Baily are hot and cold, and Pogba is not worth the money that was paid for him. The jury is still out on Sanchez. Overall there were way too many disappointing signings. However, Jose deserves credit for Ibra, Matic, and Lukaku, and for the fact that, at least on paper, the team looks stronger than before.

The other thing that is clear is that this squad is not good enough to compete with City. I hate to break it to you, but Rashford, Lingard, and Martial will never reach "their true potential". This is as good as they are ever going to be. Continue clinging to the hopes that they will one day lead you to glory, and you are in for a rude awakening.

I'm not an expert, but maybe Jose belongs in a smaller team. His style clashes with the expectations of the mega teams and their fans. It is simply not a good fit with the style of play that is expected, the players that usually play for those teams, and the spoiled fan base.

Having said all of that, I'm still his fan.
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Really ? For 80 million he's been very disappointing also. Matic has been good but not great and I'd say the same for Zlatan.
 
NK86 said:
The team which lost to Brighton had 5 of his players - one of whom missed a sitter while the other two were directly responsible for all three goals. So we didn't lose cause of the other players but because the ones Jose bought shit the bed and that has happened a fair few times over the last 2 seasons.

Throwing players under the bus to suck up to the manager (who has shown signs of being past his sell by date) is so typical on this forum.

Fergie got excellent performances from anlot of average players. He didn't need 11 WC players to do the job. Something which people conveniently forget when trying to compare the legend to Jose.
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Don’t remember a time when we had a squad as weak as 2 world class players, 3 or 4 good ones, a handful of average ones and a load of shite ones. People still delusional my thinking that shit like darmian and jones are going to improve to a point where they can take us near the title or that some other manager will get a load More out of them.

No pressure on places and no strength in depth.

Look at teams who decline and get relegated from the premiership. Say most recently Villa and Swansea. They kept sacking and hiring managers to shield the board from the fact that the recruited level of investment wasn’t there and the players out on the pitch were shite. Obviously i’m Not saying we are going to get relegated that would be ridiculous but I think the number one reason for decline is lack of investment. For an example nearer the top of the league look at arsenal after they brought the new stadium and couldn’t invest anymore. All the best players left for more ambitious clubs and they consistently underachieved, the underachievement being for the club, but not for the players they were putting out on the pitch. We bring in 581 million in revenue and sign Fred and Dalot. Where’s the money going?
 
NK86 said:
The team which lost to Brighton had 5 of his players - one of whom missed a sitter while the other two were directly responsible for all three goals. So we didn't lose cause of the other players but because the ones Jose bought shit the bed and that has happened a fair few times over the last 2 seasons.

Throwing players under the bus to suck up to the manager (who has shown signs of being past his sell by date) is so typical on this forum.

Fergie got excellent performances from anlot of average players. He didn't need 11 WC players to do the job. Something which people conveniently forget when trying to compare the legend to Jose.
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Don’t remember a time when we had a squad as weak as 2 world class players, 3 or 4 good ones, a handful of average ones and a load of shite ones. People still delusional my thinking that shit like darmian and jones are going to improve to a point where they can take us near the title or that some other manager will get a load More out of them.

No pressure on places and no strength in depth.

Look at teams who decline and get relegated from the premiership. Say most recently Villa and Swansea. They kept sacking and hiring managers to shield the board from the fact that the recruited level of investment wasn’t there and the players out on the pitch were shite. Obviously i’m Not saying we are going to get relegated that would be ridiculous but I think the number one reason for decline is lack of investment. For an example nearer the top of the league look at arsenal after they brought the new stadium and couldn’t invest anymore. All the best players left for more ambitious clubs and they consistently underachieved, the underachievement being for the club, but not for the players they were putting out on the pitch. We bring in 581 million in revenue and sign Fred and Dalot. Where’s the money going?
 


Phil follows Gary in defending Mourinho. Doesn't seem like the class of 92 think Mourinho is the problem at Man Utd.
 
#07 said:


Phil follows Gary in defending Mourinho. Doesn't seem like the class of 92 think Mourinho is the problem at Man Utd.
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Why is he referring to the 3-2 derby match from last year? :lol:
Is he forgetting City had an important UCL match a few days later and were resting a couple of players(De Bruyne, Aguero, Walker)
It's like those fanboys of his who were praising the EL win like some sort of an achievement yet we had one of the easiest runs in like forever and were
a touch away from getting knocked out by a Celta side that finished the season 13th in la liga :wenger::rolleyes:
I'm hoping we dont lose against Spurs but at the moment i can't see us even beating the likes of Everton
 
Miscemayl said:
Of course the squad looks mostly the same. He had 3 summer transfer window and it would be nonsense to replace 15 to 20 players during that time frame.

In the first 2 windows he addressed the biggest gaps in our team, the midfield and replacing Rooney. Bailly and Lindelof are both young and mainly purchases for the future. Neither were instant first team replacements

This window he wanted to address the final piece of the puzzle with the defenders. He wants to add the experience to enable the rest of the team to push further up, and to shield Bailly and Lindelof. Unfortunately Ed decided he knew better and we are now stuck the same issue we had last season.

We need to protect the back four and hence needing to drop the midfield back.

Pep had a much better squad to start with and he spent tons on defence. Read he spent 290m just on defence, and he bought 2 goal keepers. Even Pep makes mistakes but he's allowed to promptly fix it. He also had the backing straight away to do whatever he wanted with the squad and promptly replaced Hart. You could tell Mourinho didn't have the same backing and had to make do with Rooney on his first season.

So it's light years between the power and resource Pep had.

With Klopp, he was given more time to work it out. His first season would've gotten Jose sacked. His second and third season just scraped top 4. And recently, they've had a massive injection to the squad. And he also made mistakes (Karius) and were backed by the board to fix that mistake.

I agree that Jose need to work on getting more from the squad but clearly the board left him hanging with the job 2/3 done
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Thank you for your post! It's as close to the truth as I see it. Rose tinted glasses need to come off. We outperformed unbiased expectations last season. Our owners are being fickle and lacking vision and we need to continue a rebuild to instill harmony and a winning mentality again. City has for many years worked with txiki begiristain and the old Barca sporting team that once built and oversaw their golden years, pep didn't land into a foreign club and lucked out, they were doing the work diligently for years. We are like headless chicken looking for a goat to behead and sacrifice in comparison. Can't welcome that DOF soon enough, and hope it's a classy reputable person. We emplore a manager approach and things weird out if you hamstring the manager but don't have the DOF. We are just in a weird position and it's on the owners lack of sporting vision (or the wrong vision).
 
Jezpeza said:
Don’t remember a time when we had a squad as weak as 2 world class players, 3 or 4 good ones, a handful of average ones and a load of shite ones. People still delusional my thinking that shit like darmian and jones are going to improve to a point where they can take us near the title or that some other manager will get a load More out of them.

No pressure on places and no strength in depth.

Look at teams who decline and get relegated from the premiership. Say most recently Villa and Swansea. They kept sacking and hiring managers to shield the board from the fact that the recruited level of investment wasn’t there and the players out on the pitch were shite. Obviously i’m Not saying we are going to get relegated that would be ridiculous but I think the number one reason for decline is lack of investment. For an example nearer the top of the league look at arsenal after they brought the new stadium and couldn’t invest anymore. All the best players left for more ambitious clubs and they consistently underachieved, the underachievement being for the club, but not for the players they were putting out on the pitch. We bring in 581 million in revenue and sign Fred and Dalot. Where’s the money going?
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That's ridiculous, hes had plenty of funds available but has squandered most of it on average players and has shown no ability to work with the talent that was already there. If his solution as a manager is to just throw money on the problem, then he isn't a very good one.

What made Fergie the best in the world was his ability to make his teams much greater than the sum of its parts, and Mou looks to have lost tthat
 
pocco said:
I saw a post on here not long back from somebody quoting a study into football transfers, which basically concluded that around 40% of all transfers are considered successful. I'd say that's about right, at a guess.

What I'm reading on here is that Jose should be 100% successful and live or die by his signings. City allowed Pep to rectify his mistakes, but Jose isn't afforded that luxury, that's the difference that some can't comprehend. I remember Pep's first season at City and he was practically in Jose's shoes right now; I remember listening to football phone ins after the games and they were talking about Pep being sacked and not being able to play without world class players across the pitch. City then bought him world class players across the pitch and for his bench. Some to replace his original signings.

Obviously you don't need that to beat Brighton, but that's a stupid barometer for success, especially after two games. The issue is changing that 2nd place finish to a PL title, and that's where quality and depth comes in. Whilst we're fishing for a first choice RW, CB, LB etc, Pep has signed two or three in each position that would all start for us after weeding through one or two that didn't make it.
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I couldn't say it any better than this....
 
Coach V said:
Debunking the Mourinho Transfer Myth


DDG (Romero)

Boateng(Valencia) Bailly(Maguire) Toby(Yerry Mina) Sandro(Young)

Fred (Herrera) Matic (Felliani)

Perisic

Lingard(Mata) Sanchez Willian(Rashford)


Lukaku

Transfers Out: Pogba (150 Mill), Martial (70 Mill), Smalling/Jones (20 Mill), Shaw (40 Mill), Rojo (10 Mill), Darmian (15 Mill), Jones (20 Mill) = 325 Mill
Transfers In: Boateng (30 Mill), Sandro (40 Mill), Perisic (60 Mill), Toby (60 Mill), Maguire (60 Mill), Willian (60 Mill), Mina (35 Mill) = 345 Mill


Now this would be the Mourinho Team, if everything went to plan and if "ad-man" Woodward did his job... This team is way better than the current team and would definitely go toe to toe with City and Liverpool squad. I challenge all the Mourinho naysayers to come out tell me if they don't agree with this hypothetical squad being better than the current one. People would say, Boateng, Perisic etc. didn't want to come, the truth is the United Board were not as interested in acquiring them as their manager.

If you look at the players being sold to the players getting acquired its easy to see why Mourinho looks gloomy.

Balotelli Players: Martial, Pogba
(Players lacking passion for the team and want to leave - irrespective of who manages them, these players will shine 1 in 4 games and that too only if molly-coddled)
Mid Table Players: Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Darmian
Injured/Fading Players : Valencia, Young, Shaw, Mata



1. Obsession with Young Players: No club anywhere ideally wants to promote youth. They either have world class youths they purchased (Sane, Sterling for City) or are forced to play youth because they can't afford world class players (TAA /Gomez for Liverpool). If United decides to promote youth, they will end up like Arsenal. Players are in any team for their footballing merit not age. Also United are not doing that bad with youth in their team, atleast not as dire as the press and fans are led to believe. United has decent young players like Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Bailly, Mctominay. However, its not mandatory to play youth unless it merits based on footballing performance. What's the point on holding on to useless non-motivated young players who rarely perform. Selling Pogba for a Perisic or Martial for Willian makes perfect sense if it means united will challenge the likes of Liverpool/City.

2. Transfer Value: This should not even be a concern for United. They are earning in billions. If Woodward is talking about value for money in denying Willian/Toby move, its ridiculous that most fans support him over Mourinho. The guy makes billions for the Glazers from your money, he is denying those moves to save millions for them. Why would you guys care. If fans feel this way it will end up like Kroenke under Wenger. If Mourinho feels Willian will help united do way better this season, they should get him (Aka Van Persie under Fergie).

3. Mourinho Coaching/Style of play: Both the United board and the fans knew what they were getting when they hired Mourinho. Mourinho not coaching/improving players like Klopp/Pep is another joke. Managers can improve only those players that their playing style or system allows to improve. Most managers get players they understand their system will allow to grow and then try to develop them.

Klopp would always improve pacey attacking players as his system allows them to grow.
Improved: Salah, Mane, Firmino,
Failed: Lovren, Matip, Mignolet, Moreno
Rejected: Benteke, Sakho, Allen

Pep would always improve passing/possesion players
Improved: Jesus, KDB, Silva etc.
Failed: Bravo, Stones, Laporte
Rejected: Hart, Jovetic

Mourinho would always improve defensive/ defense minded players or Target Man strikers
Improved: Matic (Terry, Azpi) , Lukaku (Drogba, Costa etc.), Felliani, Young
Failed: Martial, Pogba
Rejected: Blind, Schneiderlin,

Its easy to see players like Sane or Sterling would have improved more under Klopp than Pep. Likewise, players like Coutinho, Lallan would shine more under Pep than Klopp. It's the same for Mourinho. You can't expect Pep/Klopp to make lovren/lukaku/Benteke world class just as much as you can't expect Mourinho to make Martial/Rashford world class. Their systems just don't allow them to express as much and grow.


From where I stand it is clear that the board/fans are not pulling in the same direction as the manager. If the United Board decided to hire Mourinho, they should let him get his players and the fans should support him. Blaming the manager inanely, blind-sighted by the success of the rivals is not a healthy way to look at things.
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What is this? And who told you Willian or Toby wouldn't have been poor if we had signed them? Are you some kind of "football magician" that knows it all? We all thought Sanchez was going to be fantastic for us but look how he turned out.

Your whole post is based on hypothesis and lacks realism.
 
Bobcat said:
That's ridiculous, hes had plenty of funds available but has squandered most of it on average players and has shown no ability to work with the talent that was already there. If his solution as a manager is to just throw money on the problem, then he isn't a very good one.

What made Fergie the best in the world was his ability to make his teams much greater than the sum of its parts, and Mou looks to have lost tthat
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Newsflash. Fergie retired.
New chapter. They did spend loads of money and a lot of it was squandered by LVG. Tough. New manager. New market.

Pogba 80 mil
Lukakau 80 mil
Mkhityran 30 mil
Bailly 30 mill
Lindelof 30 mil
Sanchez swap deal
Dalot 20 mil
Fred 50 mil
Matic 40mil

360 mil over 5 transfer windows equates to about 70 a window on average. Peanuts considering the size of our club and today’s market and the bag of shit squad he inherited.

City just spent 56 on Laporte as a 4th choice cb and 60 on Mahrez as 4th choice winger.

I don’t care if we sack mourinho, but I want one of these sack the manager crowd to explain the above figures, assess our piss poor squd and explain how A new manager is not going to have the same problems.
Can everyone shut the feck up about how a new manager is going to come and take a bag of shit containing darmian Valencia rojo Jones Shaw young mata and fellaini to a title?
It’s boring and delusional.
 
Jezpeza said:
Newsflash. Fergie retired.
New chapter. They did spend loads of money and a lot of it was squandered by LVG. Tough. New manager. New market.

Pogba 80 mil
Lukakau 80 mil
Mkhityran 30 mil
Bailly 30 mill
Lindelof 30 mil
Sanchez swap deal
Dalot 20 mil
Fred 50 mil
Matic 40mil

360 mil over 5 transfer windows equates to about 70 a window on average. Peanuts considering the size of our club and today’s market and the bag of shit squad he inherited.

City just spent 56 on Laporte as a 4th choice cb and 60 on Mahrez as 4th choice winger.

I don’t care if we sack mourinho, but I want one of these sack the manager crowd to explain the above figures, assess our piss poor squd and explain how A new manager is not going to have the same problems.
Can everyone shut the feck up about how a new manager is going to come and take a bag of shit containing darmian Valencia rojo Jones Shaw young mata and fellaini to a title?
It’s boring and delusional.
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:lol: What a way to twist. Around 380 million in 3 years, usually clubs don't spend in Jan window and Jose is very much against it.
 
Like him or loathe him, I think you have to respect Jose for being totally honest about where we are.

The 'heritage' speech about the squad he'd actually inherited was true.

The 'this season will be difficult if we don't buy more players' speech was true.

The 'Pogba needs to more disciplined in his midfield role' speech was true.

The 'Media treat us being 2nd last season as if we were relegated' speech was true.

You can trust what Jose says. As for Woodward and some players, they can't be trusted.
 
Jezpeza said:
Newsflash. Fergie retired.
New chapter. They did spend loads of money and a lot of it was squandered by LVG. Tough. New manager. New market.

Pogba 80 mil
Lukakau 80 mil
Mkhityran 30 mil
Bailly 30 mill
Lindelof 30 mil
Sanchez swap deal
Dalot 20 mil
Fred 50 mil
Matic 40mil

360 mil over 5 transfer windows equates to about 70 a window on average. Peanuts considering the size of our club and today’s market and the bag of shit squad he inherited.

City just spent 56 on Laporte as a 4th choice cb and 60 on Mahrez as 4th choice winger.

I don’t care if we sack mourinho, but I want one of these sack the manager crowd to explain the above figures, assess our piss poor squd and explain how A new manager is not going to have the same problems.
Can everyone shut the feck up about how a new manager is going to come and take a bag of shit containing darmian Valencia rojo Jones Shaw young mata and fellaini to a title?
It’s boring and delusional.
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Based on your work there, saying LVG squandered loads of money. How much did he spend on his five transfer windows on rubbish?
 
JK-27 said:
Like him or loathe him, I think you have to respect Jose for being totally honest about where we are.

The 'heritage' speech about the squad he'd actually inherited was true.

The 'this season will be difficult if we don't buy more players' speech was true.

The 'Pogba needs to more disciplined in his midfield role' speech was true.

The 'Media treat us being 2nd last season as if we were relegated' speech was true.

You can trust what Jose says. As for Woodward and some players, they can't be trusted.
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Spot fecking on.
 
roonster09 said:
:lol: What a way to twist. Around 380 million in 3 years, usually clubs don't spend in Jan window and Jose is very much against it.
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360. And you didn’t answer the rest of the post. You ignored the whole thing and desperately clutched at that. But whatever. Just another cry baby full of boring crap about the manager because we don’t win everything anymore and play like a PlayStation.
 
Jezpeza said:
360. And you didn’t answer the rest of the post. You ignored the whole thing and desperately clutched at that. But whatever. Just another cry baby full of boring crap about the manager because we don’t win everything anymore and play like a PlayStation.
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:lol: What nonsense is this, fecking hell.
 
JK-27 said:
Like him or loathe him, I think you have to respect Jose for being totally honest about where we are.

The 'heritage' speech about the squad he'd actually inherited was true.

The 'this season will be difficult if we don't buy more players' speech was true.

The 'Pogba needs to more disciplined in his midfield role' speech was true.

The 'Media treat us being 2nd last season as if we were relegated' speech was true.

You can trust what Jose says. As for Woodward and some players, they can't be trusted.
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This ^
 
The problem I have with pro-Mourinho arguments is that do you really need a world class 11 to beat Brighton? We lost to these small teams last season, and the argument that he needs more players doesnt stack up. Why can't we play cohesive attacking football against even small teams? How does a midfield of Pogba/Fred get dominated by nobodies? I appreciate to challenge City or Real/Barca we need better in defence and on the wings, but to routinely beat teams out of the top 6, surely our team is strong enough. That's where we're falling short, as last season showed (we had a very good record against the top 6).

We barely fashioned any chances against Brighton, who will probably lose 5-0 to liverpool tomorrow, and were lucky against Leicester. Meanwhile arsenal lost to chelsea, but carved them open almost at will and created chances for their strikers. It's got to be the tactics and instructions Jose's giving the players, I cant fathom how we cant even play football against shite teams, and it's been a constant problem under him since day 1.
 
Jezpeza said:
360. And you didn’t answer the rest of the post. You ignored the whole thing and desperately clutched at that. But whatever. Just another cry baby full of boring crap about the manager because we don’t win everything anymore and play like a PlayStation.
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Yeah. That's the problem. We are crying because we aren't winning EVERYTHING.
 
JK-27 said:
Like him or loathe him, I think you have to respect Jose for being totally honest about where we are.

The 'heritage' speech about the squad he'd actually inherited was true.

The 'this season will be difficult if we don't buy more players' speech was true.

The 'Pogba needs to more disciplined in his midfield role' speech was true.

The 'Media treat us being 2nd last season as if we were relegated' speech was true.

You can trust what Jose says. As for Woodward and some players, they can't be trusted.
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It's true - Woodward speaks with a fork tongue you can't trust him.

He said we can do things only other clubs dream of that was clearly a lie.
 
redNATION said:
The problem I have with pro-Mourinho arguments is that do you really need a world class 11 to beat Brighton? We lost to these small teams last season, and the argument that he needs more players doesnt stack up. Why can't we play cohesive attacking football against even small teams? How does a midfield of Pogba/Fred get dominated by nobodies? I appreciate to challenge City or Real/Barca we need better in defence and on the wings, but to routinely beat teams out of the top 6, surely our team is strong enough. That's where we're falling short, as last season showed (we had a very good record against the top 6).
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This really isn't how football works.

Tough away games are tough. We lost plenty under Ferguson and looked like shite. It's not a matter of not being better than them. Ferguson's sides always reacted though and that's what needs to happen now. This loss would be forgiven if we won 5/6 straight, but it's pretty unlikely given the state of the club right now.

There's problems from the top down.

I always expected us to look disjointed early on this season to be honest. Too many players never having played together, too many lacking fitness, one midfielder in a new position, another in a new league. Cohesiveness was never likely to be on the table.
 
I have read these posts over 100 times. Will summarize most opinions and see if we can make sense out of it.

There are 2 Types of Fans who want Mourinho Out here.

1. "I-Hate-Boring-Football" fans:

Some of the fans at the cafe baying for Mourinho's head, are used to watching United play fast paced attacking football under Sir Alex. Genuine football fans who love watching their team play good football. Mourinho's pragmatic defensive style is not just an insult, a sacrilege to their "United Way". The only reason they could tolerate Mourinho was because of the impact of the notorious Moyes/LVG era. These fans were not used to being so uninspiring and unsuccessful , the appointment of Mourinho was a relief for them more than anything. However, deep down their love for attacking football was always going to resurface once they got used to the respite of success and relevance under Mourinho. These fans have their soul attached to good football. Now that it's been a good 2 years of being back to the success levels of the Sir Alex era, these fans crave for the juicy attacking football they so associate with United. This all the more because their closest rivals, both City and Liverpool are pampered with the sort of football they envy most that they feel psychologically cornered watching United play the kind of tactically choking football they hate under Mourinho. They just want him out of the club to genuinely continue loving football again.

I can understand how they feel, and why they want Mourinho OUT so much (I am talking to you L1nk and so many others). My question is who after Mourinho? Pep is the only manager who can give what Sir Alex gave the United fans. Both style and substance. With anybody else, they will get style not substance. Say united do fire Mourinho, whoever comes next (Poch/Jardim/Zidane etc.) will definitely give you the attacking football. However in 2 years time the craving for attacking football will switch to a craving for competitive success. It will switch to the "Manager OUT" again, only this time the same people will be fighting here talking about how poor they were against top teams, hardly winning anything, with rivals grabbing all the trophies.

My solution to you is wait till a proven manager who can both win/play attacking football is available. (Say Tuchel Does well in PSG this season, or Say Pochettino takes Spurs closer to winning something, Or Jardim wins the EL or reaches a top Spot in CL etc..) Until then I would recommend to bear with the boring football as long as you are relevant. The Club of United statures can afford to play boring football for long but not become incompetent and irrelevant. This Mourinho will ensure. His track record of winning or fighting in the top spots is unquestionable. No matter how much you play it down, this United side is the closest it has been since Sir Alex retired to being successful and this is purely down to Mourinho. So don't go about unfairly slagging him over a 1 or 2 off day results (such as Brighton) and use it an excuse to conclude Mourinho is a bad/outdated/manager.
 
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The other type of Fans who want Mourinho Out:

2. Clueless fans:

This is the vast majority of the fans here. The simple minded fans spreading all the negativity with zero logic. The same fans who will switch their tune instantly and sing praise of Mourinho once United beat Tottenham this weekend. Readily jump into these threads moaning about something or the other. They truly don't understand why they want Mourinho out. They barely read what people say or listen to reason. They will say 100 reasons to disagree not one of which would make any meaning (condescending liverpool fan, nonsense/ more nonsense, new members, Mourinho doesnt know to attack, he is a bully, He is not developing youth, he is wasting money in transfers etc. etc.). These are the same people who destroy world democracies, the sheeps of the football world. The papers make money because of them. They are the reason why I go in search of decent forums to have normal football conversation. They populate every major football paper talking about everything meaningless and regurgitate the same crap. ( I am talking to You *****)

I will point some of the most absurd things shared by these people and truly beseech them to read all the posts because most of their concerns are already reasoned by a number of good posts in the forum(like that of Irish Jet, Jezpeza, JK-27, Miscemal, Bobcat, King Kana)

Mourinho doesn't know to attack :

Losing to Brighton, poor preseason etc, doesn't change the fact that he is a winner. Every team loses to some team at some point or the other. It doesnt matter what happens early in the season. It is what happens when the season ends. Manchester United were 2nd last season. You can't reach 2nd fluke-ing your way or defending all the time. If that's the case, a Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce side would be making it top 4 every single season. To say the Mourinho's team doesn't play football to win or attack is silly.

Mourinho's team don't attack the traditional eye pleasing, easy to understand way Pep/Klopp teams attack. Mourinho's team attacks through percentage football by creating chaos in the final third. Not every team can do that. Unlike what majority of you think It needs tactical discipline and great individual skill. There are 2 parts to Mourinho's team -

1. Absolute defense is not a joke: It needs extreme care and planning to nullify different types of oppositions, from long ball playing Conte, to counter attacking Klopp and possesion based Pep, Mourinho's team lay huge emphasis on how to neutralize oppositions.

2. Chaos football: I can go to great lengths to explain this, the fact is, Mourinho's team attack in an atypical way, were the ball is played at the oppositions final third in uncomfortable angles and irrespective of how skilled the defenders may be, there is always the possibility of nicking a goal. It breaches the midfield line and goes straight to the attacking third. From finding the target man, target man positioning off the ball, target man knocking zones, where to make the runs, guessing the 2nd balls, preventing the counter etc...

Though not a style for the football purists, it needs considerable tactics and individual skill to execute. It has a very high percentage of success and must not be dismissed as a simple hoof-ball

It's hard for normal fans to understand and appreciate this kind of football. But to say the guy doesn't know to attack (like a Tony Pulis or a Sam Allardyce side hoofing the ball to the tallest guy without purpose) is an insult to intelligence.

Mourinho spent lot of money:

This is true for his previous tenures at Chelsea, Inter (not so much) and Madrid. But at United he hardly has his team. A number of intelligent posts here address this aspect. I have also explained this in my previous posts in this thread. The fact is, this team is not completely a Mourinho team. I am not saying this to find excuses. Mourinho reached 2nd with this team. To say he didn't get best out of this team is being naive. This team can only go that far. If you truly want to challenge City, I say give him what he needs. I am certain he will come out firing. I don't expect much from United this season. They failed him in the Transfer Market. The least the fans could do is back him here in the cafe until he leaves.

Mourinho bullying young players:

Pogba and Martial are not the gods you are making them to be. If you are afraid that they might leave and it will be a big loss for united, you are mistaken. These players are truly the balotelli type. They are under-performing 19 year olds with a lot of cash and fame. Sir Alex would have thrown the whole kitchen sink at them to get them performing. Roy Keane would have stripped them naked for their antics. Don't side with Pogba (and the vile Railoa) and the AWOL Martial. Under any of the current top managers these 2 would be benched. To say Mourinho method is old school is again finding excuse without reason.

I am not supporting him blindly. I hardly like Mourinho. I am merely stating facts from purely a football perspective. Mourinho is a winner. Don't over react and give him time and judge him end of the season.
 
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As if a Liverpool supporter would join a United forum to write war and peace sized excerpts about how great Mourinho is.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
As if a Liverpool supporter would join a United forum to write war and peace sized excerpts about how great Mourinho is.
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Liverpool supporter who posted 6 posts and 5 of them about Jose. Are we having our Jonnowhite moment?
 
JK-27 said:
Like him or loathe him, I think you have to respect Jose for being totally honest about where we are.

The 'heritage' speech about the squad he'd actually inherited was true.

The 'this season will be difficult if we don't buy more players' speech was true.

The 'Pogba needs to more disciplined in his midfield role' speech was true.

The 'Media treat us being 2nd last season as if we were relegated' speech was true.

You can trust what Jose says. As for Woodward and some players, they can't be trusted.
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Word for word, spot on.
 
I found that funny. Last seaaon a Liverpool fan poated a whole thread, yes a whole thread in the main forum saying De Gea is the one saving Mourinho face every time. Everyone was agreeing on him and when I posted in this thread that I don't care what a Scouser thinks of United, someone quoted me and said " such a poor post, the opposition fans always provide better insight on the team from outside".!

Looks like the response has changed now and everyone suddenly agreed on my opinion because another Liverpool fan said the opposite ? Funny.
 
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