José looking to sign 6 players in summer - 2CM, LB, RB, W, CB [Times]

[0161_UNITED]

Woodward probably has a lot of respect for Mourinhos knowledge of all things related to football, but i’m guessing he’s looking at things from a business pov. Perhaps he’s looking at stuff like resell values? Might be why he seems to struggle getting players like Perisic, Toby, Willian?

Possibly, there’s certainly seems to have been a change in the club trying to get more when selling players recently, in my opinion.

As long as people are throwing theories around, here’s one of mine. Last Summer I had a conversation with a mate about our transfers and we got to wondering, why hadn’t we sold Darmian, Blind, and Rojo. My theory was that since they’re all internationals and a World Cup was coming up. If they performed well, we could get more for them. I actually think not having Italy and the Dutch even make the World Cup Might have thrown a spanner in the works. It’s also the only reason I could see why we’d extend Rojo, to get premiums for players in the World Cup.

 

[bosnian_red]

With the numbers being talked about regardint Maguire and Alderwerald, how come we haven't been seriously linked with that Skriniar chap from Inter who people here seem to think is potentially a generational defensive talent?

Think we were but it was rejected. Barca definitely went in for him but he didn't want to leave Inter right now and Inter didn't want to sell. He seems to want to stay there this year at least so it's a no go.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Woodward probably has a lot of respect for Mourinhos knowledge of all things related to football, but i’m guessing he’s looking at things from a business pov. Perhaps he’s looking at stuff like resell values? Might be why he seems to struggle getting players like Perisic, Toby, Willian?

If this is the case there should only be two outcomes:

1. Ed leaves - he realises he cannot do the job required of the manager and feels unable to promote the footballing side of United to it's best as described by the manager.
2. Ed sacks Jose - the man constantly complaining about Ed's inability to do the jobs Jose needs him to do. If Ed feels the investments of the manager aren't in the best interest of the club and therefore the business, then he should sever ties with him.

 

[Sandikan]

Every summer, there's wild threads like this that have pie in sky talk that we'll be buying 5 or 6 starter level players.
When was the last time that ever happened?

We might still end up with 5 signings, but that's including Grant and Dalot, two who surely will see between zero, and not much first team action this year.

 

[Sandikan]

Possibly, there’s certainly seems to have been a change in the club trying to get more when selling players recently, in my opinion.

As long as people are throwing theories around, here’s one of mine. Last Summer I had a conversation with a mate about our transfers and we got to wondering, why hadn’t we sold Darmian, Blind, and Rojo. My theory was that since they’re all internationals and a World Cup was coming up. If they performed well, we could get more for them. I actually think not having Italy and the Dutch even make the World Cup Might have thrown a spanner in the works. It’s also the only reason I could see why we’d extend Rojo, to get premiums for players in the World Cup.

With Rojo, it was odds on that's why we extended the contract.
It made no other sense, as he had a dreadful year with next to zero contribution to the cause last year. Obviously a lot down to the injury, but then when free of it, still didn't look anywhere near quality.

If we got anywhere near the £25-30m for him that has been bandied around, we'd have done sensationally.
It seems absolutely impossible that Wolves are going to be able to deal with his salary though, meaning even if they did pony up that sort of money, we'd probably have to put in 2-3m per the 3 years of contract he has left to make it up!

 

[Member 90887]

If this is the case there should only be two outcomes:

1. Ed leaves - he realises he cannot do the job required of the manager and feels unable to promote the footballing side of United to it's best as described by the manager.
2. Ed sacks Jose - the man constantly complaining about Ed's inability to do the jobs Jose needs him to do. If Ed feels the investments of the manager aren't in the best interest of the club and therefore the business, then he should sever ties with him.

You meant the Glazers right ?

 

[el3mel]

I can't see anyone to blame for this current summer ( current summer only ) except Ed. Absolute disaster of a market. Very similar to Moyes summer tbh. We look like to have a budget of 100m only this summer.

We have paid 70m and sold for 16m with Darmian and Rojo close to leaving, the first will be mostly for 20m and latter for 25m of reports are true, and if they both end up getting sold we would have sold for for about 61m while buying for 70m only. If both don't get sold our net spend will stay about 44m, fecking 44m.

These aren't funds supposed for a team to win the league. We have spent far more than that to just get a CL fecking qualifying spot under both LVG and Mourinho. Now when we have finished 2nd and have one team with a huge gap ahead of us we end up getting only one fecking player that will get into starting lineup, combined with a 3rd spot GK and a youngster who will be lucky to play 12 matches combined this season.

Comparing how we have spent this summer and Moyes one to the other 3 summers under LVG and Mourinho, only thing to deduced is the ultimate target for Ed is to keep the team in CL as much as possible. The current team is good enough to finish top 4 but will never win the league with City around. We will finish second or third but that's it.

Starting summer hoping to sign 5-6 players in the positions we are lacking and ending up praying to get an additional CB. Unacceptable on all levels.

 

[pocco]

Every summer, there's wild threads like this that have pie in sky talk that we'll be buying 5 or 6 starter level players.
When was the last time that ever happened?

We might still end up with 5 signings, but that's including Grant and Dalot, two who surely will see between zero, and not much first team action this year.

I'll be very surprised if Dalot doesn't see much game time. He sounds like he's a real talent and has already played at a good level.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

I'll be very surprised if Dalot doesn't see much game time. He sounds like he's a real talent and has already played at a good level.

He only played few senior games for FC porto first team so the general idea that he is good enough to replace Valencia is wrong. My mate from Portugal who watch every portugues player/coach all arouhnd the globe says he's the best talent since ronaldo, so I have high hopes for him but it doesn't mean that we should rush him into the first team and that he will be already a first teamer at 19, last time something lke this happened we had super talented da silva brothers and it also took them some time..

 

[roseguy64]

He only played few senior games for FC porto first team so the general idea that he is good enough to replace Valencia is wrong. My mate from Portugal who watch every portugues player/coach all arouhnd the globe says he's the best talent since ronaldo, so I have high hopes for him but it doesn't mean that we should rush him into the first team and that he will be already a first teamer at 19, last time something lke this happened we had super talented da silva brothers and it also took them some time..

You're ignoring that Valencia is now injury prone.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'll be very surprised if Dalot doesn't see much game time. He sounds like he's a real talent and has already played at a good level.

He's only 19 years old and made just 8 first team appearances for Porto. He was nothing more then a promising player for them who they were planning on giving first team action to this season after selling their original right back to Leicester. People shouldn't expect too much from him too soon. Might be very talented if what Mourinho says is true, but I wouldn't expect him to have anything more then a squad player role this season.

 

[Dennis Viollet]

Worst transfert Window Ever so far. 11 days left.

 

[Offsideagain]

Same every season, manager puts in a list, Woodward talks to the owners then he buys a few but struggles to get the big signing in. Meanwhile, Liverpool have gone mad and spent their transfer budget for the next three seasons. They will win the PL simply because they have spent the most dosh on quality. PL winners are the team that spends the most usually, Leicester being the exception of course.

 

[Mainoldo]

Same every season, manager puts in a list, Woodward talks to the owners then he buys a few but struggles to get the big signing in. Meanwhile, Liverpool have gone mad and spent their transfer budget for the next three seasons. They will win the PL simply because they have spent the most dosh on quality. PL winners are the team that spends the most usually, Leicester being the exception of course.

So when we went wild for 3 summers in a row why didn't we win the title?

 

[99withaflake]

Liverpool have gone mad and spent their transfer budget for the next three seasons. They will win the PL simply because they have spent the most dosh on quality.

You make Liverpool title favourites? I’d still say City have a much bette squad.
I do think they’ve improved even further though.

We need some late signings, which makes us look desperate and easy to be firm with when negotiating.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Worst transfert Window Ever so far. 11 days left.

I keep forgetting about the early closure. It was a terrible idea to do that on a World Cup year. Probably even worse to do it when the rest of Europe hasn't agreed to follow suit.

 

[macheda14]

Worst transfert Window Ever so far. 11 days left.

Umm I don't know if you remember post Ronaldo? Mame Biram Diouf, Michael Owen, Obertan and Valencia (who proved a great buy, but at the time..)

 

[Trizy]

So when we went wild for 3 summers in a row why didn't we win the title?

3 shite managers and...

Lindolf - failure
Darmian - failure
Mata - meh
Herrera - Good
Fellaini - failure
Shaw - failure
Bailey - Good
Ibrahimovic - Good
Pogba - Good
Rojo - Failure
Bastian - Failure
Blind - Failure
Di Maria - Failure
Mkhitaryan - Failure
Sanchez - Yet to prove anything
Fred - Yet to prove anything
Matic - Good.
Schneiderlin - Failure
Depay - Failure
Martial - Good
Romero - Good

£300m of failures (approx via. transferleague.co.uk) in 5 years.

Shocking amount of failures in 5 years. Not to mention we've spent loads of time trying to sign big named players who don't want to come to United.

 

[JPRouve]

Umm I don't know if you remember post Ronaldo? Mame Biram Diouf, Michael Owen, Obertan and Valencia (who proved a great buy, but at the time..)

I nominate Moyes+Fellaini, if that's not the worst transfer window, I don't know what is.

 

[Mainoldo]

3 shite managers and...

Lindolf - failure
Darmian - failure
Mata - meh
Herrera - Good
Fellaini - failure
Shaw - failure
Bailey - Good
Ibrahimovic - Good
Pogba - Good
Rojo - Failure
Bastian - Failure
Blind - Failure
Di Maria - Failure
Mkhitaryan - Failure
Sanchez - Yet to prove anything
Fred - Yet to prove anything
Matic - Good.
Schneiderlin - Failure
Depay - Failure
Martial - Good
Romero - Good
Lukaku - Good

£300m of failures (approx via. transferleague.co.uk) in 5 years.

Shocking amount of failures in 5 years. Not to mention we've spent loads of time trying to sign big named players who don't want to come to United.

Okay but who's fault is it? Added Lukaku for you. Not all Liverpool's signings have been a success and we will always chase big players i don't see anything wrong with that. They only time it's been a miss since Fergie left is when we tried to get Fabregas. Looking back, glad we never too.

 

[kirk buttercup]

Umm I don't know if you remember post Ronaldo? Mame Biram Diouf, Michael Owen, Obertan and Valencia (who proved a great buy, but at the time)

Yep that was Dinger of a transfer window , Or signings like Djemba Djemba seriously underwhelming . the landscape is very different these days the first I would know about a transfer was from teletext or Seeing a picture of our new signing with a scarf held above his head . The next 11 days is going to be a circus for all the bigger clubs

 

[pocco]

He's only 19 years old and made just 8 first team appearances for Porto. He was nothing more then a promising player for them who they were planning on giving first team action to this season after selling their original right back to Leicester. People shouldn't expect too much from him too soon. Might be very talented if what Mourinho says is true, but I wouldn't expect him to have anything more then a squad player role this season.

Yeah that's what I think, but the other poster stuff he'll barely get any any game time. I can see him getting sub appearances to begin with, cup games etc. If he's as good as we think it's going to be hard to hold him back too much. Let's just wait and see, but I can't see him barely being involved or playing in the u23s too much.

 

[2ndTouch]

Comparing how we have spent this summer and Moyes one to the other 3 summers under LVG and Mourinho, only thing to deduced is the ultimate target for Ed is to keep the team in CL as much as possible. The current team is good enough to finish top 4 but will never win the league with City around. We will finish second or third but that's it.

Well, your club is a business first and foremost. It's supposed to generate the utmost possible amount of revenue for its owners, who certainly hadn't been sleeping in Utd pyjamas during their childhood. In order to do so, the operation has to be kept within the optimal window of profitability.
As the opportunity costs for being at the very top of the hill have been driven up to levels way beyond this window by a competition whose prime driver is PR rather than profit, it is economically sound to not bother in the first place.
Basically, your club is the next Arsenal, at least in the way its being operated. And seeing how successful the Kroenke model has been over the past years, who could actually blame the Glazers?
The looming question of course, how long it's going to take Woody to find a suitable Wenger approximation, since I don't think Mou fits the bill...

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Yeah that's what I think, but the other poster stuff he'll barely get any any game time. I can see him getting sub appearances to begin with, cup games etc. If he's as good as we think it's going to be hard to hold him back too much. Let's just wait and see, but I can't see him barely being involved or playing in the u23s too much.

I can see Dalot playing himself into the starting 11. He's going to get plenty of chances this season with the concerns over Valencia's fitness and Darmian is most likely going.

 

[Trizy]

Okay but who's fault is it? Added Lukaku for you. Not all Liverpool's signings have been a success and we will always chase big players i don't see anything wrong with that. They only time it's been a miss since Fergie left is when we tried to get Fabregas. Looking back, glad we never too.

Clubs fault? We should have a vision of where we want to go. We've signed 3 completely different managers with contrasting styles. Each manager has left us with players that are completely shite/deadwood.

At the moment it's Jose's fault. We have too many good players for us to be as shit as we were/are. Maybe a DOF wouldn't be so bad. Someone who actually knows football and not America Businessmen or a fecking accountant in Woodward.

 

[André Dominguez]

It's a cloudy landscape, but Jose is painting it like a tropical storm. The current team is not that bad and you can make an intensive fitness training scheme that can put the incoming WC players in minimal conditions to compete.

OK, our transfer activity has been totally unprofessional when you see our rivals hiring expensive players and we have none to show. At least, if we have no possibility to hire end products, at least hire raw potential and gamble a bit.

 

[Mainoldo]

Clubs fault? We should have a vision of where we want to go. We've signed 3 completely different managers with contrasting styles. Each manager has left us with players that are completely shite/deadwood.

At the moment it's Jose's fault. We have too many good players for us to be as shit as we were/are. Maybe a DOF wouldn't be so bad. Someone who actually knows football and not America Businessmen or a fecking accountant in Woodward.

Agreed. It needs to be someone that gets the clubs values; a bit like how Ajax operate.

 

[macheda14]

I nominate Moyes+Fellaini, if that's not the worst transfer window, I don't know what is.

Ooooh yeh, you got me

 

[Enigma_87]

I nominate Moyes+Fellaini, if that's not the worst transfer window, I don't know what is.

Could've easily stopped at Moyes. Can't really get worse than that.

 

[royboy16]

Wasnt it only last summer on tour Ed said the squad was big enough once we signed Rom or to that effect which would mean no more signings ?We have made signings since Jan this year so we obviously need to off load more players which has proved to be difficult due to wages Id imagine.

 

[VeevaVee]

Every summer, there's wild threads like this that have pie in sky talk that we'll be buying 5 or 6 starter level players.
When was the last time that ever happened?

We might still end up with 5 signings, but that's including Grant and Dalot, two who surely will see between zero, and not much first team action this year.

Jose said it himself. He suggested the first team is 5 or 6 players off being good enough.
When you think about it, that's about correct. It's ridiculous that we're still in a situation where this is the case, especially when throughout Jose's tenure there's been players available that would fit into these spots and improve us.

 

[Valar Morghulis]

At least, if we have no possibility to hire end products, at least hire raw potential and gamble a bit.

That's what I would like to happen too. This club is known for trusting and nurturing potential. If we didn't want to splash 50/60 million on proven players, I would have been happy if we had at least decided to sign the best young players recommended by our scouts, similar to the Dalot signing, to fill the holes we have at LB and RW.

 

[Gopher Brown]

3 shite managers and...

Lindolf - failure
Darmian - failure
Mata - meh
Herrera - Good
Fellaini - failure
Shaw - failure
Bailey - Good
Ibrahimovic - Good
Pogba - Good
Rojo - Failure
Bastian - Failure
Blind - Failure
Di Maria - Failure
Mkhitaryan - Failure
Sanchez - Yet to prove anything
Fred - Yet to prove anything
Matic - Good.
Schneiderlin - Failure
Depay - Failure
Martial - Good
Romero - Good

£300m of failures (approx via. transferleague.co.uk) in 5 years.

Shocking amount of failures in 5 years. Not to mention we've spent loads of time trying to sign big named players who don't want to come to United.

I read a book called Soccernomics, which I’m sure many will be familiar with. They looked at transfers season after season and concluded that only about 40% of transfers can be counted as a success.

Your list has a 38% success rate. Maybe this is just how it goes.

 

[Sarni]

I keep forgetting about the early closure. It was a terrible idea to do that on a World Cup year. Probably even worse to do it when the rest of Europe hasn't agreed to follow suit.

Serie A and La Liga have the end of transfer deadline close to their start of season anyway, and their league starts 2-3 weeks after PL usually. They would never agree to have transfer window shut the day Premier League starts anyway because it makes zero sense.

 

[André Dominguez]

That's what I would like to happen too. This club is known for trusting and nurturing potential. If we didn't want to splash 50/60 million on proven players, I would have been happy if we had at least decided to sign young players highly rated by our scots similar to Dalot to fill the holes we have at LB and RW.

IMHO it makes total sense to approach the market that way. Hiring end products to EPL clubs or top clubs from Spain/France/Italy etc will make the transfer price skyrocket.

We can antecipate those clubs in bringing top prospects from those countries and get them at lower prices. If they flop, you didn't loose that much money and that player will still have market at their home countries (Borini was transfered to Milan )

 

[GBBQ]

I read a book called Soccernomics, which I’m sure many will be familiar with. They looked at transfers season after season and concluded that only about 40% of transfers can be counted as a success.

Your list has a 38% success rate. Maybe this is just how it goes.

But wouldn't that overall success rate be driven by lower teams who have to take punts in order to unearth a hidden gem. I don't think with United's resources, scouting network and general attractiveness that we should fall into the market average for signings working out.

 

[André Dominguez]

Why aren't we trying Max Meyer? I'm sure the UEFA court wont give Schalke 04 that big fee.

 

[Raw]

Why aren't we trying Max Meyer? I'm sure the UEFA court wont give Schalke 04 that big fee.

Another attacking midfielder?

 

[VanGaalyTime]

3 shite managers and...

Lindolf - failure
Darmian - failure
Mata - meh
Herrera - Good
Fellaini - failure
Shaw - failure
Bailey - Good
Ibrahimovic - Good
Pogba - Good
Rojo - Failure
Bastian - Failure
Blind - Failure
Di Maria - Failure
Mkhitaryan - Failure
Sanchez - Yet to prove anything
Fred - Yet to prove anything
Matic - Good.
Schneiderlin - Failure
Depay - Failure
Martial - Good
Romero - Good

£300m of failures (approx via. transferleague.co.uk) in 5 years.

Shocking amount of failures in 5 years. Not to mention we've spent loads of time trying to sign big named players who don't want to come to United.

We also sold Di Maria, Blind, and Depay for the same amounts we paid. So not a huge expenditure on them other than wages and time obviously. I don't class Lindelof as a failure just yet. Also a bit harsh on Fellaini. LVG's signings were poor and the less said about Moyes the better, but I think Mou has generally done well transfer-wise.

 

[Gopher Brown]

But wouldn't that overall success rate be driven by lower teams who have to take punts in order to unearth a hidden gem. I don't think with United's resources, scouting network and general attractiveness that we should fall into the market average for signings working out.

Every signing is still a risk - it could even be argued that ‘finished articles’ are more of a risk, because someone like Sanchez and di Maria just can’t/couldn’t adapt to our manner of playing.