Evans or Jones plus £20m-£25m. It makes sense.
I'd love us to swipe him from under the noses of Mourinho, it would piss him off massively.
I'd love us to swipe him from under the noses of Mourinho, it would piss him off massively.
John Stones | Everton say they will reject all bids
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It doesn't. I am one of the biggest criticers of Jones, but he is still better than Stones. Stones will become better in time, but no point in giving up on Jones so early.
Evans + that sum would eb a good transfer though.
If McNair was a regular at Aston Villa for instance at his age everyone would be calling for us to sign him. The grass is always greener on the other side it seems, but reality is different. People can say how they think Stones is much better than what we have, but how many United fans watch him closely week in and week out? How many are only aware of his strengths and only notice his star performances? Once we sign Stones we'll immediately notice things about his game that we didn't before (as an Everton player) and some people will jump to conclusions. Its always nice to admire players from afar
Not to mention that we'll probably jerk a new acquisition around the same way we did with Evans and Jones.
I still maintain that between Smalling, Jones, Evans, McNair, Rojo and Blind we're all set for years to come. Just select a duo and play them consistently
Err is this Jones thing an actual report/rumour or just a suggestion on here? They can have Evans but not Jones (and I'm quite a big critic of his but he's very young still).
Okay, let Chelsea sign him.
Evans plus cash doesn't make much sense for me. Blind and Smalling are currently first choice pairings. Second choice right now is Jones and Rojo pairing, which isn't as bad as people make it seem. Where does Stones fit in all this. We don't need a CB this season. Let's give our Centre Backs one more solid year and then see if an upgrade is needed.
Except independent observers who do watch him week in, week out have him down as a future England lynchpin.
Thing is, as we have seen over recent seasons, great CB's are hard to come by. I think we will regret not signing Stones. The kid is special.
That means a lot considering young English players are never over-hyped.
Everyone's overhyped. You think Maureen is basing his bid on what the papers say?
I have no idea what Jose is thinking.. but your point about him being rated highly in England doesnt mean much.
It was matic imo.
It's annoying when people say this because McNair hasn't looked as good as Stones has at all.
Ok, so we'll just ignore anyone who gets universally lauded for their performances if they're English.
Maybe. But England International defenders (especially centre backs) have been high quality for yonks.
Stones might still be developing but he's already as good as these experienced defenders marshalling defences. The market for these experienced blokes you talking really is thin at this point of time, especially at the level we're talking about.
Jones isn't gonna be a star. His ability on the ball is the least of his problems. His problem is that his defending is really poor at this stage. His reading of the game especially. He's far to reactive to be a class centre half and he's mediocre in the air.
Chelsea couldn't stirng passes together let alone test McNair's defensive prowess. In matches we have seen it tested he's shown that he's not a natural at it at all. He's like chambers at arsenal, great with the ball, but definitely not a defender.
Smalling is class, everyone should agree with that by now. For 30mil quid stones would be an astute signing. He's amazing with the ball and he can actually defend. Reads the game really well and has great pace. His footwork when defender is assured. The problem as we've found out is that he's right footed, so theoretically Laporte is probably who we should be looking at seeing as they both gonna go for a similar price and are a similar standard of player.
Universally? A young CB who wants out and is drawing the attention all of 1 club... and gets no mention outside England.. universally lauded for sure.
I dont think he is bad.. but how many world class, or even close to it, players have England produced in the last decade? I cant think of any.. Not one.
How many have been labeled the next big thing in England.. many.
He isnt world class yet... people are still betting on potential.. and the track record of young overhyped english players realizing their potential isnt exactly great.
Who was the last great english defender? Are we counting Smalling? Surely not Cahill..
So Rio and Terry then? or am I missing someone really obvious?
Rio and Terry (the most recent two) are winding down, and we're due one.
I didn't say we've had an endless supply.
I agree. He had a few good home games mainly against West Ham and Everton. But he had a lot of dodgy games too and I think he needs to go out on loan.
Crazy to say McNair is better. If he was then a lot of premier league teams would be begging us for a loan.
I take it you avidly read all the foreign press by that comment then. He's drawn the attention of more than one big club that's for sure. And the one club you know about for certain happen to be the Champions and could buy pretty much anyone. So because Bayern or Madrid aren't in for him he's overhyped? English players are overpriced, because this is the richest league. That doesn't always mean they are overhyped. Stones has been consistently excellent for a while now, putting many more experienced defenders to shame.
We still haven't seen enough of McNair to make an accurate judgement though. I remember how hyped John O'Shea was when he first arrived on the scene with some excellent performances but as it turned out he was a mid-table CB. The same could easily be the case with McNair too, we just don't know.
Stones, on the other hand, has had a lot more regular PL football for us to judge him on and has looked outstanding, which is why neutral observers rate him so highly.
If McNair was a regular for Villa we may indeed be calling for his signature. Or we might see that he isn't up to standard. It's wrong to just assume our young talents players would automatically be superstars if they played regularly for lesser teams. Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck were also built up in similar ways at various points because we're naturally biased towards our own players.
He was outstanding against City the other day. As in, to the point of almost taking the piss.
No he hasnt. He has good games and he makes mistakes.. unless you put the qualifier about him being excellent for his age... which then takes it back to my point about paying for potential and not the finished product.. and that potential might or might not be realized. ( I havent seen every game he has played in but have seen a few.)
Standing out while playing alongside Jagielka and Distin doesnt prove anything. He was a regular in a side that was very poor defensively last season.
He obviously isnt going to be a dud.. but there is no question he is overrated.. Even if he was Englands best.. which he isnt, that wouldnt be saying much. ( not counting Terry who is almost done)
Clubs need English players. Getting someone who can be in the squad for many years and contribute, even as a squad player, is a decent investment for top clubs.. so it makes sense from Chelsea's point of view.
Anyway.. I'm out of this thread. My point was him being rated highly by the English media doesnt mean much and I stand by that.
Then the logical thing would be to buy him and loan him back to Everton. That would be a deal that all parties are happy with (Except maybe Stones himself who might have had his eye on a big PL move).
I've been saying this for a few seasons. This lad is really good. If he fulfills his early promise he will be a great investment for any club.
PS:He his already capable of playing for a top 4 team, and will only get better.
PS:He his already capable of playing for a top 4 team, and will only get better.
Clubs would not spend so much and then send him out on loan.
I wouldn't be happy with that as it would stall the development of any CB we would get to replace Stones, it would be developing Stones for the buying club, and it would be silly to do that instead of holding out until next season when his value could increase.
Stones will turn out to be the best English centre half around. Jones will be another promising talent that didn't hit the heights, mainly due to his lack of Football intelligence.
Would you not make a move for Van Dijk from under Southamptons noses?
is he better than Zouma? No
will he start over Terry or Cahill? No
then why does he want to go there?
will he start over Terry or Cahill? No
then why does he want to go there?
I don't think it's his intelligence. I personally think has composure issues, and plays with his head down.
We need to hijack this deal, otherwise we will look like mugs. Has the club no honour and pride? We need to give them one back for Pedro alone, and we would solve our CB woes for years.
I think his intelligence on the football pitch is a serious drawback myself. Stones potential is on a different planet.
United have also not handled Jones well. He was being groomed as a utility player than an actual centre back.
You are probably right. He is one for the future, but I doubt van Gaal is right now thinking of the future. He has the final say after all and me thinks he won't show interest in Stones.
Somebody seems to be listening!!!As i said earlier in this thread, Jones + £ for Stones pls
Excellent post.
good point....i wonder how much Van Gaal's contract situation - two years left - has affected his decision making when developing the squad
Is that opinion or rumoured?
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