Why? He doesn't do the standard defensive stuff well enough. We once said this about a young Phil Jones.....
John Stones | Done Deal
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Well Joe Hart is the "best goalkeeper in the world" remember, so it would be awkward to now argue he wouldn't get into a team seeing as it's technically impossible for anyone in his position to be as good as him.
Also Wilshere has previously been described as someone who could "walk into any team"...although probably more accurate to say he could be carried into it on a stretcher.
Also Adam Lallana.
Although in all seriousness none of them. Not even Shaw...he's only looked good for about 6 games of the last two years. Although obviously not his fault that he got injured, but he has to come back and prove how he was playing before that wasn't just a flash in the pan.
It is nice to have some new players in there who've actually been performing for their clubs and offer something a bit different...but Stones isn't even one of those. He's been dogshite all season and is in the squad because back at the start of the season people randomly decided he was amazing without even bothering to watch him play. I'm also willing to bet he'd be a better player now and would have had a better season if people hadn't drummed into his head that he was already amazing.
It did kinda feel like that. I think it was probably because he played 20+ games at CB at the tender age of 20 and came from the lower divisionsThis is laughable. He has not been excellent...he's been garbage and its down to him and him alone!
I have always disliked Stones. Always felt he takes far too many risks for a defender. But I think he is now being underrated. He is a much better player(not defender) than he is being potrayed as in last few months. And that is largely due to Martinez. I genuinely doubt they ever worked on the defence. Under a defensive manager he can atleast reach ability to play for a regular top 7 side.
Would I want Utd to sign him? Ofcourse No, but for teams like West Ham, even Everton, he is a good player.
Actually, I'd like to see a manager try him at CDM. Have a feeling his abilities are more suited for that position
Would I want Utd to sign him? Ofcourse No, but for teams like West Ham, even Everton, he is a good player.
Actually, I'd like to see a manager try him at CDM. Have a feeling his abilities are more suited for that position
The English David Luiz
Both Evans and Jones were far better prospects. They just couldn't/can't keep fit.
He hasn't had a good season, but at just 21 he's not going to have that consistency to his game yet, few players do at that age and it will only come with experience.
He has had games where he has looked mature beyond his years. He has had some brain farts this season but I'm sure Rio was exactly the same at his age.
I think he would improve massively playing and training with a higher level of player week in week out.
Eyebrows were raised when we paid the better part of 30 million for Ferdinand, that was more than 10 years ago so god knows what the equivalent would be today.
He has had games where he has looked mature beyond his years. He has had some brain farts this season but I'm sure Rio was exactly the same at his age.
I think he would improve massively playing and training with a higher level of player week in week out.
Eyebrows were raised when we paid the better part of 30 million for Ferdinand, that was more than 10 years ago so god knows what the equivalent would be today.
Yeah, but what's the point to sign another player who isnt up to our standard or the standards of title challengers. If we want to improve on Blind, let's improve on Blind, and buy a genuine top class defender. Not buy another player who isnt good enough but could be some day. If we had Rio-Vidic at this moment, I'd be glad to buy Stones and let him develop at us and fill one of their boots someday. For now, I think we have enough players with potential who arent good enough at the moment for the ambitions the club has.
Can you name a top class defender who wouldn't be a risk in adapting to the premier league?
He's had a poor season but the level of vitriol aimed at a 21 year old CB is bizarre, I see everyone that thinks he has talent is wrong, which must include our manager who tried to buy him last summer.
Without the goals!
I think he is a talent, but he needs a real strong defender next to him. I just worry that both him and Smalling have mistakes in them. Depending how long England are in the Euros will delay them joining up with United pre-season.
I can't think of many CB's these days that don't seem to have an error in them, maybe Bonucci and Godin who are very oldschool. The thing is the market isn't ripe with options and I'd personally rather we went English than buy in someone like Manolas.
Basically someone to do the defending for him.
Everyone is a risk, even Di Maria failed here, but I can name players who are lesser risks than Stones.
This season was Smalling's break through season. We need to keep that in mind and partner him with someone who has an old head or is experienced.
Stones is definitely not that player. It made sense for mourinho to buy him at Chelsea because he had Terry and Cahill to pair Stones with. But at United it doesn't make sense. We need an experienced player not neccesarily in terms of age but in terms of playing in the CL and starting games regularly.
Stones is definitely not that player. It made sense for mourinho to buy him at Chelsea because he had Terry and Cahill to pair Stones with. But at United it doesn't make sense. We need an experienced player not neccesarily in terms of age but in terms of playing in the CL and starting games regularly.
A lot of people have said that Stones is a midfielder. That seems to happen a lot. Instead of nurturing that side of him, they are trying to make him into a ball playing CB. Most of the best ball playing CB's are defenders first.
It would be like comparing Giggs to Park
David Luiz is better
Ok, which ones? I think Stones' age needs to be appreciated together with the poor manager he operated under FWIW.
The obvious ones as Varane, Koulibaly, Manolas, Mustafi, Umtiti, all young defenders who have proven far more than Stones ever has. But every player is a risk. Even PL-proven players are risks, Schneiderlin was supposed to be close to world class if you's believe the people here, he's been bang average this season, Stones isnt even PL-proven. But not only would he be a risky buy for that price, he just hasnt shown that he's good enough for a team willing to be title challengers. He's still just a prospect, I dont think we need more of those. A player like Shaw was different, he showed that he had great promise, but he also showed that he was good enough to already play for Man United.
Varane is not available, so we can't throw him into the mix.
Manolas, Koulibaly and Umtiti all play in far lesser leagues than the Premier League. In reality, they haven't proven anything over Stones.
Yes, all players are a risk - but buying players from lesser leagues increases that risk. Mustafi is a good defender form what I've heard, but I haven't seen him enough to comment. Stones had a poor season but his talent is obvious. Its just a shame Everton were terribly managed (and the same logic goes to Schneiderlin).
He also hasn't been great in any season tbh, although I do think he has some talent, it seems to be far overblown. £40m for him is a bit of a joke
The same figure is a joke for the likes of Manolas.
FWIW I don't think we should go of any of the listed names, and would prefer us break the bank for an experienced beast like Godin. Its just a shame there is too few of them.
A lot of the criticism at him is ignoring that he had Martinez as his manager who knows next to nothing about defending... So it's a bit harsh to say the least. Mourinho would be the perfect manager to make Smalling, Stones and Shaw part of a brilliant back 4. Just a right back needed in there to complete it, but I'd definitely be happy if we got him in.
Except that figure is not quoted for Manolas
Think I read it somewhere in the tweets section a while ago.
http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/26/manchester-united-held-talks-over-kostas-manolas-transfer-5906427/
He's 8 years older ffs, he should be
Stones has now become underrated on this forum. Crazy
Didn't have a good season but if a manager like Mourinho wants him then surely there has to be some talent in there.
I don't under rate him, I think he is a good player, just that he was way over hyped.
He hasn't shown for me he will be a top defender just yet that is all. I also find it incredible that his failure has been blamed on Martinez who managed him the season before when everyone was raving about him.
Every player has a price, far lesser leagues? Why overrate the PL so hugely, the Serie A isnt far lesser than the PL and is actually catching up on it. Then again, they have shown to be one of the best defenders in their respective leagues, while Stones has actually shown close to nothing.
Serie A is still a fair bit off Premier League, let's not try to avoid that. The relegation and midtable clubs are of a lower standard. There is a reason why the likes of Evra can be poor in their final premier league years and blossom once more in Italy. Dani Alves made a smart move too.
Stones hasn't shown "close to nothing", let's not get carried away there too. He had a poor season but the talent in him is obvious. He's shown it in patches. As previously mentioned, his bad habits can be trained out of him at such a young age.
Yeah, thats why Evra did so poorly in the CL as well for Juventus (not). Evra has regained form and has even been good for France.
He never had long-during patches where he looked like one of the top defenders in the league, he's shown some promise but hasnt shown the standard to get himself a move to United imo, or atleast I hope the bar is higher.
I want him. Mourinho can polish him up.
Teach him basic concept of defending? Debatable.
Hope that we somehow get Varane off those Madrid cnuts.
Evra was finished in the Premier League, that much is obvious. The ease of playing for far and away the best team by way of quality in an easier league meant he can preserve his form for big games better.
I don't know why you're trying to claim Serie A is on a similar level of quality to the Premier League, its blatantly at a lower level.
Yes, I agree Stones hasn't had a prolonged patch where he looked like a top defender, but he started off being shafted at RB for a while and at 22 the talent in him as a potential top class centre back is there. Its actually quite comparable to Smalling for us 4 years ago.
I agree, I was one of a few who said he had a lot to learn through the hyperbole and got criticised and now I find myself defending him. It's a bit of the DDG scenario when he first came. Is Stones worth £40m? No but could he be worth signing? Without doubt. I'd be happy with him here he's potentially the Best English centre half around for the next decade.
If he was finished in the PL, how come he still does well in the CL? Defensively he wasnt of the required standard anymore, but attackingly still of very high value, as he still is at the moment. Juventus fans are actually very happy with him, a team stronger than any in the PL now.
I dont really agree, it's true that Smalling hasnt really fulfilled his promise until now, but from the start, when Smalling was played CB you could see how good he is, I though he was brilliant everytime he played, but then again I'm a huge Smalling fan. But even if he has similar promise, can we afford to wait for him to grow into the position and standard and meanwhile try to be title challengers, and have European relevance? If we'd still be in transition period, fine, but arent the expectarions higher than ever, hence the employment of Jose Mourinho, a winner? If we are to compete for trophies, we need far better than Stones. He'd be a minor or even no improvement on Blind as CB at the moment, that'd be pointless.
Because he plays vs a lower standard most weeks in the year, which is physically less demanding and thereby allowing himself to condition for the Champions League fixtures easier. FWIW I recall Evra being caught out of position a few times in Champions League campaigns gone by so he's not how he once was.
I hate this argument about full backs praised for their attacks to compensate for poor defensive mistakes. He's not the same defensively and thats the primary role of a defender whether a full back or centre back.
Smalling certianly wasn't brilliant every time at CB. He had patches where he was very poor, actually. Its why Evans went ahead of him to partner Vidic/Rio in Fergie's last season IIRC. Smalling at 22 is very comparable to Stones now I feel. Patches of really poor play but the talent is there. You know its inevitable he'l find his feet with the right manager.
WRT your "we are not in transition, we need far better" point - it rules out your entire list of targets earlier, because there is no established top class centre back around to fill those boots. Ramos would be great, but he won't come now. Real won't let Varane go either. I suppose Laporte would be a great shout, but he's City bound and there is question marks over his long term fitness anyway.
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