John Stones | Done Deal

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My guess is that Varane will stay in Madrid and Gimenes in Atlético. It seems that Laporte will sign for City.

So, Stones is a strong possibility... Who do you prefer between Manolas, Koulibaly, Mustafi and Stones?
 
Fer said:
My guess is that Varane will stay in Madrid and Gimenes in Atlético. It seems that Laporte will sign for City.

So, Stones is a strong possibility... Who do you prefer between Manolas, Koulibaly, Mustafi and Stones?
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In order:
Koulibaly, Mustafi, Manolas, Stones. Either one of the first three would suffice, but Stones I do not rate at all.
 
goin4glory said:
25m? They rejected 35m from Chelsea.
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Last season he was poor. I don't think any club would actually pay the same amount or even if they (Chelsea or us) do surely Everton will accept without a fuss like last season.
 
prath92 said:
Last season he was poor. I don't think any club would actually pay the same amount or even if they (Chelsea or us) do surely Everton will accept without a fuss like last season.
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Everton were awful because Martinez is a fraud. Stones is still an excellent centre back.
 
I think he has immense potential and we should sign him if available. Good young English players aren't exactly a dime a dozen. He lost his way under a manager who is not known for his defensive nous and needs someone like Jose at this stage of his career to progress and realize his potential.
 
He's not a very good defender. Shows glimpses of decent defensive ability but his positional awareness is genuinely awful and he is constantly at fault for either individual or tactical defensive errors (part of this is down to Martinez's set-up but nowhere near as much as some claim, he's made many mistakes which are solely his fault and had no relation to the defensive system he played in). Honestly, I wouldn't bother with him, but if any manager will improve him it's Mourinho. If he comes here under Jose he'll do well. If he goes anywhere else (and realistically City is probably the only other option) he'll definitely flop imo. That being said, there's only interest in him because he's English and would meet the home grown quota. This would be a far greater concern at Chelsea than at United. Varane, Marquinhos, and Manolas, all of whom we've also been linked with, are far superior centre backs. Not saying he wouldn't work out if we sign him, he probably would, but there is far better value for money, and there is far better ability available too. Despite his injury concerns, Varane would still probably be my first choice. Manolas would be a good back-up option. Marquinhos could struggle to adapt to the Premier League but I do rate him. Ultimately, I think Stones is the most likely though. If that is the case, I hope we sign another cb also to alleviate some of the pressure that would be on Stones.
 
prath92 said:
Martinez doesn't ask him to not defend properly. He wasn't getting the basics right.
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Everton do no work on set peices and Martinez spends all his time on working with the ball. Before they where an incredibly hard working unit without possession but now it's laughable. Every defender in the league will look awful playing with no protection and in a high line, Koscielny hasn't been recognised as the best CB in the league for the last few years because of this when he's hands down the best.
 
I don't see what all the fuss is about at the moment.

He is more Johnny Evans than Rio Ferdinand.

A big money move to a big club will destroy him I think.
 
If we're insistent on keeping Smalling, I'd like him here. Think the two could have good chemistry.

But... I think we should sell Smalling off and get someone like Varane in. Smalling and Varane wouldn't be a good partnership I don't think. Varane and an experienced "tough" defender is what we need to challenge in Europe. Smalling always has a mistake in him. Nearly cost us the FA Cup final with his own stupidity.

I wouldn't trust him against the likes of Barca and Real in Europe.
 
He's far better than given credit for here, comparing him to Evans is a little ridiculous.
 
I think mourinho can turn smalling and stones into a challenging defensive duo. Im interested to see who will play rb. Im not sure darmian is the answer there.
 
Taxx said:
Owen is a massive fan of Stones, and says we can't name 3 mistakes that Stones has done over the season. Come on, Caf, surely there must be three that we can list up?
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John Stones could walk into Barca...maybe he is right. Barcelona made some terrible transfers at the back in recent times. Bought Vermaelen and Mathieu and they're still playing Mascherano at the back. Perhaps he could 'walk' into Barcelona, but they don't exactly set the benchmark for good transfers in recent years do they?
 
It would have been hard for anyone to look good in Everton's defence this season, especially a guy still learning his trade, but he's clearly very talented. He also had a transfer request turned down in the summer, which is bound to have some effect.

I still think with the right coaching and the right players around him he'll be a quality player. Definitely one I wouldn't mind seeing here.

People used to say similar stuff about Rio when he was around the same age: tidy on the ball but "can't sense danger" or some bollocks like that, and he turned out alright.
 
goin4glory said:
Everton do no work on set peices and Martinez spends all his time on working with the ball. Before they where an incredibly hard working unit without possession but now it's laughable. Every defender in the league will look awful playing with no protection and in a high line, Koscielny hasn't been recognised as the best CB in the league for the last few years because of this when he's hands down the best.
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That doesn't account for him losing tackles, mistiming tackles, not reading passes etc. Martinez was poor but he didn't tell him to not defend. He can't even get the basics right.
 
ivaldo said:
He's far better than given credit for here, comparing him to Evans is a little ridiculous.
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I rate Stones, but Evans at 21 was an excellent defender, he just didn't progress as we all hoped due to mental fragility and injuries. Stones has yet to be as good as Evans was IMO, he has made countless of mistakes this past term. I might be alone on this, but I wouldn't like us to spend the best part of £40m on him. He should prove himself at Everton for another season before making the step up.
 
mr.suave said:
It would have been hard for anyone to look good in Everton's defence this season, especially a guy still learning his trade, but he's clearly very talented. He also had a transfer request turned down in the summer, which is bound to have some effect.

I still think with the right coaching and the right players around him he'll be a quality player. Definitely one I wouldn't mind seeing here.

People used to say similar stuff about Rio when he was around the same age: tidy on the ball but "can't sense danger" or some bollocks like that, and he turned out alright.
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Stones doesn't seem to have the simplest of instincts that most defenders have. When Martial scored to get us in the FA cup final, he literally just stood there and began running about second too late before Martial was already away. Countless times in that match he almost cost his team. Surely if we are looking for someone to improve out defence we would want to get someone who can both actually DEFEND and pass the ball properly?
 
Stones might turn out to be a good defender, even a great one. Would I want to pair him with Chris Smalling and have him guiding him? No way. If we signed Stones he would need an experienced head next to him to learn from and keep him on his toes. Those two together at the moment will be watching games from behind your hands. The euros will show how good these two are. It might lift Jose's spirits or it might give him another problem to deal with.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Stones might turn out to be a good defender, even a great one. Would I want to pair him with Chris Smalling and have him guiding him? No way. If we signed Stones he would need an experienced head next to him to learn from and keep him on his toes. Those two together at the moment will be watching games from behind your hands. The euros will show how good these two are. It might lift Jose's spirits or it might give him another problem to deal with.
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Smalling has had the experience of being mentored by Vidic/Rio before partnering them alongside Evans/Jones etc.

He is 26 years old, and had what 6 seasons with us? I think that's sufficient experience to mentor Stones. Not sure who I can think of that is certainly going to be better by way of experience.
 
VP89 said:
Smalling has had the experience of being mentored by Vidic/Rio before partnering them alongside Evans/Jones etc.

He is 26 years old, and had what 6 seasons with us? I think that's sufficient experience to mentor Stones. Not sure who I can think of that is certainly going to be better by way of experience.
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Then I would have expected Smalling to be better. The euros, as I said will show us a lot. He needs to be a leader in that defence.
 
TitusCrumble said:
Stones doesn't seem to have the simplest of instincts that most defenders have. When Martial scored to get us in the FA cup final, he literally just stood there and began running about second too late before Martial was already away. Countless times in that match he almost cost his team. Surely if we are looking for someone to improve out defence we would want to get someone who can both actually DEFEND and pass the ball properly?
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Yeah I hear that. He's been making those kinds of mistakes ever since he first came into the side, but until recently most people didn't pay them much attention. But then I've also seem put in performances where he's looked like an extremely competent defender with a proper understanding of the fundamentals of defending.

He's had a bad season, no doubt, but I honestly believe all the raw materials are there. If he can be guided properly, he'll end up a top defender. It's defo a gamble, especially for the money that's being talked about, but I reckon he'll come good.
 
mr.suave said:
People used to say similar stuff about Rio when he was around the same age: tidy on the ball but "can't sense danger" or some bollocks like that, and he turned out alright.
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No sane person has ever said that about Rio. His reading of the game has always been exceptional. His concentration went missing from time to time in his younger years. He came to United though off the back of a tremendous WC for England in 2002. Maybe Stones does the same this summer, we'll see.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Then I would have expected Smalling to be better. The euros, as I said will show us a lot. He needs to be a leader in that defence.
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I genuinely think Smalling is a leader. He had some niggling injuries, and looks to have got over them. The second half of last season up until now is the first time I think he's managed to have a prolonged run of games together. He's proven to be quite the complete centre back - and again, I'd struggle to find experience that's better and of a higher established quality.

What do you reckon? Any names that you feel that would partner/mentor Stones better?
 
I think Stones gets a bit of a bad rep from being in a poor defence where he was expected to be the most experienced at 21. I think with that kind of pressure, he was naturally going to make mistakes. Our defence is actually pretty good, so if we did get him, I think we'd be a tighter unit which would make him better defensively. For example, less room to run out of position, more people covering the spaces behind, etc.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Stones might turn out to be a good defender, even a great one. Would I want to pair him with Chris Smalling and have him guiding him? No way. If we signed Stones he would need an experienced head next to him to learn from and keep him on his toes. Those two together at the moment will be watching games from behind your hands. The euros will show how good these two are. It might lift Jose's spirits or it might give him another problem to deal with.
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My worry is Smalling isn't a leader. Stones doesn't look like one. De Gea isn't really one nor is Shaw.

When you look at our best defences they all had leaders. 99 you had Schmeichel, Stam and Neville. 08 you could say the whole defence and GK. All the best defences in history have had good leaders.

We need someone commanding and with authority at the back. Hard to find those sort of players. City are going to spend around £120m on defenders and I don't think they found somebody like Kompany.
 
Floyd said:
No sane person has ever said that about Rio. His reading of the game has always been exceptional. His concentration went missing from time to time in his younger years. He came to United though off the back of a tremendous WC for England in 2002. Maybe Stones does the same this summer, we'll see.
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I'm mostly talking about his West Ham and early Leeds days here, to be fair. But yeah, I'm not just making that up, man! The "can't sense danger" thing was some soundbite that was constantly thrown out there by pundits whenever they talked about his defending. Obviously by the time he joined United he'd got to the semi's of the CL and been one of the best defenders in the 2002 WC, so had people stopped saying it, but it was something he was criticised for when he was younger.

Anyway, my point was that Stones is still young enough to sort out his mistakes. Playing in a Martinez defence can't be the easiest, especially when you're still trying to learn the game.
 
When people randomly decide a player is good, exactly how bad does that player have to be before people will admit they were wrong?

He's ended up in the England squad on the back of some idiot pundits deciding he was good over a year and a half ago...despite his only notable attribute being the ability to prat around with the ball and cost his team a goal.

Remember when Phil Jones was "future England captain"? ...it took about three years of injuries and oafish defending for the notion to fully go away.
 
Sammyjunn said:
For the level we should require from defenders, he is quite poor. He should compensate with his ball playing ability, but it only causes more problems for him and his teammates. Should be nowhere near our shortlist.
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I think he's made a lot of errors this season, being caught out when attempting to be too bullish in moving the ball out of defence, or doing a Moreno and lunging into tackles & coming short.

However, these are habits that can be trained out of him under a proper manager. I think we run an equivalent risk if we sign an 'established' CB from say La Liga and assume he will be able to adapt. Otamendi being an example.
 
Bojan11 said:
My worry is Smalling isn't a leader. Stones doesn't look like one. De Gea isn't really one nor is Shaw.

When you look at our best defences they all had leaders. 99 you had Schmeichel, Stam and Neville. 08 you could say the whole defence and GK. All the best defences in history have had good leaders.

We need someone commanding and with authority at the back. Hard to find those sort of players. City are going to spend around £120m on defenders and I don't think they found somebody like Kompany.
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Big Pete also had Pallister and Bruce in front of him, Irwin, Neville. None of whom were scared of shouting at each other. They kept each other awake and aware of what was round them.
 
noodlehair said:
When people randomly decide a player is good, exactly how bad does that player have to be before people will admit they were wrong?

He's ended up in the England squad on the back of some idiot pundits deciding he was good over a year and a half ago...despite his only notable attribute being the ability to prat around with the ball and cost his team a goal.
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Micheal Owen just said that he'll be the only English player to go into Barcelona's first team.

Although I couldn't think of any English player who'd go into Barcelona's first team. Luke Shaw at a stretch probably.
 
#07 said:
I may turn out to be totally wrong but I can't understand the John Stones hype.

Stones has not had a good game in months. I accept there are mitigating circumstances. The environment around Martinez's Everton seems to have been nearly as bad as Van Gaal's United. In such circumstances nobody is going to be playing to their potential. At the same time I have yet to see anything that special about his supposed strengths.

People talk about him as a ball playing centre back, he's not exactly a fledgling Frank de Boer though. I am told Stones brings the ball out of defence? Doesn't Paddy McNair do that? The press are floating figures of £40 odd million. Seems mad to me. Where is the evidence that Stones will offer us something that Fosu-Mensah cannot?

Mourinho is yet to spent more than £32 million on a single player, I find it hard to believe he would spend over £40 million on Stones.
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Here here
 
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