Joao Neves | signed for PSG

[NZT-One]

That's a short term look at building a team. We already know we're not going to be amazing next year. Just getting him improves us though compared to our midfield options this past season. So even in the short term it's an improvement. However, you don't always have to solve every issue United have in a transfer window. As long as you have a plan that we will solve that in the following transfer windows, it should be fine.

There are also times you have to just strike. Which players are available is all up in the air. Different clubs have different needs depending on the window. If Neves is available now, with not much competition to win him over, then the time to get is now. Because you don't know which top clubs will want him later on. Similarly, the right player you (not you specifically) want could not be available this season (Wharton), but might be available next year.

If we maximize our ceiling, the chances of winning the biggest trophies increase. Neves and Mainoo have the right mentality, great talent, and great profiles for a future midfield foundation when United should be hitting their peak window for trophy contention. And they're pretty good right now too.


We can spend that much so long as we're strict on balancing those types of signings with outgoings and incoming players. If there is a chance for Casemiro to leave, already that leaves you in great position. The combination of wages, and transfer fee from Saudi clubs gives us an out. Varane leaving frees up wages. Brandon Williams just left and he was getting paid a small amount compared to other top players, but too much for his contribution.

The balancing act can be done. I don't like thinking of it as impossible. The club management just has to be smart.

Makes sense to a degree - the issue though is that we are doing this more or less for quite some time. Sancho was supposed to nail down the RW spot for the next 10 years... Look where that got us. So while that logic makes sense, you always have to consider what if it fails and then opportunity costs come into play. If we take pay such a big amount, we won't be able to use the funds on other areas. Not that this isn't worth a gamble per se. But those "when will we have such an opportunity" players occur on a regular basis. Last season it was Bellingham, the season before Haaland?

Much more combative against Sweden for those trying to ascertain his CDM credentials. Nice bit of tapping up by Bruno at the end:



He still looks raw getting disposessed a couple of times and losing a couple of battles but there’s definitely talent there.

Looked quite promising. But from that short video, I haven't seen anything that screams DM. But surely people have different understandings what that means, especially considering how often Pogba, McTominay, Fred, Mainoo are and have been labelled as such. And once again, that doesn't mean he didn't look promising in that clip, just for a different role.

I liked those videos, thanks for adding them.

 

[Raven]

So am I, both players have been deployed as DM in games this season at their respective ages, both players have also played in the 8 this season.

So, when you have 2 players that can play that, they will mature and understand, one goes forward, one sits. This would make us unpredictable.

Also, we have seen us play a 3-1-6 this season, we can adapt that to a 3-2-5 which will help us defensively and both these can keep the ball better, so going forward we should be able to play better too.

It's a bit abstract but I think we have played our best football with 2 man midfields as well. It's more our style I think.

 

[Prodigal7]

It's a bit abstract but I think we have played our best football with 2 man midfields as well. It's more our style I think.

Our 08 and 09 team was a three man midfield and that’s the best I’ve ever seen us.

 

[NZT-One]

Our 08 and 09 team was a three man midfield and that’s the best I’ve ever seen us.

Who were those three? Scholes, Carrick, ...? Hopefully not Hargo because he didn't play often enough to be considered as such. Also pretty sure he rather tucked in in situations when played in midfield than instead of Scholes or Carrick, not next to them.

Apart from that the notion that two-man or three-man midfields are a "club-thing" isn't really adding up. I mean, we live in times of very fluid systems anyway and but whether we should line up with 2 or 3 is more connected with how we want to play and who is available rather than whether it is a club thing or not.

 

[Hammondo]

Who were those three? Scholes, Carrick, ...? Hopefully not Hargo because he didn't play often enough to be considered as such. Also pretty sure he rather tucked in in situations when played in midfield than instead of Scholes or Carrick, not next to them.

What? We consistently played with a 3 man midfield. We played a 4-3-3.

 

[Bwuk]

What? We consistently played with a 3 man midfield. We played a 4-3-3.

No we didn't. We played 4-4-2 the majority of games.

From memory we lined up;

VdS
Brown - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Ronaldo - Scholes - Carrick - Giggs
Tevez - Rooney​

 

[Prodigal7]

Who were those three? Scholes, Carrick, ...? Hopefully not Hargo because he didn't play often enough to be considered as such. Also pretty sure he rather tucked in in situations when played in midfield than instead of Scholes or Carrick, not next to them.

Fletcher played most games IIRC as a number 8, sometimes Giggs played as the left sided number 8 but he was deeper and narrower than a winger. Carrick and Scholes were the regulars IIRC. Giggs was a bit peripheral. I remember the first choice midfield acting as a three when we they played and giving Rooney Tevez and Ronaldo more freedom as a forward 3

 

[NZT-One]

What? We consistently played with a 3 man midfield. We played a 4-3-3.

Maybe when you consider Rooney as a midfielder. Or who do you have in mind for the third midfielder?

 

[Prodigal7]

No we didn't. We played 4-4-2 the majority of games.

From memory we lined up;

VdS
Brown - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Ronaldo - Scholes - Carrick - Giggs
Tevez - Rooney​

Giggs and Ronaldo weren’t wingers though. Giggs tucked into central midfield and Ronaldo was a pure forward

 

[NZT-One]

Fletcher played most games IIRC as a number 8, sometimes Giggs played as the left sided number 8 but he was deeper and narrower than a winger. Carrick and Scholes were the regulars IIRC. Giggs was a bit peripheral though IIRC. I remember the first choice midfield acting as a three when we they played and giving Rooney Tevez and Ronaldo more freedom as a forward 3

Fletcher... hmm ok. I remember there was quite some buzz around the infamous 4-5-1 formation in the forum I was active back then. But honestly have never really seen it as a 4-3-3. I guess it could be seen as either or.

 

[Prodigal7]

Fletcher... hmm ok. I remember there was quite some buzz around the infamous 4-5-1 formation in the forum I was active back then. But honestly have never really seen it as a 4-3-3. I guess it could be seen as either or.

Depends if you consider Rooney a forward or an attacking midfielder. I think you have to consider him a forward despite how deep he likes to drop to get the ball.

 

[NZT-One]

Depends if you consider Rooney a forward or an attacking midfielder. I think you have to consider him a forward despite how deep he likes to drop to get the ball.

Yeah I agree. I actually never considered him a midfielder, always a striker. A shadow striker was the term I used back then. I agree, he was quite industrious so he surely could have been labelled as a midfielder as well.

Just checked in 07/08 Scholes and Carrick had the most minutes and starts, minutes wise Hargreaves was close though but as I said, iirc he played as RB too a few times. Fletcher didn't have many minutes in that season. In 08/09 Fletcher is actually the one with the most minutes followed by Carrick. Scholes had less, wasn't he injured in that season?

 

[eire-red]

He's definitely more defensive than Mainoo and seems to have a natural understanding of that DM position, even if he is raw at the moment and prone to getting caught out.

My only reservation is that he's just not ready to step up to PL football in the role that he plays. Even Rodri took a couple seasons to bed in, and he was older, more experienced and a lot more physical that Neves is currently.

Looks like he's going to be a great player, but I feel it's the wrong timing and not exactly what we need. To be honest, I think Mainoo has more flair and just as much ability, so I'd rather see us make a couple of astute, under the radar signings, like an experienced DM and someone B2B that can rotate with Mainoo - Koopmeiners comes to mind. We should have taken the option to buy Sabitzer last summer.

 

[Withnail]

Fletcher... hmm ok. I remember there was quite some buzz around the infamous 4-5-1 formation in the forum I was active back then. But honestly have never really seen it as a 4-3-3. I guess it could be seen as either or.

After transitioning from 442, Fergie played 451, 4231 and 4141 on occasion. I don't recall him ever playing a 433.

 

[Insanity]

I hope the plan is to go with a 3 man midfield and not have Mainoo and him in a two, i.e. if we go for him. A midfield two of Mainoo and him would be lightweight and we'll have the same issues with the opposition cutting through our midfield with ease.

 

[diarm]

After transitioning from 442, Fergie played 451, 4231 and 4141 on occasion. I don't recall him ever playing a 433.

I definitely remember us playing a 433 occasionally in that period between 2006 and 2008. With the likes of Carrick, Scholes and Anderson/Hargreaves in the 3 and then Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez/Giggs up front.

 

[Tarrou]

couldn't give a feck how much he costs or where he fits into the formation or any of that shite

sign him up Jim!

 

[croadyman]

couldn't give a feck how much he costs or where he fits into the formation or any of that shite

sign him up Jim!

Main concern is people don't think he works well with Mainoo but agree we shouldn't be worrying about that

 

[simonhch]

I definitely remember us playing a 433 occasionally in that period between 2006 and 2008. With the likes of Carrick, Scholes and Anderson/Hargreaves in the 3 and then Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez/Giggs up front.

We did. We played Carrick, Scholes and Hargreaves as a three many times. With Rooney, Ronaldo and Tévez and a rotating fluid front three. But Fergie was also tactically and line up flexible. Anderson would come into midfield, as would Giggs and Nani in the attack. Park was slightly lesser used but was still an important squad player, and versatile. Fletcher was coming through and played some games that season in a three. As did the injury prone Saha.

The thing about our team then was that it was flexible and could change shape. Like in the final, instead of playing as the expected 4-3-3, it was more like a 4-4-2, with Hargreaves operating wide right. At least for a good chunk of it. Nominally, at least, our best line up that year was a 4-3-3

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Main concern is people don't think he works well with Mainoo but agree we shouldn't be worrying about that

Not quite. People don't think he works well with Bruno ahead of him and Mainoo. But I think my point (and others in favor of just paying the big fee) is that with players like this you shouldn't be worrying about how they fit into an immediate best XI with your 30 year old attacking midfielder. Everyone agrees Mainoo is the centerpiece in our squad to be building around. Neves compliments him extremely well and it's not hard to envision both playing in front of a true anchor in 2-3 years and dominating. But for the time being you could easily rotate them while also playing them together and resting Bruno (we should be doing this anyways) and giving more options for different midfield compositions. I don't want either of Neves or Mainoo starting every match anyways right now at their age, that's a ton of miles to put on teenage midfielders. But this is the type of forward thinking signing that people always applaud Madrid for doing, and it would be a great step in upgrading our squad.

If we were 3rd last year and trying to make the final jump to title contenders then I'd agree we might need to hold off on Neves and look for more immediate/logical first XI upgrades. But we weren't, we were terrible last season and by and large the only promising parts of the squad are all very young and need time to develop anyways so he'd fit right in.

 

[diarm]

Main concern is people don't think he works well with Mainoo but agree we shouldn't be worrying about that

You can't and don't play the same 3 every week.

A reasonably priced DM such as Thuram or Zubimendi along with this lad, would give us quality options to mix and match a midfield depending on who we are playing that week or depending on who is fit and in form? It gives us quality off the bench to see out or to chase games.

DM - Thuram, Collyer
CM - Neves, Mainoo
AM - Bruno, Mount, McTominay

In a 50+ game season; Thuram, Mainoo, Neves, Bruno and Mount can all play 30 games each with those options.

 

[Lash]

You can't and don't play the same 3 every week.

A reasonably priced DM such as Thuram or Zubimendi along with this lad, would give us quality options to mix and match a midfield depending on who we are playing that week or depending on who is fit and in form? It gives us quality off the bench to see out or to chase games.

DM - Thuram, Collyer
CM - Neves, Mainoo
AM - Bruno, Mount, McTominay

In a 50+ game season; Thuram, Mainoo, Neves, Bruno and Mount can all play 30 games each with those options.

Thuram isn't a DM? Collyer seems a tad presumptuous considering he hasn't had a debut yet.

I think you're looking at it a bit too binary, as you could have Neves, Mainoo and Bruno as a 3. Between the Neves and Mainoo, they can alternate who picks the ball up off the CBs in the 6 position and the other is in an 8 role. Whilst Bruno can interchange with a combative 8, like Thuram if we were being a bit more solid.

If you're looking at from a pure DM perspective that really sits deep, Thuram would not be the guy to get.

 

[Mcking]

You can't and don't play the same 3 every week.

A reasonably priced DM such as Thuram or Zubimendi along with this lad, would give us quality options to mix and match a midfield depending on who we are playing that week or depending on who is fit and in form? It gives us quality off the bench to see out or to chase games.

DM - Thuram, Collyer
CM - Neves, Mainoo
AM - Bruno, Mount, McTominay

In a 50+ game season; Thuram, Mainoo, Neves, Bruno and Mount can all play 30 games each with those options.

Main problem with this is that Bruno will play all of them. So it has to be two of the others every other game. I think we should still be going for this lad though alongside a proper holding midfielder. The more quality options, the better.

 

[Red the Bear]

Looks even more nippy than mainoo at the moment.

 

[SER19]

He looked very conventionally a DM last night? Probably people watch him more than I do but I don't see why him mainoo and Bruno wouldn't work if for example we thought a fit casemiro mainoo and Bruno would? I know he's different to casemiro but stats wise he looks like a player who does the defensive side very well as well as the role of linking the defence to attack

 

[Fortitude]

Looks even more nippy than mainoo at the moment.

He's a considerably better athlete: faster, more stamina, acceleration, aggression. Whether that remains the case after Mainoo gets his adult body remains to be seen, but at the moment there's a distance between them athletically.

I think you'll struggle to find many midfielders as quick as Neves over the first 10 yards; guy's sudden burst is exceptional.

Portugal must have something in the water because Bruno, Bernado and this guy, I think they can outrun any other unit in the competition.

It's going to be interesting to see what approach they take to games deeper into the competition in terms of pacing.

 

[GlazersHater]

Every successful team, besides Liverpool, has had a great midfield to build upon. We need this kid, him and Mainoo are gems we need to build towards the future. Bet for the young talents towards having a great squad in the medium term that can actually compete for the big titles.

 

[Red the Bear]

He's a considerably better athlete: faster, more stamina, acceleration, aggression. Whether that remains the case after Mainoo gets his adult body remains to be seen, but at the moment there's a distance between them athletically.

I think you'll struggle to find many midfielders as quick as Neves over the first 10 yards; guy's sudden burst is exceptional.

Portugal must have something in the water because Bruno, Bernado and this guy, I think they can outrun any other unit in the competition.

It's going to be interesting to see what approach they take to games deeper into the competition in terms of pacing.

Yeah athletically there's no comparison, neves seems to be freakishly agile with his feet, already world class even in that regard though I find mainoo to be more cerebral in his approach.

Portugal probably has the best midfield going into the tournament but I'm still not convinced martinez is the man to extract it's true potential but would be interesting to see how they perform nonetheless, especially how him and Fernandes will link up.

On a semi unrelated note he somewhat reminds of modric, obviously not exactly the same positionally but his engine, quick feet and press resistance and how he seems to run into space makes him similar in my eyes.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Bruno’s reply translates to “Ace” for those wondering.

Phew... Thank you. I thought the were going to smoke some crack after match.

 

[Grande]

What? We consistently played with a 3 man midfield. We played a 4-3-3.

Completely disagree. We played basically a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1normally, but with skewed responsibilities.

08 It was typically
Carrick and Scholes in midfield, Ronaldo and Giggs on the flanks and Rooney and Tevez up front. But with Ronaldo having more responsibility forward and Giggs less, giving Rooney more space to exploit to his left than Tevez had to his right. I get that you could see it as tending towards 4-3-3 in attack at times, but defensively it was very clear with banks of four and one of Rooney or Tevez behind the other.

Year after it was typically Carrick and Fletch senter, Park and Ronaldo flanks, Berba and Rooney up top, same patterns as the year before. I thinknif you hoogle, you’ll see 4-4-2 shapes, not much 4-3-3.

 

[Raven]

Our 08 and 09 team was a three man midfield and that’s the best I’ve ever seen us.

Completely disagree. We played basically a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1normally, but with skewed responsibilities.

08 It was typically
Carrick and Scholes in midfield, Ronaldo and Giggs on the flanks and Rooney and Tevez up front. But with Ronaldo having more responsibility forward and Giggs less, giving Rooney more space to exploit to his left than Tevez had to his right. I get that you could see it as tending towards 4-3-3 in attack at times, but defensively it was very clear with banks of four and one of Rooney or Tevez behind the other.

Year after it was typically Carrick and Fletch senter, Park and Ronaldo flanks, Berba and Rooney up top, same patterns as the year before. I thinknif you hoogle, you’ll see 4-4-2 shapes, not much 4-3-3.

Thanks for putting this into words, I don't recall us ever playing 433 consistently. Obviously Rooney was like having another midfielder at times as well. People seem utterly obsessed with this big bruising CDM but I think we can play 2 deep midfielders with an AM ahead of them as long as they're both high quality.

 

[ArmaDino]

No we didn't. We played 4-4-2 the majority of games.

From memory we lined up;

VdS
Brown - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Ronaldo - Scholes - Carrick - Giggs
Tevez - Rooney​

On paper yes, but is was more of a 4-3-3. Giggs already lost his pace and he was more of a CM/Silva hybrid role. Plus Ronaldo never played a traditional winger since 2006/2007. He was more of wide forward from that season onward.

VdS
Brown - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Carrick
Scholes - Giggs
Ronaldo -Tevez - Rooney

 

[Hammondo]

On paper yes, but is was more of a 4-3-3. Giggs already lost his pace and he was more of a CM/Silva hybrid role. Plus Ronaldo never played a traditional winger since 2006/2007. He was more of wide forward from that season onward.

VdS
Brown - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
Carrick
Scholes - Giggs
Ronaldo -Tevez - Rooney

Also Hargreaves played a lot of time in midfield with them.

We are also doing a bit of disservice to park imo, he deserves to be mentioned.

 

[GoonerBear]

He looked very conventionally a DM last night? Probably people watch him more than I do but I don't see why him mainoo and Bruno wouldn't work if for example we thought a fit casemiro mainoo and Bruno would? I know he's different to casemiro but stats wise he looks like a player who does the defensive side very well as well as the role of linking the defence to attack

Portugal also played with 3 centre backs last night with Incacio and Silva either side of Pepe with Cancelo and Dalot wide of them. Just something to take into account when analysing his position and performance.

 

[philippexyz]

I don't understand why is there so much discussion, transfer speculation on this forum about Joao Neves when he's too expensive for us(120m euros release clause and nothing less). Plus he would likely prefer to avoid this current mess United is in.

 

[Red Royal]

I don't understand why is there so much discussion, transfer speculation on this forum about Joao Neves when he's too expensive for us(120m euros release clause and nothing less). Plus he would likely prefer to avoid this current mess United is in.

We need a muppet transfer every year (Kane, de Jong, Sneider etc) it feeds the habbit

 

[Rozay]

I don't understand why is there so much discussion, transfer speculation on this forum about Joao Neves when he's too expensive for us(120m euros release clause and nothing less). Plus he would likely prefer to avoid this current mess United is in.

Because there have been a number of reports linking him to us, and we have chosen to discuss them rather than ignore them?

 

[macheda14]

I don't understand why is there so much discussion, transfer speculation on this forum about Joao Neves when he's too expensive for us(120m euros release clause and nothing less). Plus he would likely prefer to avoid this current mess United is in.

Players don’t seem to care too much the mess a big club is in. Liverpool bought top players whilst they languished. Chelsea have bought some of the best young players in the world. We are still Manchester United at the end of the day.

 

[Rozay]

Players don’t seem to care too much the mess a big club is in. Liverpool bought top players whilst they languished. Chelsea have bought some of the best young players in the world. We are still Manchester United at the end of the day.

Thank you, I’m tired of reminding some of the self-loathers around here!

 

[SER19]

Portugal also played with 3 centre backs last night with Incacio and Silva either side of Pepe with Cancelo and Dalot wide of them. Just something to take into account when analysing his position and performance.

Yeah thats true. I just him always referred to as a DM, and he looks to have all the attributes of one, so I don't understand why many seem convinced he and Mainoo couldn't play in the same team. Both are evolving players and too young to be rigidly fixed in playing one way. Also in tougher games I wouldnt be surprised to see us play the false 9 system we saw for the cup final, so the fernandes question is removed then.

From my admittedly limited viewing of him, he looks like a fantastic talent and the prospect of having him and mainoo is very tempting. add in garnacho, diallo, hojlund and you have some very highly rated young talent