Said it before that Neves reminds me a lot of Carrick but with better ball winning ability, it’s just a shame that he’ll cost a fortune and an even bigger shame that our recruitment has been so horrific over the years meaning we can’t just throw money around as a Neves/Mainoo midfield would be insane.
Joao Neves | signed for PSG
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Yeah, got mixed up when reading a different conversation.
£60m + Antony. Win win 
(for us)
(for us)
Ill be very surprised if he is still a United player next season
Why do you think he would sign a 5yr deal on big money?
It heavily favoured him at the time and certainly not us.
Cause we were idiots enough to offer it to him. However that doesn't mean anything. Casemiro can go to Saudi, make more money and stay away from any shitstorm awaiting him if he stays at United. Having said that, let's forget any talks of us making any significant money out of it. It ain't happening. This will be similar to Maguire supposed transfer to West Ham. Both player and club will try and take us to the cleaners
But what if he doesn't want to play in a retirement league yet and still wants to compete at the highest level regardless of being capable or not.
Well firstly only if the other club agrees, and secondly what about all the times we have done that and are still paying? Can we please stick to a mature conversation, these silly comments ruin things.
Casemiro is not a kid. He's been around for enough time to know that his legs are gone. He was already resigned for a reduced role at Real up until United gatecrashed on that plan by offering him and Real silly money. Then there's of course cultural issues. Lets say that players hailing from certain countries has less loyalty towards their employers (and far more loyalty towards their nation shirt) then others. I am not suggesting that they aren't professional. I am only saying that they see their job as a job as opposed to the likes of Scholes or Gaz who saw the United's shirt as a privilege.
If Saudi money is good enough then Casemiro will move. It will prolong the mileage on his career which is all that matters at this point. Having said that let's not kid ourselves of making good money out of this deal. Casemiro as Maguire before him (when he was linked to West Ham) will make sure it won't be the case.
From a Portuguese view, João Neves is like a new João Moutinho. A very good player, but not worth 120M. Benfica keeps selling good players like they are the next supertars of european football, and they keep floping. Look at Felix, Sanches, Nunez and Enzo. Bernardo Silva and Cancelo were the good ones, and they sell them for cheap at the time, 15M each one.
More than 75M for João Neves is just getting bamboozled by Benfica again.
More than 75M for João Neves is just getting bamboozled by Benfica again.
Unless they changed the rules you can pay 50m up front but if the contract is 5 years long then it's ammortized over that period (so 10m per year).
But yeah fair point about what is already being ammoritzed. Must be significant.
What a mess that makes of accounting, I don't like that.
Yea, with this I assume we already owe money to other clubs.
It is debatable to say that playing in Saudi is prolonging a career.
Casemiro now is more suitable for the US then he is Saudi.
Once a player is foreign the inevitable conclusion of being motivated solely by money arises when they don’t play well. Casemiro is a model professional, and there is nothing to suggest he would be happy being a bit part player at a struggling team when he still has something to give.
When he joined, the conclusion was he was coming for a paycheque until he actually started playing well. Now his form has dipped he’s a mercenary all over again.
Its semi amateur football down there. Take Ronaldo as an example. He scored just 3 goals with us in his last season (two against mighty FC Sheriff). He's now scoring 39 goals in 40 matches there. I bet even Carrick can do a job in the Saudi League
When he joined the conclusion was that we had rocks for brains by offering him a 5yr contract.
It is a rubbish standard.
I am surprised how such a great player could get any satisfaction out of playing at that level...there is always the money I suppose.
It’s a 4 year deal really. The fact is his contract length protects his value. I don’t understand how people would prefer he was just free to leave rather than us receiving the inevitable fee that we will receive for him this summer.
The reason is far greyer then that.
Casemiro left Real because out of his own admission the deal was too good for either him or Real to refuse. That in itself should have been a warning for us. We as fans should mature. Most players sees football as their job and they won't mind if their employers fecks up if its for their benefit. However since we were happy to give him that contract then we shouldn't be to irked if the player wants us to respect it. It is that simple.
Real were more than happy to keep him. And it’s a theme. Pogba, who had pretty much grown up in Manchester was concluded from the very first day to only be joining United for money. He played out the whole 6 years of the very first contract he signed with us, never demanded a new and improved one, but people just struggle to disassociate poor performance with money motivation from many foreign players. It would never be said that Grealish went to City for a paycheque, for example.
I was a particular cog in a huge system. My job didn't earn me much (relatively wise) but it gave me unrestricted access to some of the highest earners in a company. Some of them retired when I was there only to return in a much reduced role in what many considered as an act of kindness towards them by the company. Why would they do that? Well after decades earning huge amount of money they got used to a certain standard of living which was prohibitive for them to sustain once they retired.
Real were happy to keep Casemiro but he was set to become a squad player That's why they invested on Camavinga and Tchouameni. Ironically by taking Casemiro away we bankrolled Bellingham's deal a year later thus allowing Real to build the fabulous CM it has now.
Money is a huge factor why he left Real to join us. He himself admitted that the offer given to him by United was too good to refuse. Pogba called United home, then Juventus home, then United home again and then Juventus as home again. He screwed us both. When are we going to let sentimentality at the door and admit that players (or 99% of them) are just highly paid employees whom, like most employees out there, are in it for the money? There is nothing wrong with that as long as we are as cynical with them as they are with us. As the Godfather said, it's not personal Sonny, this is strictly business
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I remember hearing a few years ago that there is competiveness amongst the players on who could get the highest wages at clubs but I suppose if the clubs are prepared to pay it we cannot fault the players.
or 70m + Lindelof? I reckon he would fancy returning to his old club?£60m + Antony. Win win
(for us)
From my observations, a lot of fans on here seem to be left leaning/Labour voters/for working rights etc
So I'm always surprised by the irony when so many of them seem triggered, that players like Casimero or Maguire, want what they have signed up to in their contracts and what they are entitled to.
Surely, they are just exercising their rights as a worker and employee, are they not? Wouldn't we do the same?
So I'm always surprised by the irony when so many of them seem triggered, that players like Casimero or Maguire, want what they have signed up to in their contracts and what they are entitled to.
Surely, they are just exercising their rights as a worker and employee, are they not? Wouldn't we do the same?
Traditionally the worse run top clubs tend to spend the most in terms of salaries and fees. That's because poorly run clubs can't attract players with anything else but money which in turn tend to make them a magnet of players who put money at their highest priority. I also noticed that poorly run clubs tends to be very sentimental and dramatic. Which also makes sense really. If the club or/and the players aren't producing on the pitch then they'll have to justify their performances on things off the pitch.
A well run business puts focus on its performance. A well football club can't care less about the professionalism, history and private life/issues of each and every player as long as he produces on the pitch. Once that goes away then so should he. I subscribe with Berrada's ideology were a player is given 2 years at most to produce the stuff.
Casemiro is on 350k a week and is simply not good enough anymore. United must find an arrangement for him that suits all parties. Failure to do so would mean that he stays and we'll be weaker which puts doubt on our negotiator's ability to get things done. Its that simple
Whether you like it or not, that’s how business works and football is business.
It has nothing to do with what we owe other clubs. The yearly cost on the books will always be the transfer fee spread linearly over the length of the contract. It is not a mess, it is the rules
He's a completely different style of player to Bernando Silva.
The 5/6 matches i watched of him last season he mostly played in a two man midfield. Often sitting back at times splitting the CB's and taking turns with his midfield partner Florentino in bringing the ball forward through the lines..
Neves is tenacious, can tackle as well as be neat and tidy on the ball.
Gray is gettable this year as Leeds have to sell. They will probably go up next year, so will be in a stronger bargaining positioning if we wait. If we got Neves for 70m and Gray for 30m, our midfield would be set with Mainoo for the next decade. Although, I have some doubts if a Neves, Mainoo, Gray midfield is the best combination. A lot of overlap in terms of skills. I think it would be a choice of either Neves or Gray. Wirtz is going to cost da whole bomb and will have the pick of any club he chooses. Madrid are planning for him when he decides to leave. Instead of Wirtz, we should get Desire Doue who can play multiple roles and is going to be a future star. Mount and Doue to play the 10, attacking 8 role is perfect if Bruno decides to leave.
That is exactly who he reminds me of when I see him play
It's not really about the other clubs agreeing. Clubs do it all the time. It's why clubs would rather pay a little higher than a player's release clause as release clauses have to be paid in full while normal transfer fees can be spread out throughout the duration of the player's initial contract. The biggest problem with our club over the years is that those who are responsible for negotiating transfers have just been terrible. See Liverpool and Arsenal for example, they spend loads every season yet you never hear of them having a transfer "warchest".
I believe it's possible for us to get Neves and a tall, physical DM. There are players of that description around that might suit us, Amadou Onana, Lucas Gourna Douth, Youssouf Fofana, Mats Wieffer, Archie Gray.
If we sold Casemiro, Erikssen and Hannibal, there should be enough to target Neves and the DM. Mainoo and Neves to rotate in the 8 position with Bruno/Mount at 10 and DM behind them. I expect Bruno to leave after next year if he doesn't get the salary increase he's looking for, then we can move to a midfield composition of:
Neves Mainoo
Athletic DM
I think it will depend on the fee and how it is structured. If we can't agree to a decent fee with Benfica, then going for Gray and another 6/8 like Amadou Onana or Youssouf fofana makes sense. I would prefer Gray over Wharton, given that Crystal Palace will demand a fee of over 50m for him at this stage and Gray could probably be acquired for 30-35m given Leeds have to sell.
Longer we wait on the manager situation and the longer we wait on selling our expensive players, the less likely this is happening.
he's a quality young CM ffs....what's the point in arguing about trying to pigeon hole him into a specific role
just let me him get on the ball and do what he's been doing that has gotten him into the starting XI for Portugal
just let me him get on the ball and do what he's been doing that has gotten him into the starting XI for Portugal
Agreed. he's the kind of player you give the ball to, and let them cook.
This myth again. Kante was never a DM. He was a pressing, high energy box to box midfielder. When he was at Leicester he was paired with Drinkwater who would sit. At Chelsea under Content he would play with Matic who was the DM and then under Sari, Jorginho would be the deepest. Kante was never, ever a DM. Good defensive traits in his game but never a DM.
We've been after him for a year and still no closer to signing him. Imagine the state of our midfield if Mainoo hadn't instantly made an impact.
I love that Conte autocorrects to an adjective that could never once have described him.
Im much more interested in having a technical DM than an athletic one. Mainoo and Neves have plenty of work rate and ability to win the ball back. Both are strong in the tackle and tenacious.
If we are playing a single DM, then that player has to be highly technical. They need to receive the ball under pressure and be able to turn and play it forward to one of the other two more advanced CMs. Onana, for example, is not that player. He’s good in a double pivot, but as a single DM, when collecting the ball from the keeper or CBs under any pressure at all, all he does it play it back. With him as the sole DM, it’d be ridiculously easy to stop our build up from the back for most teams.
For me, a Neves, Mainoo, Fernandes midfield would work much better, with both Neves and Mainoo playing as 6/8 hybrids in a double pivot. The collective work rate would provide plenty of adequate defensive screening, and the build up would be much more fluid, as both are able to receive in tight spaces, and play progressive passes.
I know the sort of player you are after. It’s that Rodri type. Someone big and strong, but also able to dictate a tempo from deep and play through the lines. But what makes Rodri so good is that latter part. Being big and strong just takes him to the next level, but it isn’t the most important part of his game. He’s also a complete rarity, and cannot be replicated with much more limited players like Onana, who still necessitates playing a double pivot.
We all agree on getting Neves, and I agree that it makes sense to have the other signing be a player who is a more purely defensively minded midfielder. But the qualities I’m looking for there are technical ability, press resistance, passing, positioning and reading of the game. I’d be looking for the sort of player that wins the ball by stepping into the right positions and intercepting it, than winning it by brute force. An intelligent, deep lying playmaker type, who can’t be bullied off the ball, and has vision and passing range. Those qualities will have a holistic impact on the play of our team as a whole. A player like Onana is just far too limited for a top team in my opinion.
I’m going to go all the way back to 1990 to illustrate how unimportant I think height is in consideration of creating an effective midfield. West Germany, the winners, played three primary midfielders of Matthus (5’9”), Hassler (5’6”), and Littbarksi (5’5”), with an auxiliary midfielder in Berthold at a towering 6’1”. I’m pretty sure Mainoo just hit 5’11” or 6’. I just don’t think it’s that important. But I’ll concede you do need height in your team, and traditionally I’d want two fairly physically imposing CBs. In my ideal system I’d move Martinez to be an inverted LB, basically an auxiliary CB and have a much taller LCB. Or vice versa, sign a LB that plays as an inverted LB and had some height.
Just look at United in the modern PL era and a list of our best central midfielders. Keane, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, etc., only Carrick is over 6ft. And those players formed the basis of our best modern era sides. The taller players we’ve had since, Pogba, Matic, Fellaini…..couldn’t hold a candle to them.
What we need above all are intelligent, technical players. Not physical, athletic ones. The athletic part is a bit of a red herring anyway. Neves is very athletic. He runs constantly, and gets stuck in. He’s just not tall.
If we wanted a player that combined that tall, strong physique with technical ability then we had to sign Rice. That’s also why he cost 100m.
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