Switch for Makelele, then.
Joao Neves | signed for PSG
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Yoro and Neves would be an excellent base to start from, considering the young talent we have.
We should try to buy him and a pure, bit cheaper DM on top. So we can switch up things in midfield accordingly
That is us in a nutshell. We have a lot of fans that are too sentimental or how i put it have the feeling that we are unique that we do good or too sensible (gives me that feeling). Why cant we treat more like business (not mean that we be mean or dont care at all to players or employees but cant gives them chances after chances). We need to be more ruthless, at least i remeber SAF is ruthless.
Don’t think you’re right actually. From an FFP perspective, the purchase price is split over five years, regardless of the payment structure or contract length.
the spine of the team needs to addressed and fixed....Neves would help tremendously and would be a great partner for Mainoo
real problem is cost nowadays and when you need two guys for that position to have proper depth, FFP comes into it and your hands get tied when realistically we need a CF, two CM's and two CB's
real problem is cost nowadays and when you need two guys for that position to have proper depth, FFP comes into it and your hands get tied when realistically we need a CF, two CM's and two CB's
Martinez, Yoro, Neves, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund as the core of our upcoming squad…dare I dream?
Quality over quantity. As soon as the window shuts on 1 September, there will be another window to look forward to. The idea isn’t to buy XI footballers now because we need XI footballers, the idea is to get the best XI footballers we can over the next few windows.
Neves is the best young midfielder around, at a time where we just so happen to be in the market for a couple of midfielders. If he is attainable to us, then you don’t pass on him to wilfully build your team around inferior players if we are able to get the best.
I expect us to bank in and around £100m-150m this summer depending on who we let go. We should be looking to spend well north of 200m, and if we are set upon the best in class strategy that INEOS have sold to us, then Neves should be a target. Otherwise we’d just spend 5 years trying to catch the team that DOES sign Neves armed with players that we know are not as good but we bought them because they were cheaper 5 years ago.
Agree with that, but just leaving this here to show that Neves plays mainly as a DM: https://www.footballcritic.com/joao-neves/player-positions/512904
Just because he’s small and a good dribbler doesn’t mean he’s not a DM.
But I would agree that getting a physically imposing destroyer in addition would be perfect.
I dont doubt his DM abilities, but some depth and a pure destroyer would be nice for certain games
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We know he can play as a DM, I think the question is whether you would want him to. He can do so much more.
In a double pivot with Mainoo it wouldn't be restrictive, given his skill set most of his best work will happen in the deeper areas anyway. Him and Mainoo would take turns going on the offensive depending on what side the possession is on.
Why do people keep saying he’s small? He’s similar to Bruno based on pictures of them together annd Bruno’s about 5’10. Kobbie also is taller than Bruno so them 2 in a double pivot isn’t that lacking in height.
I’d have posted pictures to back my point up btw but I’m not allowed to post media
I’d have posted pictures to back my point up btw but I’m not allowed to post media
1.74 is small compared to Rodri's 1.91 or Rice's 1.88. Mainoo looks indeed bigger than his 'official' height of 1.75. I don't think it's a big problem, but it would make sense to get another type of DM/CM next to Neves who is bigger, so the 3 can rotate.Why do people keep saying he’s small? He’s similar to Bruno based on pictures of them together annd Bruno’s about 5’10. Kobbie also is taller than Bruno so them 2 in a double pivot isn’t that lacking in height.
I’d have posted pictures to back my point up btw but I’m not allowed to post media
I leave it to others to state whether there are better options out there than Neves, but for me the need for a CDM vastly exceeds other needs such as another striker and possibly two CBs.
I'm of the belief that Casemiro will leave, but even if he stays we need a proper CDM.
I'm of the belief that Casemiro will leave, but even if he stays we need a proper CDM.
Im not sure we’ll even be looking at a player of that stature. If ETH stays on, and given his history of sticking to what works, I could see us sticking to the formation used against City. Meaning Neves will just replace Amrabat in that pivot. Id be pretty happy with that too but I’d want the new CB to be aerially dominant. Kinda the reason I’ve been so adamant about us bringing in Bremer, or to a lesser extent Lacroix. I’ve never thought height is such a necessity in midfield, especially with the way we play. I wouldn’t say no to Mats Weiffer though, which would sort out the height issue. Isn’t he about 6’2.
Neves is feisty. As I said in an earlier post he really reminds me of a young Roy Keane in the way he gets around the pitch and makes a difference. Obviously Keane was a freak toughness wise for his younger size and build but I see a similar kind of player. If you can afford a player like this when they come on the market you go for them or wish you did when you had the chance
Fair. He could find the physicality of the prem a challenge, but he does play the position effectively for Benfica. His defensive stats are excellent.
£100m-150m? Can you provide a breakdown down? I always find these lists hilarious. Summer after summer people never learn
Yeah, I agree, he can do a bit of everything. I think he'd be best in a double pivot where he can join in with attacks a bit more but also contribute defensively.
Yes.
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Sorry I meant I DONT doubt them
Amad was subject to a human trafficking investigation in Italy. Hamed Mamadou Traore had acted as the father to both Amad and a lad called Junior Traore, while his wife Marina Edwige Teher pretended to be their mother. Amad dropped the Traore (which it seems was never actually his family name) on his 18th birthday.
Would be a terrific signing, even if Casemiro stays. A new striker and CB of similar quality alongside will make a hell of a difference.
Agreed. Casemiro would be a fantastic mentor to Neves, the mentee. And if we do well in the Europa League -- and why the hell not, let's go for it -- we'll be playing around 55 games. Add a CB to replace Varane, even if that means keeping Maguire, Lindelof and Kambwala, and we're in the conversation for a top four finish.
And if somehow we could bring in a top striker, Hojlund coming on when needed, maybe we can aspire to something more than a top four and EL Cup.
Oh yeah cool, well his stats in the position are great, but he obviously isn’t a physical beast.
He was the DM in France team won the World Cup. He was also the DM when he played next to Kovacic
People don't have the definition of DM as you do. DM doesn't just mean deepest player or sitting player doing defensive duties. It just means the more defensive oriented of the 3 midfielders, and in particular will always be defensively oriented regardless of who is around them. Yes that can mean someone who is the deepest, who sits, and also someone who is more active like a box to box, but for defensive purposes. There are different ways of defending. This is why DM is used, and not a 6.
I just wanted to point this out, and I'm not in this argument otherwise.
Yeah, I don't think people need to worry about height. If United want a midfielder like that, I feel like that is more easily accomplished than getting the skill set of Neves. I feel like height is the last thing you worry about when deciding on the midfield. The attacking, passing, defensive, technical skill sets all come first.
I've seen Verratti get at players
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I'd love to have Neves in the team to play a 6/8 hybrid but that would only work (in my personal opinion) with a defensive specialist behind them which would leave Bruno out of the picture (not that I would cry myself into sleep...).
No doubt he was crazy good but he was small and others had to stand in for him in that aspect. Nobody said it couldn't be done but right now, we are fielding McTominay just because he is tall. So we already have an issue on that front.
Which is perfect, but there is a reason why the big teams still have a tall defensive guy in their teams. Nobody said, they have to be restricted to "only be good defensively" - when they are good at other stuff, thats perfect but the other stuff is the bonus - not the defensive things. I kind of have a hard time believing that people already forgot which kind of impact finally having a real physical ballwinner in the center had for us when Casemiro joined. I know that times have changed and technical ability more important but we shouldn't act as if the physical things don't matter anymore. As I said, all the big teams have somebody like that in there. And if they really don't have, they have very physical centrebacks. I can live with that but we brought in Martinez so we kind of made a decision there.
That isn't a great point because Bruno is pretty weak. He is fine compared with other attacking midfielder, of course, but certainly not compared to actual CMs.Why do people keep saying he’s small? He’s similar to Bruno based on pictures of them together annd Bruno’s about 5’10. Kobbie also is taller than Bruno so them 2 in a double pivot isn’t that lacking in height.
I’d have posted pictures to back my point up btw but I’m not allowed to post media
You have to be joking. FFS we played as deep as it gets. ETH caught Pep offguard because Pep thought he wouldn't have to come up with an extra plan to beat us. We had 26% of the ball. That is everything - but definitely not the way forward.
Well for your first point, height and strength don’t correlate. I’m 5’9 and stronger than my brother who’s 6’2. Not sure why you felt the need to even mention strength. Martinez does alright overall as a CB in the most physical league in the world and he’s not exactly a giant.
To your 2nd point. We played that way because we were up against one of three best teams in the world with a team that can’t go toe to toe against them. Just because we played like that doesn’t mean every time we use that formation we’d have to sit so deep and allow the opposition to have the ball so much. We could play 6 at the back and still play front foot football. It all depends on how you ask the players to play. I feel like you’ve just read words and decided their meaning in your head with absolutely no thought into what I may have been alluding to.
Veratti is a perfect example. So is Makelele. Both not 6 foot and brilliant CDMs.
I think you're absolutely correct and the need for a proper holding midfielder is absolutely far more important. The team that won the league in Portugal didn't have Joao Neves but rather their midfield had a player called Morten Hjulmand in it. I don't foresee a double pivot of Mainoo and Neves functioning at all in the EPL with Bruno Fernandes as the AM. If that did end up happening, then at some point next season you will see posts about how we need to unlock certain players with the addition of a proper holding midfielder.
One of the poster's above mentions the Germany team from 1990 and you can't compare how football was played at International level in 1990 to the positional play and high intensity pressing game that has taken off England in the last 10 years. Guardiola specifically signed players like Walker and Akanji for their pace and athleticism with the aim of controlling the large spaces out of possession. You can't compare the pace and intensity of the current day EPL to how the game was played at international level in 1990.
The only team that I've seen be successful at the highest level by playing a double pivot in the last 5 or 6 years is Bayern Munich. Their double pivot of Thiago and Goretzka was highly effective with support from Kimmich who was playing the hybrid RB/CM role. And Goretzka as a midfielder was more of the box to box combative type that complimented Thiago in midfield.
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We really should try to hit that this year just from the Casemiro, Sancho and Greenwood sales. 30-35M each is still bargain for whoever is getting them. Saudis will pay that for Case. Dortmund better if they want Sancho back. Without his inflated wages, he'd easily be a 50M player. I have my doubts about Getafe / Greenwood because he'll blow way past their record transfer fee but let's see. You'd have laughed if someone said noone would be willing to pay 30M for Greenwood a few years ago.
There are others like AWB, Lindelof etc. who are apparently on the chopping block but not including them right now.
This is my litmus test for the new ownership's competence. If they can't generate atleast 100M in sales, we might as well be in the Woodward / Murtough era.
I doubt we'll get even £70m for all 3. There's barely a market for permanent moves for Greenwood and Sancho. Greenwood for obvious reasons and Sancho because his wages far exceed his ability. Casemiro isn't worth £30m either.
Or even Pellistri?
Neves is a fantastic player, of course but we have zero chance of signing him under the current regime of Glazers and INEOS. Forget about Neves, we'd be lucky to sign Sander Berge from Burnley 
Neves is a fantastic player, of course but we have zero chance of signing him under the current regime of Glazers and INEOS. Forget about Neves, we'd be lucky to sign Sander Berge from Burnley
What are you basing this on?
With Bruno as a 10 in Ten Hag's set up our hand is forced, we have to play with a double pivot. You can try to hypothetically fit him in as an 8 next to Mainoo with a sole 6 in behind but it falls apart every time, it's not a practical set up.
I'm confused as to why you think it won't function at all, Neves and Mainoo is pretty much as good as it gets for a double pivot set up. They both excel in deep areas and they're both equally comfortable, defensively and offensively, in every third of the pitch.
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