Joao Felix | Signed for Atlético Madrid

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Kaglish10 said:
How many times did he get on the ball though?

The Portugal's midfielders were mostly looking for Bernardo and Ronaldo in attack. That was why I said Bernardo should have been dropped into the midfield because that won't only make the midfield better but also, get one of the big names out of the attack (he was a midfielder anyway) hence Felix would have been more involved.

A young Rooney was the focal attack for England, likewise a young Ronaldo but Felix had big names in Ronaldo and Bernardo who were the focal point for Portugal's midfield who hardly passed to Felix. Only Ronaldo seems to have seen him.
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The point is that Joao Felix isnt anywhere close to them in terms of potential or his current ability. Rooney and Ronaldo both had loads of footballing legends in their national teams when they broke in. They weren't instantly the main players. They went in and showed their class and became some of the main players. Ronaldo played alongside fecking Luis Figo and still looked brilliant. England had Owen/Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes.
Nobody is denying that Joao Felix has potential. But they're asking the release clause right now, which is 120m. That is pure crazyness and anyone who pays that is insane and it's an awful deal.

Best case scenario for him is he fulfills his potential in 4/5 years or so and one day becomes a player who could actually justify a fee of over £120m. He's currently a player who wouldn't even start for United, and would take a while to adapt to the premier league, and there'd be loads of question marks on whether or not he'll ever actually reach that potential. He's not a youngster like Mbappe, de Ligt or Sancho who instantly looked world class and looked like brilliant players at the biggest stage despite their age. That's the problem in going for him, even for half of the supposed price.
 
Yep, he doesn’t have that “I belong here type of feel” to me, looked outclassed and clueless, still a great talent though but not ready for the Premier League at that price.
 
AKDevil said:
Rooney was not the focal point of England’s attack at 18. And if he was heavily involved it’s because he got himself heavily involved because he played like he belonged at that level and showed his teammates he could produce something, like Hudson-Odoi did. When Felix got on the ball, he looked nervous, bullied off it easily and out of his depth a little to be honest.
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So what should Felix do when he didn't get the ball? sleep on the pitch?

Rooney was a SS In front of the midfield. So tell me how this role wouldn't make him heavily involved? The midfield had no option than to pass to him. He was the link to the attack. England didn't have immobile dudes like Carvalho, Neves and Bruno playing for them in the midfield as well.

At Benfica, Felix got on the ball more and was productive but couldn't get any while with Portugal. It's no fault of his. If he was on the ball a lot and didn't produce, I would understand. Sancho got on the ball a lot against Czech but wasn't productive yet you expected a player with 10 passes to do wonders on the pitch?
 
AKDevil said:
Rooney was not the focal point of England’s attack at 18. And if he was heavily involved it’s because he got himself heavily involved, played like he belonged at that level and showed his teammates he could produce something, like Hudson-Odoi did, earning their trust. When Felix got on the ball, he looked nervous, bullied off it easily and out of his depth a little to be honest.
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Looked very nervous alright.
 
AKDevil said:
Not helped Benfica tonight at all. I know the price tag is slightly artificial as it’s a buyout clause not a real valuation but seriously ... anyone who pays that figure is getting robbed. It’s not purely about judging him on one game as such but £120m for a 19 year old, he needs to be special. Remember Rooney’s first few England appearances? Went onto international stage and delivered ‘wow’ performances a year younger. You saw something. Think of any teenage boy wonder, they all would have done the same. Don’t talk about nerves either ... if you’re that good you feel you belong ... take Callum Hudson-Odoi earlier this season. Get on the ball and make an impact.
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He was never worth 120M or 100M or 80M. 60M is the max he is worth right now and even that is a stretch he is still too raw. He needs to stay in Portugal for at least 1 more season.
 
Looked like a junior today, not quite ready for senior football. A bit like Chong. Is it right to pay 100 for a prospect?
 
bosnian_red said:
The point is that Joao Felix isnt anywhere close to them in terms of potential or his current ability. Rooney and Ronaldo both had loads of footballing legends in their national teams when they broke in. They weren't instantly the main players. They went in and showed their class and became some of the main players. Ronaldo played alongside fecking Luis Figo and still looked brilliant. England had Owen/Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes.
Nobody is denying that Joao Felix has potential. But they're asking the release clause right now, which is 120m. That is pure crazyness and anyone who pays that is insane and it's an awful deal.

Best case scenario for him is he fulfills his potential in 4/5 years or so and one day becomes a player who could actually justify a fee of over £120m. He's currently a player who wouldn't even start for United, and would take a while to adapt to the premier league, and there'd be loads of question marks on whether or not he'll ever actually reach that potential. He's not a youngster like Mbappe, de Ligt or Sancho who instantly looked world class and looked like brilliant players at the biggest stage despite their age. That's the problem in going for him, even for half of the supposed price.
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They got on the ball more which isn't the case with Felix. Apart from the fact that he wasn't playing in his best role, he also didn't have the ball a lot. That wasn't the case with him at Benfica. There's nothing he could have done with such little touches.

Lampard, Scholes were actually midfielders who were deployed properly in the midfield to supply the attack, not the same with Bernardo taking over Felix's role as an attacker whom Portugal's midfielders preferred passing to, apart from Ronaldo.
 
Next game he plays great he'll be hyped up again and everyone will switch to "we shall sign this wonderkid" again. Football fans are the most fickle sports supporters. :lol:
 
Kaglish10 said:
They got on the ball more which isn't the case with Felix. Apart from the fact that he wasn't playing in his best role, he also didn't have the ball a lot. That wasn't the case with him at Benfica. There's nothing he could have done with such little touches.

Lampard, Scholes were actually midfielders who were deployed properly in the midfield to supply the attack, not the same with Bernardo taking over Felix's role as an attacker whom Portugal's midfielders preferred passing to, apart from Ronaldo.
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My bad, Scholes wasn't even deployed in the midfield but on the wing and looked terrible. However, the point is England's midfield was set up to supply the attacking front whereas the Portuguese forward had to feed on scraps, with Felix having the least touches of them all while the midfielders deferred to Bernardo and Ronaldo in attack. I don't know why Bernardo was playing in attack though.
 
Kaglish10 said:
My bad, Scholes wasn't even deployed in the midfield but on the wing and looked terrible. However, the point is England's midfield was set up to supply the attacking front whereas the Portuguese forward had to feed on scraps, with Felix having the least touches of them all while the midfielders deferred to Bernardo and Ronaldo in attack. I don't know why Bernardo was playing in attack though.
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You can't excuse a player for not getting involved when that's really more on the player to actually do. He's 18 years old, it's not exactly a surprise to see him get bullied occasionally or struggle to get involved in big games. The point is that he's nowhere close to the same level of the TOP young players. There's just no argument for it. Wishing he becomes a player we sign for big money and he works out doesn't mean that right now he is an elite youngster, he straight up isn't. This is just like when so many people were hyping up Renato Sanches, look what has happened to him since? If you're paying stupid money, you pay it on a player you actually need, but also one that you know will immediately will have a big impact. This guy wouldn't even start for us as of right now. That's what's dumb about these rumors.
 
bosnian_red said:
You can't excuse a player for not getting involved when that's really more on the player to actually do. He's 18 years old, it's not exactly a surprise to see him get bullied occasionally or struggle to get involved in big games. The point is that he's nowhere close to the same level of the TOP young players. There's just no argument for it. Wishing he becomes a player we sign for big money and he works out doesn't mean that right now he is an elite youngster, he straight up isn't. This is just like when so many people were hyping up Renato Sanches, look what has happened to him since? If you're paying stupid money, you pay it on a player you actually need, but also one that you know will immediately will have a big impact. This guy wouldn't even start for us as of right now. That's what's dumb about these rumors.
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How could he gets involved when no one chose to pass to him? Bruno who was in the midfield behind him failed to pass to him but would rather pass to Bernardo.

That's not to mention the fact that he was deployed out of position. A young player should at least play in his best position if he were to make a debut. He should've been deployed either as a false 9 striker in a 433 formation or SS.

I have been saying he's not worth 100mil because he's just a potential, not yet a finished article however this is not the game to judge him because he hardly made a touch throughout nor did he play in his best position.
 
bosnian_red said:
The point is that Joao Felix isnt anywhere close to them in terms of potential or his current ability. Rooney and Ronaldo both had loads of footballing legends in their national teams when they broke in. They weren't instantly the main players. They went in and showed their class and became some of the main players. Ronaldo played alongside fecking Luis Figo and still looked brilliant. England had Owen/Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes.
Nobody is denying that Joao Felix has potential. But they're asking the release clause right now, which is 120m. That is pure crazyness and anyone who pays that is insane and it's an awful deal.

Best case scenario for him is he fulfills his potential in 4/5 years or so and one day becomes a player who could actually justify a fee of over £120m. He's currently a player who wouldn't even start for United, and would take a while to adapt to the premier league, and there'd be loads of question marks on whether or not he'll ever actually reach that potential. He's not a youngster like Mbappe, de Ligt or Sancho who instantly looked world class and looked like brilliant players at the biggest stage despite their age. That's the problem in going for him, even for half of the supposed price.
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I don't disagree with what you say, but Sancho wasn't world class as soon as he arrived on the scene, otherwise City wouldn't have sold him. There is a lot of hyping up of Felix and equally as many on here saying he isn't ready/worth it. At the same time, there seems to be plenty hyping up Sancho all the time like he is the second coming of Christ. So much hyperbole everywhere and it's getting ridiculous.
 
It was a 60 minute debut in a tough game. I've said here over and over again that he's overrated and that the media manufactured all the hype but don't judge him on tonight. He's still a good player, nowhere near being worth the completely ridiculous price tags the media wants to put on him but he's still good. Needs to bulk up though, the amount of times he falls to the ground per game is ridiculous.

The portuguese media and fans struggle to understand our league is not as close to the top leagues as it used to be. We used to have plenty of players ready to make it at top clubs, the best players of the best teams would more often than not be able to make that transition pretty easily. Now things are different.
 
Kaglish10 said:
So what should Felix do when he didn't get the ball? sleep on the pitch?

Rooney was a SS In front of the midfield. So tell me how this role wouldn't make him heavily involved? The midfield had no option than to pass to him. He was the link to the attack. England didn't have immobile dudes like Carvalho, Neves and Bruno playing for them in the midfield as well.

At Benfica, Felix got on the ball more and was productive but couldn't get any while with Portugal. It's no fault of his. If he was on the ball a lot and didn't produce, I would understand. Sancho got on the ball a lot against Czech but wasn't productive yet you expected a player with 10 passes to do wonders on the pitch?
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Neves just isn't good enough apart from the occasional long ball. Without the ball his immobility is clear to see. The most over rated player on the forum.

Felix should stay another season at Benfica and take it from there.
 
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It comes as no surprise that one of the most hyped up names is another case of flavour of the season from people repeating it.
 
Kaglish10 said:
How could he gets involved when no one chose to pass to him? Bruno who was in the midfield behind him failed to pass to him but would rather pass to Bernardo.

That's not to mention the fact that he was deployed out of position. A young player should at least play in his best position if he were to make a debut. He should've been deployed either as a false 9 striker in a 433 formation or SS.

I have been saying he's not worth 100mil because he's just a potential, not yet a finished article however this is not the game to judge him because he hardly made a touch throughout nor did he play in his best position.
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When he did get the ball he really struggled just to keep hold of it - it was like watching Mata. Physically he looks too weak and not sharp enough to compete against top level adults.
 
His stats tonight:
70 minutes
19 touches
9 passes
66.7% pass accuracy
0 crosses
0 shots on target
0 key passes
0 dribbles
1 poor touch
3 times dispossessed
0 tackles
0 interceptions
 
I knew he wouldn’t be anything special tonight, but I knew that to the group who have strangely concluded he will be one of the best in his generation - that would never matter. It will just be said ‘he’s 19, making his international debut’ and the rest of the usual stuff.

I’m not saying he isn’t talented, but why his talent has been assessed by so many as a player we cannot miss out on even for 120m or whatever smacks of desperation to me. Football fans always looking for a new hope, an answer, and when you’re struggling like us, a player like him will always get the juices flowing. He’s unknown enough to retain the hope that he could be what we need. If everyone had actually watched him as much as the others being discussed, chances are he would be filed along with 90% of our reported targets as not that inspiring as people are desperate for a one-man transformation. Same goes for Bruno Fernandes. The amount of formations I have seen with his name in recent months from many posters I am almost certain have never seen him play outside a compilation suggests to me that that lack of conclusion that comes from not having watched a player that much is what gives many hope on here. Everyone else has been weighed and measured flaws and all and found not to be superman. People are desperate for a ‘generational player’ to come in and transform the team. Chances are we will need to be more systematic than that. These two Portuguese players are overhyped, and their mystery has enchanted desperate fans who have knocked together expert analysis based on YouTube comps.
 
He was tightly marked and didn't have the best of game on the wing (never was) However, His best display came through the centre either while he was linking up play or making runs behind but got poor service which were mostly hopeful long balls kicked to him. He actually made himself useful by running around but that didn't get him plenty of the ball. What else could he have done?

I actually love his movement though and that means he's going to make a good striker one day. Overall, he wasn't really that bad despite his limited touches.

 
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It’s unfair to judge him on just one match with new teammates. I’m sure there have been Utd scouts at his Benfica matches.

I think he has a lot of skill. Areas of concern are that he doesn’t seem fast or especially quick. There were times when the front three pressed, but he either didn’t want to expend effort or was tactically dropping without really chasing.

He’s not a winger. You’d have to play him behind Rashford or as a SS.

His movement wasn’t great. I expected him to be constantly moving to seek touches (a bit like Bernardo), but was pretty static.

I think that 20 goals and 7 assists in the Portugal league is impressive for a 19 year old. What’s that, equivalent to 10 and 5 in the Prem? If there was an English player at 19 with 10 and five in the Prem, it would be like the second coming of Christ. I mean, people were talking about Declan Rice for 60m and he’s a very limited player.

I would want a lot more convincing displays before dropping 120m.

More worrying is Fernandes. I really was underwhelmed by him.
 
I don't know if the nerves got the better of him or if he just had a bad day but he was absolutely useless today. He played more like someone with a £30m release clause rather than £110.
 
Pav1878 said:
I don't disagree with what you say, but Sancho wasn't world class as soon as he arrived on the scene, otherwise City wouldn't have sold him. There is a lot of hyping up of Felix and equally as many on here saying he isn't ready/worth it. At the same time, there seems to be plenty hyping up Sancho all the time like he is the second coming of Christ. So much hyperbole everywhere and it's getting ridiculous.
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The hype around Sancho is that he basically had a brilliant season in one of the biggest leagues for a player of any age group, but did so at the age of only 18/19. With Joao Felix, the problem is that his price is 120m. That's his clause, that's his price. Spending 120m for Sancho would be big, but it's also far closer to being a "sure thing" because he had a brilliant season and has impressed massively at International level as well. Nobody would have paid stupid money for him last summer before he did anything. Joao Felix is essentially at a point where Benfica will only sell at the stupid money price, but Joao Felix hasn't really done anything overly impressive nor has he done so at the top level. He's had a few excellent performances in 2nd rate competitions, and has had a very good season of course, but the level they are playing at is a lot different. As that sporting fan himself said, the record purchase out of Portugal is ~45m. Yet now this 18 year old is worth almost 3x that amount? Ridiculous.
 
@DSG as I've said before, playing in Benfica is a special context. Jonas (veteran striker that got released by Valência) scored +30 goals. Sceferovic score loads this season while missing two sitters a game. Benfica has 4 or 6 tough games a season in the league, the rest are satellite teams that rest players against them or refs gifts them rididulous pens.

If you want to judge a Benfica player watch them for the national team or in the CL.
 
DSG said:
It’s unfair to judge him on just one match with new teammates. I’m sure there have been Utd scouts at his Benfica matches.

I think he has a lot of skill. Areas of concern are that he doesn’t seem fast or especially quick. There were times when the front three pressed, but he either didn’t want to expend effort or was tactically dropping without really chasing.

He’s not a winger. You’d have to play him behind Rashford or as a SS.

His movement wasn’t great. I expected him to be constantly moving to seek touches (a bit like Bernardo), but was pretty static.

I think that 20 goals and 7 assists in the Portugal league is impressive for a 19 year old. What’s that, equivalent to 10 and 5 in the Prem? If there was an English player at 19 with 10 and five in the Prem, it would be like the second coming of Christ. I mean, people were talking about Declan Rice for 60m and he’s a very limited player.

I would want a lot more convincing displays before dropping 120m.

More worrying is Fernandes. I really was underwhelmed by him.
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I’m certain that many people who declared him a ‘generational talent’ over the last few months have judged him on even less than that.
 
broccoli said:
:lol: @Kaglish10 you have a crush on the boy don't you?
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:lol:

I would have to see a large sample of his touches before I can judge him on the game. He didn't look great but didn't look awful. He had two opponents on him all through the game. At least, the opposition knew he was a threat. He didn't have the best of service either nor had many touches.

Moreover, he's at his best floating through the middle as a false 9 striker or SS which he didn't get to play.
 
Fer said:
I can see the caf saying that Fernandes, Cancelo, Neves or Felix are overrated or the best next thing just by watching that game. Sometimes it seems that it's more important one game than what they did during a whole season.
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Exactly what I said. I hope De Ligt and Sancho have a good game, if not, the caf is going to think that they are not worth the money in this overpriced transfer window.
 
Kaglish10 said:
:lol:

I would have to see a large sample of his touches before I can judge him on the game. He didn't look great but didn't look awful. He had two opponents on him all through the game. At least, the opposition knew he was a threat. He didn't have the best of service either nor had many touches.

Moreover, he's at his best floating through the middle as a false 9 striker or SS which he didn't get to play.
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Yes tactics were terrible and all attacking players underperformed except that freak dude named Ronaldo.

In any case it's obvious that this kid is too raw to start for any decent PL side, let alone justify a +60M bid. He's weak, not quick, not a great dribbler. Surely you have some talented youngsters in your academy that you can groom into the main squad like you would need to do with Félix? Like Greenwood or Chong. And they already know the club and wouldn't be dreaming about Madrid if things went well for them.
 
sherrinford said:
When he did get the ball he really struggled just to keep hold of it - it was like watching Mata. Physically he looks too weak and not sharp enough to compete against top level adults.
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His strength is a weakness like I have always opined but I hope he would fill out as he mature. I don't think he's Mata because he looks like a striker and the evidence was even visible despite the fact that he was deployed as a right sided forward but he constantly ran behind the defence while Ronaldo and Bernardo dropped behind him although the service to him was poor and also, he was tightly marked. He improved in the second half which was due to him dropping deep into the centre. I would have loved to see him play as a striker with a creative midfield behind him but that wasn't the case today.

He's not worth 100mil.
 
Haha, love this thread. Seems to me reading this thread that a lot of people probably saw him for the first time this evening. He is 19 making his debut in international football. Didnt have a great game and yes the price is over inflated and he isnt the finished article by any means, neither is Sancho or Havertz, other teenagers with the SAME kind of fees being levelled on them.
Generational talent is a stupid phrase to level on anybody a few months in to there career. Felix is a player with bags of ability that has pretty much everything in his game apart from electric pace or the strength of an ox but his body can develop and he does have a good burst of pace. I dont see anybody saying Fernandes is over rated who out of position didnt have a great game either.
We would be extremely fortunate in our current condition if we are able to sign anybody from the likes of Sancho, Felix or DeLigt. Positionally I would put Felix bottom of such a list in terms of what we need but I also think he is probably the most likely in terms of the chances of signing him at the moment.
Saying all this we have an extremely talented young player ourselves can play the positions Felix does in Greenwood. Unless we are to sell the likes of Pogba, Lukaku, DeGea and have an absolutely huge transfer budget this summer, I would rather we signed a proper winger as our attacking option, as I think virtually our whole defence and midfield is a priority to rebuild even if Pogba was to stay and Lukaku, Mata and SAnchez were to leave
 
broccoli said:
Yes tactics were terrible and all attacking players underperformed except that freak dude named Ronaldo.

In any case it's obvious that this kid is too raw to start for any decent PL side, let alone justify a +60M bid. He's weak, not quick, not a great dribbler. Surely you have some talented youngsters in your academy that you can groom into the main squad like you would need to do with Félix? Like Greenwood or Chong. And they already know the club and wouldn't be dreaming about Madrid if things went well for them.
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Greenwood is quite a good player who's got lot of potential and he actually got better service on his debut with us than Felix. I would love to see Felix get a better service or at least play in his preferred floating false 9 role where he gets to be the main man in the final third like he did against Frankfurt before I can judge him.

He's not the finished article hence he isn't worth the quoted price for him.
 
Was poor tonight. Fernandes wasn’t much better. Felix looks better for Benfica but both are incredibly overpriced.
Maddison looks the best value if going for an attacking midfielder.
 
Mcking said:
He was, by a mile.
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He had plenty of touches than Felix but did nothing however what was funny was him avoiding to pass to Felix like he was competing with him or something. Felix had to even move to the left in the second half.
 
Fer said:
Exactly what I said. I hope De Ligt and Sancho have a good game, if not, the caf is going to think that they are not worth the money in this overpriced transfer window.
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It’s ridiculous alright. One match has little bearing on the players they are. Especially for Felix considering nerves obviously seemed to play a big part in his performance. Same as Greenwood’s full debut for us.

I reckon City will still spend in the neighborhood of €100m on him including add-ons if Sane goes to Bayern and he will be a quality replacement for Silva and then Aguero in the long run.

He’s a continental type of forward and I’m resigned to the fact that he doesn’t suit us as much as Greenwood who has more edge to his game. But that doesn’t mean I don’t rate him suddenly, and I expect they’ll both be great players in time.
 
Fer said:
Exactly what I said. I hope De Ligt and Sancho have a good game, if not, the caf is going to think that they are not worth the money in this overpriced transfer window.
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Neves is over rated. He was underwhelming for Wolves in the EPL. I've shared the thoughts of the Wolves faithful on here plenty of times.

De Ligt has shown his potential in the Champions League. Sancho has also shown his ability in the Bundesliga which is a top tier competition.
 
The Nani said:
It’s ridiculous alright. One match has little bearing on the players they are. Especially for Felix considering nerves obviously seemed to play a big part in his performance. Same as Greenwood’s full debut for us.

I reckon City will still spend in the neighborhood of €100m on him including add-ons if Sane goes to Bayern and he will be a quality replacement for Silva and then Aguero in the long run.

He’s a continental type of forward and I’m resigned to the fact that he doesn’t suit us as much as Greenwood who has more edge to his game. But that doesn’t mean I don’t rate him suddenly, and I expect they’ll both be great players in time.
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Mason was very good on his full debut.
 
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