Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea

Status
Not open for further replies.
Steve 007 said:
My mistake on this one. I only looked at Torres goals in total for Athletico. In fairness he though he was already finished at Chelsea. The fact that chelsea paid £50plus million which Back then was a massive fee and he never recovered is still a red flag for Felix though.
Click to expand...

why is that a red flag for Felix? Torres was great at Liverpool and was already looking in decline when Chelsea signed him
 
Steve 007 said:
My mistake on this one. I only looked at Torres goals in total for Athletico. In fairness he though he was already finished at Chelsea. The fact that chelsea paid £50plus million which Back then was a massive fee and he never recovered is still a red flag for Felix though.
Click to expand...

Is there a butterfly effect thing I'm missing here? What does Chelsea paying +50M for Torres have to do with Felix?
 
Tarrou said:
why is that a red flag for Felix? Torres was great at Liverpool and was already looking in decline when Chelsea signed him
Click to expand...

The red flag is wether he can handle the price tag and expectation. So many fail with that expectation on them and some never comeback to the player they are/are expected to be. Felix was bought as a potential world star and hasn’t been anywhere near. Can he come back? I think he is a decent player but I can’t see how he’s better than the young players we’ve got and doubt his PL potential.
 
Steve 007 said:
The red flag is wether he can handle the price tag and expectation. So many fail with that expectation on them and some never comeback to the player they are/are expected to be. Felix was bought as a potential world star and hasn’t been anywhere near. Can he come back? I think he is a decent player but I can’t see how he’s better than the young players we’ve got and doubt his PL potential.
Click to expand...

I still don't see what this has to do with Torres but fair enough
 
TsuWave said:
Is there a butterfly effect thing I'm missing here? What does Chelsea paying +50M for Torres have to do with Felix?
Click to expand...
Big fee, flopped, never really got back to his best.

Felix big fee, very little output (3 goals) will he come back to his best? I doubt it.

I think the point I’m (badly) making is that we should be buying players on the up, like Bruno was, not those short in confidence or not playing at their best and expecting them to suddenly come good.
 
Steve 007 said:
Big fee, flopped, never really got back to his best.

Felix big fee, very little output (3 goals) will he come back to his best? I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Felix is 23, Torres was what, 31 when he went to Chelsea? Must be the laziest comparison I’ve ever heard of.
 
Steve 007 said:
Big fee, flopped, never really got back to his best.

Felix big fee, very little output (3 goals) will he come back to his best? I doubt it.

I think the point I’m (badly) making is that we should be buying players on the up, like Bruno was, not those short in confidence or not playing at their best and expecting them to suddenly come good.
Click to expand...
…..& yet every time we play Portugal/Atletico we’re shit scared of him and or he’s marked as a danger man.
 
Atletico as a whole aren't a particularly creative side. Its hard to put up Mbappe numbers when your entire game plan revolves around diving, shit housing, getting booked and maybe nick a goal from a set piece every now and then.
 
Well I do hope I’m wrong (if we sign him) I’d just rather have a Halaand/ Kane player. Someone who is a striker through and through and who’s main responsibility is putting the ball in the net. All the forwards we have are decent players, all very versatile and capable of scoring. Is martial or Rashford that number 9 or do we still need that player?
 
Steve 007 said:
Well I do hope I’m wrong (if we sign him) I’d just rather have a Halaand/ Kane player. Someone who is a striker through and through and who’s main responsibility is putting the ball in the net. All the forwards we have are decent players, all very versatile and capable of scoring. Is martial or Rashford that number 9 or do we still need that player?
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t we all!

But in reality there are hardly any world class strikers around, in fact there are hardly any out and out strikers on the market or in world football right now.

The ones that are around are all tied up to long term contracts too
 
Steve 007 said:
Big fee, flopped, never really got back to his best.

Felix big fee, very little output (3 goals) will he come back to his best? I doubt it.

I think the point I’m (badly) making is that we should be buying players on the up, like Bruno was, not those short in confidence or not playing at their best and expecting them to suddenly come good.
Click to expand...

Btw 2 things of note:

You can't compare the two. You can't just lazily put him in the team and think its a good inference because there's completely different players in both squads, they play slightly differently. It's like going well Rooney played at United in 2010 and scored 40 goals, and in 2021 we had Ronaldo up front and he only scored this amount of goals so he's a flop.

Also, Atletico beat Barcelona and Real Madrid to the league with him in the squad.
 
Steve 007 said:
Big fee, flopped, never really got back to his best.

Felix big fee, very little output (3 goals) will he come back to his best? I doubt it.

I think the point I’m (badly) making is that we should be buying players on the up, like Bruno was, not those short in confidence or not playing at their best and expecting them to suddenly come good.
Click to expand...
Torres was visibly done before that transfer to Chelsea, the fee was nothing to do with anything.

Also on your last point that same argument could easily have been used against signing, for instance, Eric Cantona. Against Arsenal signing Thierry Henry. It’s a really bad point, those signings are often some of the best value.
 
Steve 007 said:
My mistake on this one. I only looked at Torres goals in total for Athletico. In fairness he though he was already finished at Chelsea. The fact that chelsea paid £50plus million which Back then was a massive fee and he never recovered is still a red flag for Felix though.
Click to expand...
You though Athletico's Felix might be the new Torres? Yeah, mistakes were made.
 


Have to go for him if true. 8m + wages + option to buy is too good to turn down.
 
phelans shorts said:
That specifically says no option to buy
Click to expand...

I think he'll be at Arsenal with a no buy option.

They're keen on getting him off the books and getting a bit of cash up front to keep with FFP.

Arsenal need a stand in whilst Jesus recovers. I'm sure Atletico want to generate some interest before they have a bit of a bidding war in the summer, since Arsenals style will suit him to a T.

I would never want a player who only comes for 6 months, because you're integrating them into the squad, and by the time they fully adjust they go back to their parent club.

Unless there's obligation to buy its dead in the water for United.
 
Shakesey said:
You though Athletico's Felix might be the new Torres? Yeah, mistakes were made.
Click to expand...

Looks like I’m not the only one capable of this mistake with the spelling of Atletico.

I have watched a few Atletico games but they are not my cup of tea. Possibly the worst team in Europe to watch.
 
Steve 007 said:
Looks like I’m not the only one capable of this mistake with the spelling of Atletico.

I have watched a few Atletico games but they are not my cup of tea. Possibly the worst team in Europe to watch.
Click to expand...

They're definitely an awful watch, I've only watched them a lot because I have family in Madrid.

I preferred the Forlan Aguero days
 
TheNewEra said:
I think he'll be at Arsenal with a no buy option.

They're keen on getting him off the books and getting a bit of cash up front to keep with FFP.

Arsenal need a stand in whilst Jesus recovers. I'm sure Atletico want to generate some interest before they have a bit of a bidding war in the summer, since Arsenals style will suit him to a T.

I would never want a player who only comes for 6 months, because you're integrating them into the squad, and by the time they fully adjust they go back to their parent club.

Unless there's obligation to buy its dead in the water for United.
Click to expand...

Why would we want to be obligated to anything? If he is shite then we would still be committed to buy for the agreed fee. Makes no sense for us or AM.

AM want 100m, but no-one is paying that. So what fee could AM set now that someone will still commit to paying after loan deal. Lets say 50-60m hypothetically?

AM are basically accepting 50-60m for Felix. We would be committing to paying that fee without trialling him first. If both parties are willing to do that, we might as well just sign him now for 50-60m.

So I just can't see how it is more beneficial being obligated to paying the initial loan fee, as well as the transfer fee in 6months, irrespective of how he performs?

As opposed to paying the loan fee now, seeing how he performs, and then deciding whether we want to sign him or not.

Option to buy will always be there because AM clearly want to sell. His form during his loan spell will then determine what AM will ask for him. What we then decide to pay is our choice, but at least we will still have a choice.
 
phelans shorts said:
That specifically says no option to buy
Click to expand...

I don't think Atleti will have a problem with putting in an option to buy at 130m or whatever they want for him. Not a big deal either way IMO unless we insist on it and view him as our primary target in the summer (and thereby drawing out our summer transfer fee negotiation forwards into Jan).
 
TheNewEra said:
I think he'll be at Arsenal with a no buy option.

They're keen on getting him off the books and getting a bit of cash up front to keep with FFP.

Arsenal need a stand in whilst Jesus recovers. I'm sure Atletico want to generate some interest before they have a bit of a bidding war in the summer, since Arsenals style will suit him to a T.

I would never want a player who only comes for 6 months, because you're integrating them into the squad, and by the time they fully adjust they go back to their parent club.

Unless there's obligation to buy its dead in the water for United.
Click to expand...

Indeed, seems very much like the Odegaard move to me. Not something United tend to get involved in, but certainly something down Arsenal’s street to get themselves a player that otherwise wouldn’t really have a preference to go there.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Childish is pretending that 14 games after 10 years of meh followed by 5 years of utter shite makes a club more attractive again.
So what if Arsenal lose to West Ham today, and then to Brighton, before facing Newcastle and then Tottenham away. Do they suddenly become less attractive again?
Is the football World really that fickle that players make massive career moves based on a side having a good start to the season?
In that case, are Freiburg currently more attractive than Dortmund?

I think the entire argument is childish, like playing top trumps or something. Arsenal will become a very attractive place to play again if they can maintain this start throughout the season, showing players that it’s not just a run of good form after years of shite, but something sustainable.

Felix may well end up at Arsenal, but just as with Odegaard, I’d wager it’ll be due to Arsenal being his best option, with none of Chelsea, Liverpool, City or United showing enough concrete interest.
Click to expand...

You're talking too much sense. Be careful.
 
I haven't really kept up with this one. Why do Atletico want to sell him and/or why does he want to leave?
 
I think I’m probably the only one who would prefer Gakpo over Felix. Felix is the bigger name yes but I can’t help thinking Gakpo will fit Ten Hag’s system like a glove
 
SATA said:
I think I’m probably the only one who would prefer Gakpo over Felix. Felix is the bigger name yes but I can’t help thinking Gakpo will fit Ten Hag’s system like a glove
Click to expand...

I'd rather Gakpo because United need to strengthen other areas.
 
bosskeano said:
huh??? that makes no sense.

Gakpo isn't a CF just like Felix isn't AND
Felix would cost 8m on loan where Gakpo would cost 40-50m to purchase
Click to expand...

Yup and Gakpo is a permanent move, paying a loan fee is stupid.

Gakpo fits more with what ETH wants and the wheels have been in motion since the summer for his transfer.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Childish is pretending that 14 games after 10 years of meh followed by 5 years of utter shite makes a club more attractive again.
So what if Arsenal lose to West Ham today, and then to Brighton, before facing Newcastle and then Tottenham away. Do they suddenly become less attractive again?
Is the football World really that fickle that players make massive career moves based on a side having a good start to the season?
In that case, are Freiburg currently more attractive than Dortmund?

I think the entire argument is childish, like playing top trumps or something. Arsenal will become a very attractive place to play again if they can maintain this start throughout the season, showing players that it’s not just a run of good form after years of shite, but something sustainable.

Felix may well end up at Arsenal, but just as with Odegaard, I’d wager it’ll be due to Arsenal being his best option, with none of Chelsea, Liverpool, City or United showing enough concrete interest.
Click to expand...
Why you mad, bro?

When a player is deciding where he should spend the next 5 years of his career, how much weight do you think he gives to how the last 15 years versus what they're building now? You're reaching so far back in time that Felix would have been 8 years old. That's far less relevant than whether he feel the club has everything in place to help him achieve his goals in the near future.

Also, 15 years is quite an arbitrary place to stop. Arsenal are the third most successful club in their country, just like *checks notes* Atletico Madrid. He's one of the highest rated young players in the world. If he signs for Arsenal it will be because he wants to play for Arsenal. That will be the case for wherever he ends up. That's pretty much the case for all top-level players.
 
Daydreamer said:
Why you mad, bro?

When a player is deciding where he should spend the next 5 years of his career, how much weight do you think he gives to how the last 15 years versus what they're building now? You're reaching so far back in time that Felix would have been 8 years old. That's far less relevant than whether he feel the club has everything in place to help him achieve his goals in the near future.

Also, 15 years is quite an arbitrary place to stop. Arsenal are the third most successful club in their country, just like *checks notes* Atletico Madrid. He's one of the highest rated young players in the world. If he signs for Arsenal it will be because he wants to play for Arsenal. That will be the case for wherever he ends up. That's pretty much the case for all top-level players.
Click to expand...

Who’s mad?

I literally said in my post that a good season this year will see Arsenal become a very attractive option again, yet you’ve gone on some bizarre 15 year rant. Arsenal are a great club, but they’ve spent way too long being fecking horrendous, much worse than United or Chelsea’s horrendous spells.
So far you’ve had a cracking 14 games is all, and no player is basing their future on 14 games.

And no, players often don’t end up at their first choice of club, I’m sure Antony for example would’ve joined Madrid over United, they end up at the best option available to them at the time.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Who’s mad?

I literally said in my post that a good season this year will see Arsenal become a very attractive option again, yet you’ve gone on some bizarre 15 year rant. Arsenal are a great club, but they’ve spent way too long being fecking horrendous, much worse than United or Chelsea’s horrendous spells.
So far you’ve had a cracking 14 games is all, and no player is basing their future on 14 games.

And no, players often don’t end up at their first choice of club, I’m sure Antony for example would’ve joined Madrid over United, they end up at the best option available to them at the time.
Click to expand...
Who's ranting? I was just paraphrasing your words...

"Childish is pretending that 14 games after 10 years of meh followed by 5 years of utter shite makes a club more attractive again."

That looks like a reference to the last 15 years by my maths.

"So far you’ve had a cracking 14 games is all, and no player is basing their future on 14 games."

Fair enough. Though, I'm not sure a good second half of the season would all that much difference. I would have thought the player is primarily concerned with joining a club that is set up to help them achieve their potential in the future. Bruno Guimarães and Kieron Trippier didn't join Newcastle due to how they've performed in recent history. Or in fact, at pretty much any point in their history. Both would have been well paid wherever they signed. They sensed Newcastle was building something (and I fear they may have been right).

"And no, players often don’t end up at their first choice of club, I’m sure Antony for example would’ve joined Madrid over United, they end up at the best option available to them at the time."

Agreed, though by that logic, almost everyone who doesn't play for Real Madrid hasn't ended up at their first choice of club. My point was that highly rated players have their pick of clubs to join and so when they sign somewhere it's generally because they want to be there.
 
Giggsyking said:
Click to expand...

saivet said:
If that was the only business we do in January, I'd be happy with that. See how it goes and potentially buy him if a success.
Click to expand...
Cee90 said:
100% just do it.
Click to expand...
Berbaclass said:
Good deal if true.
Click to expand...
mav_9me said:
Great deal. Would love for us to go for him rather than Arsenal. Both of us have a need.
Click to expand...

Am i missing something here?

Awful deal. We are paying a huge amount for 5 months of a player whom we have no option to buy on following the deal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.