Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea

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phelans shorts said:
But a hundred million pounds these days buys you Jack Grealish. Of course a player like Felix will cost more.
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Not sure this logic works out. You can always pick out a player that was a total rip off, or conversely a player that was a relative bargain. Enough deals get made every summer that this is inevitable.

Grealish being 100 million was just a bad deal on City's behalf for a player they didn't have a strong requirement for and perhaps they were overly enamoured with the idea of an English talent so they bit the bullet and accepted it, even if they probably knew it was OTT.
 
Think if arsenal get him in Jan then they’ll have a very good chance of the league this year.
 
Wonder if Ten Hag would use him similar to how he used Tadic in that false 9 role? Never a fan of a false 9 if I’m honest but he got Tadic scoring and creating for fun.

Wanted United to Felix when he ended up going to Madrid so would like to see him sign now. Just don’t know how we’d get the best out of him with the current players at our disposal.
 
Pretty much since SAF retired, our squad planning has only been as sophisticated as 'sign the most talented player available, regardless of squad makeup'. This signing would reek of that.

Felix is an insanely talented player, for sure. But he is not at all what the squad requires right now. Even at £50m, it's a hard pass from me.
 
phelans shorts said:
But a hundred million pounds these days buys you Jack Grealish. Of course a player like Felix will cost more.
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Sorry, I assumed this post was tongue in cheek, originally. Do you think Felix is genuinely worth North of 100 million?
 
Pickle85 said:
Sorry, I assumed this post was tongue in cheek, originally. Do you think Felix is genuinely worth North of 100 million?
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I think his point is Felix is worth more than Grealish, so yeah
 
JJ12 said:
I think his point is Felix is worth more than Grealish, so yeah
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But it's a totally illogical train of thought, isn't it? Just because somebody buys a 500k house for 1.2m it doesn't automatically mean all similar houses on the street are worth more than a million.
 
Pickle85 said:
But it's a totally illogical train of thought, isn't it? Just because somebody buys a 500k house for 1.2m it doesn't automatically mean all similar houses on the street are worth more than a million.
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Maybe not, but a precedent has still been set.
So all similar houses can now ask for an initially higher figure than they ever would have asked before.
 
apotheosis said:
Maybe not, but a precedent has still been set.
So all similar houses can now ask for an initially higher figure than they ever would have asked before.
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The selling club can always ask for whatever they want. It's a nonsense to say that the grealish transfer is now the normal against which other transfers should be set. Newmar went for 200 odd million in 2017. How many 200 million pound players have we seen since? Also, are Felix and Grealish similar players?

Edit: like @Abraxas says above, just because one club overpays it doesn't mean all clubs are going to be open to being similarly fleeced. No chance Atlético get their money back on this one.
 
Trigg said:
Wonder if Ten Hag would use him similar to how he used Tadic in that false 9 role? Never a fan of a false 9 if I’m honest but he got Tadic scoring and creating for fun.

Wanted United to Felix when he ended up going to Madrid so would like to see him sign now. Just don’t know how we’d get the best out of him with the current players at our disposal.
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I usually feel the same about a false 9 outside of when Messi plays as one but with Rashford and Antony running in behind from out wide and Fernandes natural instinct being running through beyond the striker would a false 9 be the best option currently for us ?

A false 9 could interchange with Fernandes and from what I’ve seen of Felix he’s very good on the ball and in his link up play, my thinking is simply we’re not going to have much to spend in January so a loan deal is probably our best option and Felix is a better option than anyone else available.
 
Pickle85 said:
But it's a totally illogical train of thought, isn't it? Just because somebody buys a 500k house for 1.2m it doesn't automatically mean all similar houses on the street are worth more than a million.
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Yeah you’re right, neither player are worth £100m
 
davidmichael said:
I usually feel the same about a false 9 outside of when Messi plays as one but with Rashford and Antony running in behind from out wide and Fernandes natural instinct being running through beyond the striker would a false 9 be the best option currently for us ?

A false 9 could interchange with Fernandes and from what I’ve seen of Felix he’s very good on the ball and in his link up play, my thinking is simply we’re not going to have much to spend in January so a loan deal is probably our best option and Felix is a better option than anyone else available.
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£8m for now as an option then see what happens in the summer is a no brainer imo.

we essentially get a free look to see if he would actually suit the league without spending 80m+ also
 
DJ_21 said:
Think if arsenal get him in Jan then they’ll have a very good chance of the league this year.
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We need an out and out striker who can score 15 league goals a season. Felix is not that guy. We already have Odegaard, ESR, Vieria for his role already. We need striker, Winger, and a DM. Not Felix.
 
RedPed said:
What are some of you people smoking? Based on your logic, the guy would rather go to fecking Newcastle than United.

If United and Arsenal both put in serious bids, I'm pretty certain he would choose United. Arsenal ain't won the title yet and they'll never be more attractive than United. They'd probably have a shout against Chelsea or Spurs, but United? No chance!
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What are you talking about? You said if it's between us and Arsenal, he's not choosing Arsenal - and all I said to you was:

TsuWave said:
Arsenal is not just any club, they are extremely attractive for multiple reasons. A player could easily choose Arsenal over United
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Adam-Utd said:
£8m for now as an option then see what happens in the summer is a no brainer imo.

we essentially get a free look to see if he would actually suit the league without spending 80m+ also
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This is the other big plus, as I said in the other post we won’t have money for a big signing next month even with Ronaldo off the wage bill.

I get Felix hasn’t lit up the goal scoring charts in Spain but Atletico are basically the anti Christ of attacking teams, I think he’s shown he’s good enough that if you create chances he’ll score and we do create chances.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Aye, whenever a side is ahead of us in the league after 14 games, they are definitely more attractive for as many months as the season has left to run.
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You want to extrapolate what I said to every season, go right ahead. I have no interest in a discussion with this kind of childish stuff. You win this argument. Enjoy the holidays.
 
davidmichael said:
This is the other big plus, as I said in the other post we won’t have money for a big signing next month even with Ronaldo off the wage bill.

I get Felix hasn’t lit up the goal scoring charts in Spain but Atletico are basically the anti Christ of attacking teams, I think he’s shown he’s good enough that if you create chances he’ll score and we do create chances.
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There isn't exactly a lot of quality elsewhere available either.

He might not score 25 goals himself, but if he can lay more on for Rashford/Antony/Bruno/Eriksen then that's all that matters.
 
MadDogg said:
I believe ETH wants to play a high line, but we don't really do it yet. There's obviously been an improvement but I believe we're still in the bottom half in the league in terms of how high a line we hold.
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Agreed. Ever since the Brentford loss United have been more defensively solid. in those 4 goals conceded was turning the ball over trying to play out the back, and getting counter attacked. ETH has dropped Uniteds line about 10 yards which has helped the defence. United have scored only 20 league goals this season, thats 11th ongoals scoring charts. Its not really indicative of an aggressive pressing team. I also see Eriksen playing deep next to Casemiro. Im not a fan of two sitting players, even if one purpose is to find aggressive forward passes.

ETH will see this season out playing as you are and it may be enough for top 4. But next season he needs to shift that line 10 yards higher for progress to commence. Two players need to go for this to happen - Maguire and De Gea. I for one dont know why you persist with De Gea given his inability to sweep and his poor passing with feet. He is one of the reasons United need to play a low block. When Pep came to Man City he got rid of fan favorite Joe Hart right away. If Pep were revealed as United manager tomorrow, De Gea would get the bin.

This is why Felix would suit Arsenal more. He would get more touches higher up the pitch given we play a really high line. Pundits like Gary Neville think a high line and space in behind is bad, but thats his thinking being narrowed given he was a generic old school right back. The higher up the pitch, the narrow the space the opposition can play in, you make the pitch smaller for the opposition and pressing is therefore more effective. Dont worry about the space your giving behind you, worry about the space your giving infront of you.
 
mav_9me said:
You want to extrapolate what I said to every season, go right ahead. I have no interest in a discussion with this kind of childish stuff. You win this argument. Enjoy the holidays.
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Childish is pretending that 14 games after 10 years of meh followed by 5 years of utter shite makes a club more attractive again.
So what if Arsenal lose to West Ham today, and then to Brighton, before facing Newcastle and then Tottenham away. Do they suddenly become less attractive again?
Is the football World really that fickle that players make massive career moves based on a side having a good start to the season?
In that case, are Freiburg currently more attractive than Dortmund?

I think the entire argument is childish, like playing top trumps or something. Arsenal will become a very attractive place to play again if they can maintain this start throughout the season, showing players that it’s not just a run of good form after years of shite, but something sustainable.

Felix may well end up at Arsenal, but just as with Odegaard, I’d wager it’ll be due to Arsenal being his best option, with none of Chelsea, Liverpool, City or United showing enough concrete interest.
 
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I think Atletico should take £80m + add ons like appearances, CL win, PL win etc.

I think they'd be stupid to see anyone coughing up their valuation, I do think he will be a star in any system as a second striker.
 
TheNewEra said:
In the current climate he's worth easily that.

23 year old that is top class, just in the wrong system and team.
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He's very talented, but until he puts up the numbers he's an expensive gamble. I'm not saying that he can't do it, but uncertainty remains until he does. £80m+ shouldn't come with uncertainty.
 
Remember the geese said:
He's very talented, but until he puts up the numbers he's an expensive gamble. I'm not saying that he can't do it, but uncertainty remains until he does. £80m+ shouldn't come with uncertainty.
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I have faith in the scouts at this point honestly, United were going to buy Rabiot in the summer he's gone on to have a great year so far.

All of the players United scouted that were linked under ETH have been fine really.

I think Felix based on his WC has shown it's the system, I don't think he's going to be the main man at the top though, unless he's deployed as false 9 but it'd be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I know Arsenal probably need him a lot more right now though.
 
TheNewEra said:
I have faith in the scouts at this point honestly, United were going to buy Rabiot in the summer he's gone on to have a great year so far.

All of the players United scouted that were linked under ETH have been fine really.

I think Felix based on his WC has shown it's the system, I don't think he's going to be the main man at the top though, unless he's deployed as false 9 but it'd be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I know Arsenal probably need him a lot more right now though.
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I'd like a 'try before you buy' type of deal, if possible. Definitely an option rather than an obligation though. I think he's one of those illusive/enigma type of players who wouldn't surprise you if he exploded into a world class player, but equally wouldn't shock you if he massively flopped. Either way he is very talented and there is a lack of guaranteed quality options out there. I would rather us take a chance on him than Gakpo.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
We need an out and out striker who can score 15 league goals a season. Felix is not that guy. We already have Odegaard, ESR, Vieria for his role already. We need striker, Winger, and a DM. Not Felix.
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He played on the wing for Portugal and chipped in with some goals.
 
Remember the geese said:
I'd like a 'try before you buy' type of deal, if possible. Definitely an option rather than an obligation though. I think he's one of those illusive/enigma type of players who wouldn't surprise you if he exploded into a world class player, but equally wouldn't shock you if he massively flopped. Either way he is very talented and there is a lack of guaranteed quality options out there. I would rather us take a chance on him than Gakpo.
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Oddly enough I think the two of them have the potential to complement each other and help each other succeed. Felix in the false 9 role would need a prolific winger to get the best out of him and take the burden of being the team's main scorer whilst a scoring winger like Gakpo would thrive playing off someone like Felix.

So a Rashford - Felix - Gakpo frontline could be surprisingly fluid and dangerous especially with Bruno running beyond Felix to score like he did in that post lockdown run with Martial, Greenwood and Rashford. But we just dropped a 100m on Antony, are swimming in debt and cant afford something like this.

I also agree that Felix is just as likely to explode as he is to flop but Gakpo looks and feels like a safer bet even if he wont elevate the attack to another level. I have a feeling that whether Gakpo flops or blows up he will guarantee the team goals but he wont be a superstar but will be useful and will have the mentality to fashion out a new role for himself here if it doesn't work out.
 
AneRu said:
Oddly enough I think the two of them have the potential to complement each other and help each other succeed. Felix in the false 9 role would need a prolific winger to get the best out of him and take the burden of being the team's main scorer whilst a scoring winger like Gakpo would thrive playing off someone like Felix.

So a Rashford - Felix - Gakpo frontline could be surprisingly fluid and dangerous especially with Bruno running beyond Felix to score like he did in that post lockdown run with Martial, Greenwood and Rashford. But we just dropped a 100m on Antony, are swimming in debt and cant afford something like this.

I also agree that Felix is just as likely to explode as he is to flop but Gakpo looks and feels like a safer bet even if he wont elevate the attack to another level. I have a feeling that whether Gakpo flops or blows up he will guarantee the team goals but he wont be a superstar but will be useful and will have the mentality to fashion out a new role for himself here if it doesn't work out.
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The issue with signing them both is that I can't shake the idea that they would be competing for the same position. Gakpo has played most of his football on the left, but we don't need him to do that here. Rashford has come back into form, Garnacho is a talented young kid and we've spent a fortune on Antony for the right. Then there's Sancho. I can see Gakpo being signed with a view to him competing with Martial. This is the need that Felix would fulfil too. I can get behind the idea of signing them both because I feel that we need to sign two strikers. However, unless we are spending the money of our new owners in advance, then it isn't feasible.

Agree with the notion of Gakpo being a safer bet. The Dutch familiarity and lower fee would give you that impression. I don't view him as being as talented as Felix or having as much potential, but there's something intangible about him that makes me think that at the very worst, he could be a good squad option. With Felix I get the feeling that he either lights it up here, or it just doesn't happen for him. No middle ground and no squad player status.
 
If we can get him it'd be a huge plus. He's a player with world-class potential and I can see him linking up really well with Bruno. It's not often you get a chance to get a player with his level of talent at a reasonable-ish price
 
3 La liga goals (a hat trick back in August)
A goal and two assists at the World Cup. Young and talented no doubt but does he have the mentality? Sancho stats in Germany are unbelievable. His head is now down and his feet have stopped working at present. Felix went to Athletico for an unbelievable fee and hasn’t managed to do the job. Those saying it’s because of the way athletico play need to look at Torres stats. The PL is a more physical league. I hope I’m wrong if we do this but I’d rather risk Gapko.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
Pretty much since SAF retired, our squad planning has only been as sophisticated as 'sign the most talented player available, regardless of squad makeup'. This signing would reek of that.
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Agree.
Felix is an insanely talented player, for sure. But he is not at all what the squad requires right now. Even at £50m, it's a hard pass from me.
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Nah, he's good but he showed very little in the last couple of seasons to be thrown into such high regard.
Everyone blames A.M set-up and Simone's management but offensive players have worked brilliantly and effectively for him too ie Griezmann, Suarez, Falcao, Morata to some extent.

Felix is good but vastly overrated on here.
Plus he's not the type of player we need. We need a ST/FW who's going to occupy the oppositions backline high up the pitch. Felix comes deep far too often.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Agree.

Nah, he's good but he showed very little in the last couple of seasons to be thrown into such high regard.
Everyone blames A.M set-up and Simone's management but offensive players have worked brilliantly and effectively for him too ie Griezmann, Suarez, Falcao, Morata to some extent.

Felix is good but vastly overrated on here.
Plus he's not the type of player we need. We need a ST/FW who's going to occupy the oppositions backline high up the pitch. Felix comes deep far too often.
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To be fair you are always overly pessimistic.

It’s not like we’re going to be signing the lad for 6 years.

It would he until the end of the season, if he’s no good, he’ll go back and we’ll wash our hands of him. If he’s good enough, we’ll sign him. Win Win.
 
Steve 007 said:
3 La liga goals (a hat trick back in August)
A goal and two assists at the World Cup. Young and talented no doubt but does he have the mentality? Sancho stats in Germany are unbelievable. His head is now down and his feet have stopped working at present. Felix went to Athletico for an unbelievable fee and hasn’t managed to do the job. Those saying it’s because of the way athletico play need to look at Torres stats. The PL is a more physical league. I hope I’m wrong if we do this but I’d rather risk Gapko.
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Eh?

Torres played a total of 107 league games under Simeone. He scored 27 goals.

For comparison Felix is at 94 games with 24 goals playing deeper
 
My mistake on this one. I only looked at Torres goals in total for Athletico. In fairness he though he was already finished at Chelsea. The fact that chelsea paid £50plus million which Back then was a massive fee and he never recovered is still a red flag for Felix though.
 
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