[Eddy_JukeZ]

Out of the players who people want played before Lingard, what have they contributed this season compared to him?

Nothing and that is the problem.

All of our wingers are poor and contribute nothing. It's the biggest problem in attack.

When is the last time a winger of ours had a great season? Valencia in 2011-2012 is what I recall. Nani before him in 2010-2011.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He had no reason to be offside for the disallowed goal... really really poor awareness.

 

[Mike09]

He was good today. He made so many great run and defensively he did a good job too. Unlucky for not scoring the goal before half time. The second half got another chance to score but it was called as offside, although I think Mkhytaryan should have scored that from the first place.

 

[Lawman]

That's fair enough, I think he's a good squad option to have, and the fact that he's an Academy product makes it better considering squad players cost ~30m & 80k a week these days. (see: Ox, Nolito, Pedro etc)

We're never going to have a squad of world class players so the 'United Calibre' argument falls short to me, it's better to have a group of players who play well together, some world class players, others who fill in for injuries & rotation.

I agree my thoughts are though squad player is one thing but Jesse is starting consistently in front of Martial and Myktarin and I don't think that is great as Jesse should be a squad player at best from what I have seen.

 

[Lawman]

Thats not all that it should take to have a decent game but the timing of your criticism doesn't make sense. Mata is one of our most creative players and he did feck all today, but at least Jesse proved himself a threat by getting the ball on target and creating a superb opportunity to go into the lead, and with a clever flick under pressure. If that's not creativity what is it? Even if you're trying to play it down as just an isolated event who else bar Pogba created any clear cut chances? Dribbling and taking on players is not a big part of his game, but he's shown the capablity to do it a few times, like the Liecester goal in the comm shield. Lingard's strong suite is quick link up play, running into space and getting into goal scoring opportunities. Something he did at least 5 times today

The expectation levels have dropped at United big time when this type of performance is acceptable. Plus referencing a preseason game as evidence when we are more than a dozen games in. What about his City or Stoke performances?

 

[Loublaze]

The expectation levels have dropped at United big time when this type of performance is acceptable. Plus referencing a preseason game as evidence when we are more than a dozen games in. What about his City or Stoke performances?

He was shit against City. Ask Mourinho why he started him when he wasn't even match fit. His selection that day was perplexing and so was Mkhitaryans who was also not match fit. They were both abysmal and hauled off early. I don't know how long you've watched United but we've always had players who face criticism like this. Players like Fletcher, Park, Fortune, O'shea, Butt, even fecking Carrick. They were all at one time or another total scapegoats for people with this unrealistic mindset about what they expect from each player who puts on red. Lingard is by no means a nothing player. I've even admitted that he's not a regular starter type player IMO, but he puts in a shift almost everytime, more consistent than everyone's personal favorite

 

[Loublaze]

Jesse Lingard vs West Ham stats (Squawka):

3 shots (2 on target), 95% passing, 4 crosses, 3 take ons and 2 interceptions

 

[Loublaze]

@Lawman these are Lingards stats for the Stoke game

2 shots, 93% passing, 4 chances created, 100% tackles won for 66 minutes on the pitch. Sure you're not thinking about another game?

http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/02-10-2016/man-utd-vs-stoke/matches



This is a short video. Look at the clear cut chance he created for Pogba ten seconds in and look how he ghosted into space at 35 seconds and forced a save from the keeper. He also created a chance for Ibra that forced a save. Is this the Stoke game you're talking about? I guess you'll say they were 'isolated' events and stats don't tell the story, when they don't suit you

 

[Roeindo]

offer nothing than a speed merchant.

we were more fluid without him

 

[Loublaze]

offer nothing than a speed merchant.

we were more fluid without him

Look at 3:14, 3:22, 4:02 and 4:31 and tell me he 'offer nothing than a speed merchant'

 

[OohAahMartial]

Jesse Lingard vs West Ham stats (Squawka):

3 shots (2 on target), 95% passing, 4 crosses, 3 take ons and 2 interceptions

One of our best players today but unfortunately our 'fans' have a horrendous bias against him (yet complain we don't play youth) and scapegoat him endlessly.

 

[NK86]

Lingard has done more with the time he's been given on the pitch than the other two so far this season. His selection has been vindicated. The link up play is not hyped up either. His flick to Pogba today opened up West Ham for instance and he did a similar thing for Mata's goal against Leicester when we beat them 4-1. That second goal killed the game. He pops up in good areas and keeps the ball ticking through his awareness, vision and quick thinking. I don't see how anyone cannot appreciate that.

I don't even see him as a regular starter but he's not looking lost out there. He's outperforming better players. It started with him keeping Memphis out last season under a different manager now he's making life hard for fan favorites Mkhitaryan and Martial under Mourinho. What do the managers see in him? With Fellaini for instance its clear that his height and physicality are the main reasons he gets played and remains at this club, nothing else. Lingard offers more and Mourinho sees that

Mourinho preferred Oscar over De Bruyne. Simply shows Mourinho isn't always right. Point is that Lingard has industry and Mourinho prefers his players like that. That is one of the main reasons he is keeping Martial out.

As for Mkhitariyan, both him and Lingard had horrible games against City and then Mkhitariyan bears the major brunt of it and is not seen for a couple of months while Lingard keeps playing despite doing nothing special. Again I am not saying we should sell him, but we should give the chances to Martial and Mkhitariyan to get some form as they have miles better ability than Lingard. How will a player get in form if you don't play him?

 

[NK86]

One of our best players today but unfortunately our 'fans' have a horrendous bias against him (yet complain we don't play youth) and scapegoat him endlessly.

I would like to see how naby of those crosses were actually useful and of those two shots on target, one was literally down the GK's throat. Rooney too had a tame effort on target, but is that worth counting?

Those 95% passing stats are not at all useful as most of his passes are 5 yards ones to his next man, much like how Cleverley used to play. At least Tom was a midfielder but as an attacker Lingard simply has to produce so much more than this because he is not a United standard attacking player (as a starter) with what he has shown. I would like to see how many take ons he has had and what is his success rate in that. As a wide player, that is so important yet he rarely does it.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Amazes me that most his critics are so unobservant that they didn't even notice that he was played centrally and it was Mata on the wing. Or that of all the players who have been played on the wings this season Lingard has had the most end product.

 

[NK86]

The point is nobody in here is saying he should be starting, however the players who are better than him have been shite so we should just continue to play them based on reputation?

He's a squad player, getting a squad player in the market these days costs ~30m and about 80k a week in wages. What's the point?
Players like Ji Sung Park, Butt, P Nev etc arguably weren't good enough but contributed and didn't complain about lack of game time.

I am not asking him to be sold. Just don't want to see him starting over more talented players with such regularity. They may be out of form but we need to try to get them in form as they have so much more to offer than Lingard. For instance Mkhitariyan was playing so well on Thursday and yet doesn't start. What's the logic behind that?

 

[NK86]

Amazes me that most his critics are so unobservant that they didn't even notice that he was played centrally and it was Mata on the wing. Or that of all the players who have been played on the wings this season Lingard has had the most end product.

I think you should see more carefully. He floats around and doesn't just have a fixed position. Even as a #10, what are his take ons or his stats to create chances with a through ball or playing a killer pass?

 

[OohAahMartial]

I am not asking him to be sold. Just don't want to see him starting over more talented players with such regularity. They may be out of form but we need to try to get them in form as they have so much more to offer than Lingard. For instance Mkhitariyan was playing so well on Thursday and yet doesn't start. What's the logic behind that?

Because whenever Mhki plays in the PL he can't handle the physicality (as Mou said), loses the ball, and has yet to score or assist.

 

[NK86]

Because whenever Mhki plays in the PL he can't handle the physicality (as Mou said), loses the ball, and has yet to score or assist.

Mkhitariyan has not played for the last two months and yet people are already fine with assuming he cannot handle the physical aspect? He eas absolutely fine in cameos in the first few games and then after the City match he disappeared from the squad completely. Lingard - who was as poor, if not worse - as Mkhitariyan in the derby then gets chances and he is mediocre is most of them and yet he keeps getting played.

On Thursday, Mkhitariyan plays well and then gets dropped again for Lingard. Rooney finally hits some form and he is dropped too. I just don't see the logic which people put forward that Mourinho is picking his team on merit or form because we have Rashford and Lingard and Zlatan starting over two players who have shown better form more recently.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Mkhitariyan has not played for the last two months and yet people are already fine with assuming he cannot handle the physical aspect? He eas absolutely fine in cameos in the first few games and then after the City match he disappeared from the squad completely. Lingard - who was as poor, if not worse - as Mkhitariyan in the derby then gets chances and he is mediocre is most of them and yet he keeps getting played.

On Thursday, Mkhitariyan plays well and then gets dropped again for Lingard. Rooney finally hits some form and he is dropped too. I just don't see the logic which people put forward that Mourinho is picking his team on merit or form because we have Rashford and Lingard and Zlatan starting over two players who have shown better form more recently.

Mata played on the right instead of Mhki. And Mhki wasn't dropped, he was eased back in as a sub on the hour. Better than throwing him in as a starter against City. He could've made more of the chance though.

 

[Loublaze]

That is one of the main reasons he is keeping Martial out.

Martial was a dead cert starter at the beginning of the season. He played himself out of the starting 11 with his poor form

 

[Loublaze]

One of our best players today but unfortunately our 'fans' have a horrendous bias against him (yet complain we don't play youth) and scapegoat him endlessly.

This

 

[Loublaze]

Because whenever Mhki plays in the PL he can't handle the physicality (as Mou said), loses the ball, and has yet to score or assist.

His first touch today was getting bullied off the ball. He hasn't had a goal or an assist and people are quick to name him MOTM out of pity for his 'pain and suffering' under Mourinho. I think he's a good player, but Lingard has been picked on merit and has out performed both Martial and Mkhitaryan

 

[NK86]

Mata played on the right instead of Mhki. And Mhki wasn't dropped, he was eased back in as a sub on the hour. Better than throwing him in as a starter against City. He could've made more of the chance though.

Again, Mata was playing midweek too. So of anyone was brought in it was Lingard. Plus Lingard has had a free role and he drifts around. Point is he has been decent but being average for long is now being considered as good enough it seems.

 

[NK86]

Martial was a dead cert starter at the beginning of the season. He played himself out of the starting 11 with his poor form

He has had poor form but he needs to be given time to get some form back. He has so much more ability than Lingard that it's not even funny. With Lingard in the team, it's not like we are actually doing great. Lingard needs to either up his game substantially or he needs to act as cover and we should give the chance to Mkhitariyan.

 

[NK86]

His first touch today was getting bullied off the ball. He hasn't had a goal or an assist and people are quick to name him MOTM out of pity for his 'pain and suffering' under Mourinho. I think he's a good player, but Lingard has been picked on merit and has out performed both Martial and Mkhitaryan

Lingard has got far more chances than Mkhitariyan and no one pities him. You seem to be having an agenda here. I am not saying he is poor or should be sold. He is a decent squad player but nowhere near good enough to keep Mkhitariyan out. We should give the Armenian a consistent run in the team before judging him. You don't become the Bundesliga player of the year by being poor. If anyone thinks that Lingard will do better over the course of the season than Mkhitariyan or Martial if all are given the same opportunities, then they need to give their head a wobble.

 

[Philadelphian]

Players like Lingard and Rashford will run all day looking energetic but completely let the team down in that final third because either they can't use their left foot to cross (Rashford), overrun the ball out of play or simply into opposition feet (Rashford) or simply can't execute a right pass into that final third after all the hard stuff have been done via team build up (Lingard).

Then you have players like Miki and Martial who when not confident or on bad form will lose the ball trying things(Miki and Martial), look like they're not working hard and hardly run behind defenders(Martial) but when in that final third in dangerous position they'll more likely than not deliver the goods either by putting in a dangerous ball, pass or have plays that ultimately lead to something dangerous.

I'd rather have the latter 2(Martial and Miki) in poor form(and at least they can always regain form which is all the better) than the former 2(Lingard and Rashford) in any state they're in especially on the flanks.

This. So much this.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Amazing how the fact he scored in the previous game gets overlooked and how people think that shouldn't earn him a starting spot in a side desperate for goals.

 

[devips]

Valencia. Jones (Smalling too, when playing). Lingard. Forever scapegoat. Never good enough to play for United. The whingers are so boringly predictable.

 

[red4ever 79]

People getting carried away. He is not the reason why we have made our worst start in 27 years, and why we are sh*T. However his inclusion represents the sub standard dross we have now become accustomed to. Nowhere near good enough to be a starter here. A winger who doesnt create, doesnt take his man on, and scores the occasional goal.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

offer nothing than a speed merchant.

we were more fluid without him

Yup. Surely people can't deny we were better without him the last two weeks prior to yesterday? But here, take a YouTube video of the two nice touches he did the whole game.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

I am starting to believe that even if he performed like Ronaldo at united, there are those who would still hate him based on the way he looks, his dancing or just the fact that he was never a galactico signing.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Jesse Lingard vs West Ham stats (Squawka):

3 shots (2 on target), 95% passing, 4 crosses, 3 take ons and 2 interceptions

Only backpasses.

I really hate him when he's starting a game. He doesn't provide anything. He can't cross, can't beat a man, only make back passes. He relies on Valencia way too much, it's like playing with a man less in attack

Mourinho played him yesterday in order to block Payet and Cresswell at the back, but they were both bullied by Valencia so this Lingard plan was off.

He should have replaced him earlier to be honest.

I know that it's because all of Depay, Martial, Young, Mkhitaryan and others didn't convinced Mourinho, but the guy had Di Maria and Ronaldo at Madrid, Hazard and Willian at Chelsea, and has now Lingard and Rashford on the wing...

Ok for starting him, but he should have included Martial in his group and replacing Lingard.

 

[VivaObertan]

He had no reason to be offside for the disallowed goal... really really poor awareness.

I 'really, really' hope you're being sarcastic.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I 'really, really' hope you're being sarcastic.

Why is it sarcastic? He has no reason to be offside.

 

[Stacks]

Jesse Lingard vs West Ham stats (Squawka):

3 shots (2 on target), 95% passing, 4 crosses, 3 take ons and 2 interceptions

pretty decent effort

 

[Loublaze]

Lingard has got far more chances than Mkhitariyan and no one pities him. You seem to be having an agenda here. I am not saying he is poor or should be sold. He is a decent squad player but nowhere near good enough to keep Mkhitariyan out. We should give the Armenian a consistent run in the team before judging him. You don't become the Bundesliga player of the year by being poor. If anyone thinks that Lingard will do better over the course of the season than Mkhitariyan or Martial if all are given the same opportunities, then they need to give their head a wobble.

The Bundesliga is not the premier league though. Of course he was signed for what he achieved while he was over there but the PL is a different kettle of fish and Mkhitaryan has all to do to convince Mourinho he's ready to make an impact in it. Kagawa struggled the majority of his time at OT for instance (which is not saying the Armenian will suffer the same fate, but he did struggle badly in his first year in Germany too). Im not saying Mkhitaryan is not better than Lingard, not saying Martial isn't either, but there has to be a reason Mourinho is giving him more opportunities and you can't blame the player for that.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Didn't catch the game but from looking at some ratings, it seems he played ok and was no worse than anyone else.

 

[Dec9003]

Lingard has done alright-ish this season, but now that Mkhytarian is starting to get to the point that he can play Lingard shouldn't be getting that many minutes. I know a lot of posters like him but he simply isn't offering enough to be a United winger or attacking mid.

 

[Loublaze]

I really hate him when he's starting a game. He doesn't provide anything. He can't cross, can't beat a man, only make back passes. He relies on Valencia way too much, it's like playing with a man less in attack

This is not the Rooney thread. Seriously

 

[kouroux]

Lingard is better I think when coming off the bench against tired leg, his running can cause problems.