It's incredible how much blocks for clear goalscoring chances Zlatan had this season just because he was slow to shot.
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It's incredible how much blocks for clear goalscoring chances Zlatan had this season just because he was slow to shot.
He wasn't bad today but he's not at the standard we should be looking for.
He's made 15 appearances this year, he's had opportunities and not taken them, he'll come good though.
I like him and wish him well but he isn't United calibre end off in my opinion (dive for cover as like Cleverly because he is a youth product some caftcards get over protective when you saying something negative about Jesse).
By the way him and Cleverly played different roles so comparing productivity is not an even field as Tom did more defending. But over all around the same level and that should not be at United in the first 11.
Lingard hasn't taken his opportunities either
As a wide forward or a #10, one of his primary job is to create. Can you honestly tell he justifies those roles? Making decent runs in the box should not be the only criteria. Hr lays off all responsibility most of the times when he should be creating chwnces
Well it depends how he is utilizied. If you place him and expect him to be an ozil type player getting balls through to Ibrahimovic - it's really not his game. His game is more of a combination & collaboration with faster strikers - who don't need a clear cut chance as much because they normally face towards goal & able to dribble themselves.
Good player. Quite sad many like to shit on him because their favourite players aren't starting.
Funny you say this now when he created one of the chances of the game that Ibrahimovic should've put away with ease, and the evidence is right above you in this thread. Two attempts on target too
So basically he is dependent on others to make him look better? If he was not a United youth producy ,he would have been one of those players barely getting noticed playing for a midtable side.
That's fair enough, I think he's a good squad option to have, and the fact that he's an Academy product makes it better considering squad players cost ~30m & 80k a week these days. (see: Ox, Nolito, Pedro etc)
We're never going to have a squad of world class players so the 'United Calibre' argument falls short to me, it's better to have a group of players who play well together, some world class players, others who fill in for injuries & rotation.
If he took all the chances Pogba (mainly) and others have laid on a plate for him we'd probably be third on the table
Wait, are we slagging Lingard off now for some our pathetic performances?
Are you talking about the chance which was blocked? Again is that all it should take for him to have a decent game? To create one chance for your striker against West Ham team barely out of the bottom 3?
Half the time he plays the ball to his nearest man and darts away into the box. I have rarely seen him take on his man or show some guile. Something which a United wide player or #10 should be doing regularly against a team like West Ham at home.
Hasn't he been a regular feature of the side playing poorly? He is a forward in a side not scoring enough so I don't get your shock at people saying he is not good enough to be a starter here.
Sorry to differ, but was he responsible for missing open goals? Shite defending? Poor subs?
No that's the coach/manager's fault.
Thats not all that it should take to have a decent game but the timing of your criticism doesn't make sense. Mata is one of our most creative players and he did feck all today, but at least Jesse proved himself a threat by getting the ball on target and creating a superb opportunity to go into the lead, and with a clever flick under pressure. If that's not creativity what is it? Even if you're trying to play it down as just an isolated event who else bar Pogba created any clear cut chances? Dribbling and taking on players is not a big part of his game, but he's shown the capablity to do it a few times, like the Liecester goal in the comm shield. Lingard's strong suite is quick link up play, running into space and getting into goal scoring opportunities. Something he did at least 5 times today
I am not defending the subs. I think Mata being taken off and bringing Fellaini when we needed pace was insane. However starting Lingard amd Rashford out wide is also a poor decision. Rashford is out of form and Lingard is not a United standard forward.
Zlatan, Rooney, Rashford & Martial have been far more inefficient, so how the majority of the blame is on Lingard is baffling, considering he's probably played the last out of all of them.
Mata is our only forward player who's played to a consistent level, in fact Mata was invisible today by his standards but its just easier to blame Lingard I guess.
His link up play really is a hyped up. He does havr a few neat flicks here and there but that is not nearly enough. He is a decent player but not United standard and would be completely unnoticed if he was playing for a midtable side.
He should be a squad player covering for the likes of Martial and Mkhitariyan and not playing ahead of them so regularly because he has not been great.
You won't see me defending Rooney or Zlatan or Rashford. Martial is out of form but he has great potential and I would rather see him start than Lingard on our wings.
Again, I am not blaming him solely but he should not get a free pass because he is average and a youth player. He has no business starting for United as an attacker because he does not have the required qualities.
I don't get why Lingard gets so much flak and yet people loved Welbeck.
Not that I think Lingard is a brilliant player but Welbeck wasn't any better and yet he had a strong following to fight against those of us who knew he was a pile of wank.
Lingard doesn't seem to have any defenders despite arguably being a more effective player even if he is bang average.
Not that I think Lingard is a brilliant player but Welbeck wasn't any better and yet he had a strong following to fight against those of us who knew he was a pile of wank.
Lingard doesn't seem to have any defenders despite arguably being a more effective player even if he is bang average.
It's not about blame, it's about Lingard not being good enough as a footballer. I swear if he played for another team not a single person on this forum would want us to sign him. He's not the only one in the team that applies to either.
No because he is a United Youth - he simply has enough quality to succeed here. If you want to spend billions of pounds on players & then start moaning about them being over payed - showing no affection to the club - sure lets sell Lingard.
You have the image of the grass is always greener with something new- when there is no indication that a player like mkhitareayn who is light years above lingard s capabilities - is getting trounced by the latter consistently in terms of importance to the team.
It's Jose's fault; you don't just pick a name and hope for the best - if he is adamant about never dropping or subbing Ibrahimovic, then lingard is not the player best suited for him, neither is Ibrahimovic the best suited to lingard. It's about cohesion. Lingard was Better than Mata last year because he was able to collaborate with Martial & Rashford better.
Mata is the better player - yet he is more a traditional AM.
Anyway, we seem to not want to play fast strikers anymore and heavily rely on strikers that need as much assistance as possible. Rashford & Martial although young - need less of a through-ball pass to split enemies because they do not drop deep as Zlatan or Rooney does & are able to carve out the defense by their own dribbling & abilities.
Although nowhere near as good - it's similar to why Zlatan didn't fit in at Barcelona - he was surrounded by players who could take on players & required team work & cohesion. Zlatan is a real focus object & everything must revolve around him.
The point is nobody in here is saying he should be starting, however the players who are better than him have been shite so we should just continue to play them based on reputation?
He's a squad player, getting a squad player in the market these days costs ~30m and about 80k a week in wages. What's the point?
Players like Ji Sung Park, Butt, P Nev etc arguably weren't good enough but contributed and didn't complain about lack of game time.
I find it funny saying that people wouldn't ask us to sign Lingard if he was in another team. He is class & is on a upwards trajectory & has proven a lot of you wrong. He shuts you up for a week or 2 & one game where he doesn't deliver the God given answer- he gets the blame rather than the team.
In a market where city spent 50 mil or so on John Stones - He'll yeah we would be interested in Lingard.
In a market where city spent 50 mil or so on John Stones - He'll yeah we would be interested in Lingard.
You do realise this is the Lingard thread? He's class? Pass me some of whatever you're on.
Happy to have him as a squad player but better footballers should be playing ahead of him ei Martial who despite poor form is easily our best attacker.
Pass me whatever your on. The guy is one of our most consistent performers to talk about selling him. He has scored goals- assisted goals - made runs - all the whilst being Herrera Level dedicated to the club.
Don't paint him as utter useless because your the one with the eye problem after sh*t he does every 2-3 games whilst your so called stars barely do that.
Thought he was one of our better performers today alongside Mata, Pogba and Herrera. A large part of the thrust we had going into the break when we looked like scoring.
He's actually one of few who can bang some goals in this shit show.
Easy choice when you have him or another episode of Fellaini to the rescue.
Easy choice when you have him or another episode of Fellaini to the rescue.
We SHOULD NEVER START with wings composed of Lingard and Rashford, it's proven downright ineffective and just a waste of people breath (people hold their breath when they get into the final third expecting things to unfold but predictably they mess things up due to clear lack of skills).
Lingard and Rashford will provide you with all the work rate, passion chasing every ball (Rashford), pace and all those things which get people exited but they lack the most important aspect in their games which is end product.
Because of that all their movement, pace etc become useless because they often than not lead to nothing.
A team is better of having skillful players whom on bad days and form will mess a few things up due to their risky and daring nature of play trying things but still somehow potent in the final third with perfect opportunities.
Players like Lingard and Rashford will run all day looking energetic but completely let the team down in that final third because either they can't use their left foot to cross (Rashford), overrun the ball out of play or simply into opposition feet (Rashford) or simply can't execute a right pass into that final third after all the hard stuff have been done via team build up (Lingard).
Then you have players like Miki and Martial who when not confident or on bad form will lose the ball trying things(Miki and Martial), look like they're not working hard and hardly run behind defenders(Martial) but when in that final third in dangerous position they'll more likely than not deliver the goods either by putting in a dangerous ball, pass or have plays that ultimately lead to something dangerous.
I'd rather have the latter 2(Martial and Miki) in poor form(and at least they can always regain form which is all the better) than the former 2(Lingard and Rashford) in any state they're in especially on the flanks.
Lingard and Rashford will provide you with all the work rate, passion chasing every ball (Rashford), pace and all those things which get people exited but they lack the most important aspect in their games which is end product.
Because of that all their movement, pace etc become useless because they often than not lead to nothing.
A team is better of having skillful players whom on bad days and form will mess a few things up due to their risky and daring nature of play trying things but still somehow potent in the final third with perfect opportunities.
Players like Lingard and Rashford will run all day looking energetic but completely let the team down in that final third because either they can't use their left foot to cross (Rashford), overrun the ball out of play or simply into opposition feet (Rashford) or simply can't execute a right pass into that final third after all the hard stuff have been done via team build up (Lingard).
Then you have players like Miki and Martial who when not confident or on bad form will lose the ball trying things(Miki and Martial), look like they're not working hard and hardly run behind defenders(Martial) but when in that final third in dangerous position they'll more likely than not deliver the goods either by putting in a dangerous ball, pass or have plays that ultimately lead to something dangerous.
I'd rather have the latter 2(Martial and Miki) in poor form(and at least they can always regain form which is all the better) than the former 2(Lingard and Rashford) in any state they're in especially on the flanks.
Lingard has done more with the time he's been given on the pitch than the other two so far this season. His selection has been vindicated. The link up play is not hyped up either. His flick to Pogba today opened up West Ham for instance and he did a similar thing for Mata's goal against Leicester when we beat them 4-1. That second goal killed the game. He pops up in good areas and keeps the ball ticking through his awareness, vision and quick thinking. I don't see how anyone cannot appreciate that.
I don't even see him as a regular starter but he's not looking lost out there. He's outperforming better players. It started with him keeping Memphis out last season under a different manager now he's making life hard for fan favorites Mkhitaryan and Martial under Mourinho. What do the managers see in him? With Fellaini for instance its clear that his height and physicality are the main reasons he gets played and remains at this club, nothing else. Lingard offers more and Mourinho sees that
You constantly hear people ask, what is it that he does really? What is he good at? He is one of those players that fans who don't seem to understand what a wide player brings to the game unless he always takes on defenders, hugs the touchline and makes crosses, and yet they still get picked by the managers.
They do get picked because they are usually intelligent players that are good at doing the simple things well, retaining possession, linking up and generally making good decisions despite not having the best of talent. Beeing versatile, working hard, and also tracking back is something that Mourinho values as well.
One player like this was Florent Malouda, who was constantly beeing critisized by the fans yet he was instrumental to Chelseas game over the years, and kept beeing picked by their managers (well their good ones). Don't get me wrong, Lingard is nowhere near what Malouda was for Chelsea but he has the potential to be. Right now though, he is a good squad player to have and he will only be getting better through experience. But he shouldn't be a starter yet.
The problem is neither of Rashford or Martial are these types of players. They tend to be to direct, trying to dribble and loosing the ball. Mikhi though is the type of player I can see filling this role allthough I haven't seen enough of him to be able to judge.
They do get picked because they are usually intelligent players that are good at doing the simple things well, retaining possession, linking up and generally making good decisions despite not having the best of talent. Beeing versatile, working hard, and also tracking back is something that Mourinho values as well.
One player like this was Florent Malouda, who was constantly beeing critisized by the fans yet he was instrumental to Chelseas game over the years, and kept beeing picked by their managers (well their good ones). Don't get me wrong, Lingard is nowhere near what Malouda was for Chelsea but he has the potential to be. Right now though, he is a good squad player to have and he will only be getting better through experience. But he shouldn't be a starter yet.
The problem is neither of Rashford or Martial are these types of players. They tend to be to direct, trying to dribble and loosing the ball. Mikhi though is the type of player I can see filling this role allthough I haven't seen enough of him to be able to judge.
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Lingard always puts in a decent shift but just because he didn't cost millions some people will never be happy with him
He puts in a decent shift, but he doesn't contribute. He's a squad player.
If Lingaard is a consistent starter, then you're going nowhere.
If Lingaard is a consistent starter, then you're going nowhere.
Out of the players who people want played before Lingard, what have they contributed this season compared to him?
No he isn't, but he is responsible for his own mediocre performances which have gone on for a year now. The last two weeks when we didn't have him in the side we looked very good. Bring him back today and we struggle again. It's not all on him but when you have a player as limited as he is in the main attacking positions its no wonder we struggle.
See posts like this are stupid. No one wants him to perform badly, it isn't our fault he often flatters to deceive. That's on him. By the same token he gets defended to the hilt more than he should because he came from the academy. I don't count Lingard cousin 'Loublaze' because that's the guy who swore blind Blackett was good enough and said Lingard in 10 minutes the other night was better than man of the match Mkhitaryan.
Least of our worries today, but I thought he should have been subbed off instead of Mata.
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