14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
I don't think thats the only reason, our English contingent is currently Shaw, Rooney, Carrick, Young, Jones, Smalling, Lingard and Rashford. Theres question marks over the five bolded players. I doubt they will all leave but it wouldn't surprise me if they all did, in any case we will be short of english players and Lingard keeps that number up. He's also an academy player so if he gets the odd game every week or two it would partly shield Mourinho from any criticism on that front.
Yeah the english contingent perspective is also important, but if he was not mates with those two.. we could just promote other youngsters or get in other english players who are unheralded to come fill up the squad.
Jose looks at the psychology of the team, and understands that chemistry is important on the pitch.. getting the best out of the players emotionally and mentally on and off the pitch is key and whilst to outsiders Lingard seems disposable, he is key to keeping likes of Pogba and Rashford feeling relaxed on the pitch and enjoying training sessions etc.
Poor finishing for two decent chances. Should've gone near post with that one on one that he hit straight at keeper.
Boy that's cruel. I hope Jesse never reads this, he might get depressed..
I remember that game well. He was absolutely brilliant. Us and Chelsea were both linked at the time and I was desperate for us to sign him.
Read the thread. It's an orgy of kneejerk nonsense. Good posts are pretty rare.So everyone elses posts on Lingard on RedCafe are stupid? Ok then
If Lingard could just put the pieces together consistently he'd be such a good player. He gets into some fantastic positions, his off the ball movement is genuinely superb. When he's on his game his finishing is good too. Yet he has far too many off days with his finishing. It just shows how much pressure can affect footballers. When he was younger, particularly when he was out on loan, Jesse's finishing was one of the strongest parts of his game. Now its totally hit and miss.
The only threat last night was from Sisto and as in most matches when Lingard is supposed to play on the right he drifts into the middle and Valencia is on his own on the right.
I don't remember one single tackle by Lingard or block and even if his defensive qualities were there why play such a physically weak player doing that job, an opposition player touches him and he's knocked off the ball, even Mata who is small doesn't get shoved off the ball so easily.
Playing with 3 up top like last night he is supposed to be one of three providing threat, he gets into a position but being so poor technically he cannot finish. There was a clip last night, when Lingard missed the third chance, of Mourinho going psycho in the dugout.
He only plays because he is judged as putting in a great effort, which no-one will deny but that is nowhere near sufficient for us.
Apparently he single handedly won the three matches at Wembley but even if one agreed with that, if he hadn't played in any other matches it would not have made our season any worse because his contribution is negligible.
Really? Maybe at youth level but I can't comment on that as I don't follow the youth sides. His best goal scoring spell was out on loan with Birmingham but 4 of his 6 goals came in the same game. He's never been a good goal scorer at senior level but I have no idea about youth level.
Sadly I think Lingard is just one of those players that is nearly good enough to play for United but I really want him to do well. His best postion is attacking midfield and not as a winger.
Does the player needs to make a tackle to show he's defending ? If this is measure of defending of wings then most wings in the world aren't defending at all. His back-tracking to support Valencia is considered defensive role.
He was drifting to the middle when we were attacking but when we're on the defense he always goes to the right flank to support Valencia. The fact that the right flank was very quiet from their attacks proves we closed it very well on them. His movements and pace are needed in such conditions.
No one is arguing he was atrocious on the offensive side.
Kneejerk nonsense? it's week after week after week for nearly two years because people can see he's not good enough consistently.
We note that good posts = Lingard is wonderful
As I recall, he didn't miss many chances. It wasn't a case of him getting into great positions and constantly blasting it wide. He just didn't get great opportunities in the lower leagues. When he did though, he was quite good at sticking it in the net.
It has nothing to do with being pro or anti Lingard. The quality of the posts in this and the other player performance threads are severely lacking.
The only 'kneejerk' posts in this thread are the ones when he scores such as 'take that haters'. The general theme of this thread is that he's not really good enough so hardly 'kneejerk' when people strengthen their case after yet another poor display. Good posts in a thread shouldn't equate to posts that you agree with. No matter how much people like certain players, they should at least be able to have some semblance of objectivity.
No the left flank wasn't quiet, Sisto was on the left flank, Celta didn't offer much threat but what they did came from the left hand side because Valencia was on his own - this sound like how good he is acclaimed for his good movement going forward and is better when he doesn't touch the ball, does it apply when he doesn't touch the ball in his defensive role as well. We could always play a cone instead, would be cheaper and perhaps more effective.
Possibly. The only time I really saw him consistently would have been at Derby and he was outshone regularly by Ince and didn't impress me at all. I'm pretty sure Ibe came in after him or was there before him on loan and looked better too. Can't really comment on his other loan spells. I don't think he looks like a natural finisher at all.
Celta made only 2 chances through the game so yes we kept them very quiet on the flanks through the games thanks to our backs and wings efforts in defense to close these sides.
I agree his on-ball movement is crap and needs to be improved but his off-ball movement what made him good in such kind of games.
Again no one's saying he's a great player or must be a starter. I have explained this a lot he's a squad player at best, no one is saying otherwise but he has his values in some games, in other games he's of no need.
Well no. There is also the "He's shit", "Sell him now" brigade to balance the "Take that haterz".
Making a statement such as this thread is "an orgy of kneejerk nonsense" is hardly improving the standard of discussion either. In fact I rarely see you make any comments regarding the pros/cons of Lingard, you seem more concerned with belittling those who don't think he's very good.
As an Admin who has been here 18 years, its well within my purview. This no longer has anything to do with Lingard and everything to do with quality control.
Yeah well I would tend to ignore all those kinds (in general) of posts to be completely honest. But considering the overall theme of the thread has remained the same throughout the season, it's the 'haters/z' crew that I would have down as the 'knee jerkers'. If people can back up what they say then fair enough, or at the very least put up a decent argument but coming in here to brand people 'haters' certainly isn't doing so.
I mean do people actually hate him, like really? I seriously doubt it (bar maybe the odd exception). People don't think he's good enough and that's fair game. It's disingenuous to the extreme to suggest that there aren't any 'good' posts in this thread just because, well they don't concur with your opinions on him.
I agree that he is a squad player at best but he has played in more games than Carrick, Rooney, the same as Bailly and only a few games difference from Mata, Mkhi, Martial - a squad player does not get that many games, he will probably pass 80 games in the last two seasons, the majority as a starter, this is a serious problem for us if he's getting this much game time.
He has been used for rotation all the season I think , has only been a constant starter recently due to injuries hitting the squad but through the course of the season Mata and Mikhi were our main starters on the right flank, other than this he was used as any squad player I believe, coming from the bench or starting random games to rest the starters.
Him starting a lot recently boosted his number of games.
So because others don't agree with you opinion, it's poor posts? Surely the job of an admin is to promote good discussion from both sides, not just shoot anyone down who has a different opinion to you. If everyone has to have the same opinion which fits the positive (and deluded with Lingard) narrative, then isn't that everything that RAWK gets slagged off for?
Lingard's end product is very poor and at the end of the day RW/RFs are judged by goals and assists. His general link up play is good but it does not matter if you can't provide that final pass or score goals from 8-12 yards out. His decision making and finishing is not of premier league top 4 team quality. He should not be starting more than 50% of our games next season.
Ultimately people think there's 'real fan' kudos out of defending a player with a local accent. They might not admit to it but that's pretty much what it is, isn't it? If he was Spanish, or heaven forbid cockney there wouldn't be people every week insisting that his constant sub-par performances don't matter because there's also another player who also plays poorly every game.
The only scenario where people will accept Lingard criticism as valid is if everyone else has the game of their life. Even then you suspect more excuses will be made.
Wanting to be seen to defend the local lad is definitely a thing. Nobody goes into the Daley Blind thread and responds to criticism with "Oh and I think Martial's poor performance is okay then is it?" Yet that's pretty much all we get here.
1) Point to someone else who also played badly
2) Mention that some people 'hate' him
3) Ignore reality and pretend he was 'decent', then repeat 1)
When I've felt Lingard has done okay in this thread I've said so but the near-cultish defence of him as if he's the black Jeremy Corbyn is frankly fecking odd.
The only scenario where people will accept Lingard criticism as valid is if everyone else has the game of their life. Even then you suspect more excuses will be made.
Wanting to be seen to defend the local lad is definitely a thing. Nobody goes into the Daley Blind thread and responds to criticism with "Oh and I think Martial's poor performance is okay then is it?" Yet that's pretty much all we get here.
1) Point to someone else who also played badly
2) Mention that some people 'hate' him
3) Ignore reality and pretend he was 'decent', then repeat 1)
When I've felt Lingard has done okay in this thread I've said so but the near-cultish defence of him as if he's the black Jeremy Corbyn is frankly fecking odd.
Ok, you can stop derailing this thread with your crusade for having a right to criticize Lingard.
Where do you see his position next season, on the assumption that we will sign at least one or maybe two attacking players, Rashford and Martial improving further as they develop with age, Mkhi more accustomed to the league and hopefully Mata still here which all should push him down the pecking order.
Theoretically that wouldn't even get him on the bench except for the odd cup game.
But if this is the case why does he get a long term contract and vastly increased wages. It doesn't add up.
Will remain as a squad player but his appearance will decrease a lot from last 2 seasons ( this season and the previous one ) depending on the players.
The wage think was stupid from the board. I criticized it heavily at this time and it's unjustified to give a squad player 100K per week no matter how anyone says otherwise, no squad player should receive such a wage by any means. However, I was predicting him to stay as the club needs as many local players as possible who can be any good at the club and Lingard fills the criteria for being a local kid. The wage thing was idiotic from Ed, though. He should have never passed 50K at maximum.
His age is also an issue for me because he isn't the quality of player I'd expect a regular started for a top club to be. He's 25 at the end of this year. And I know some people mature at different ages but are there really that examples of where players hit 25 (assuming there isn't a massive improvement in the next 7 months) and aren't at least well on their way to becoming the player they've the potential to become?
I know certain players mature late but in those scenarios it's an unexpected surprise, not something to be relied upon. There's going to have to be pretty remarkable upwards trajectory in Lingard's performance/ability on the scale that I can't immediately think of any precedent of.
I know certain players mature late but in those scenarios it's an unexpected surprise, not something to be relied upon. There's going to have to be pretty remarkable upwards trajectory in Lingard's performance/ability on the scale that I can't immediately think of any precedent of.
Was terrible in front of goal last night. Was nice to see him involved when Rashford was being subbed though.
In a 1v1 situation I'd trust every starting midfielder and attacker over him to score.
For a player with such a clever running and movement, it's a damn shame that he is so poor with his finishing. Unless, it's Wembley, of course.
Nevertheless, he is a very good option to have in the squad. Don't expect him as a starter next season but I would be pissed if we sold him. Also, he can stay and work extra hour with Rashford on his shooting technique.
Nevertheless, he is a very good option to have in the squad. Don't expect him as a starter next season but I would be pissed if we sold him. Also, he can stay and work extra hour with Rashford on his shooting technique.
This is spot on. Re the bolded part: Funnily enough, I recognise a-lot of the same posters (his staunch fans) in this thread that used to defend Welbeck to the death down the years so there's definitely something in what you say.
Some tried to claim he was decent against Swansea - in what was honestly one of his worst ever performances for us - so I asked my United supporting mates what they thought and checked various ratings sites, and the overall consensus was that he was absolutely terrible. Funny how some could view that performance as 'decent' but no one else can see what was actually decent about it.
He wasn't as poor last night, granted. But still, he was pretty average at best and his misses were pretty shocking for a so-called attacking player.
Agreed with this. I think the frustration comes with that he's over exposed. If he was a cameo here, cameo there and filling in for injuries and suspensions when need be nobody would have a problem with him.
I'm from Manchester and I don't rate him. I like seeing young local lads in the team but only if they're good enough and he just isn't.
He's fine as backup option or as someone to do the donkey work against the big teams but if we're relying on him to provide quality or inspiration then we're in trouble.
He's been a brilliant player for us for the past 2 years. He doesn't look fancy or sound fancy, that's his problem.
People keep banging on about how someone else could be a squad player, the Ox, yadda yadda. That bodyguard job is the sort of thing that others would rarely do, it showed some of the qualities required from what we usually had as strong squad players. You also can't argue against his movement and his workrate, which is what José clearly rates for this sort of away game. After the goal I instantly stopped wanting Martial on for him, to put it simply.
The problem is his maturity, he is a bit of an airhead. He is still hanging around as if he were an exciting youth prospect who needs to polish a few things. His finishing and, specifically, his composure under pressure is all over the shop. Needs to grow up and start owning up to his responsibilities, train harder, etc. because the talent is there.
He should look at his mate Pogba and realise he can dab and all that, but also be fully focused on the job at hand once on the pitch.
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