Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Classical Mechanic said:
Say what?
Click to expand...

Yes. I said it. As part of an entire post.

Who was at fault?

He laid a wreath that honoured/respected dead people. I don't give a shit about Corbyn. I'm English, but don't live there. I don't have a dog In This fight.

[Do know that I'm not discussing the potential issues around funding]

If it comes out that the true nature of the trip was;

"Jeremy, please come out and lay a wreath at the faves of these 100 people, 17 of which were terrorists that killed 342 people"

Then yes, crucify him. But to my knowledge we are nowhere near that. If you can point me in the right direction to change my view, by all means do.
 
balaks said:
Absolutely right. Corbyn has a dubious past at best and it is coming back to bite him on the arse - that isn't the press hounding him - that is Corbyn being chummy with terrorists (some of which at the time were actively trying to kill British people).

Labour need to keep some of his policies and keep to the left as I think there is an opportunity for them there (and as a left-leaning guy I would like to see some of his ideas actually become reality) but they need to get rid of Corbyn and replace him with somebody who who is sympathetic to many of the ideas he is trying to push but without all the baggage as you said which is holding them back. We need Labour to be strong right now to hold the Government to account. What we do not need is Corbyn.
Click to expand...

"Chummy with Terrorists" - Maybe I'm missing this. How? Why? When? That sounds like narrative.

Maybe the news isn't getting to me. But what are the facts here?
 
This is JC's own doing. He needs to get a more media savvy team and buy the same influence Israel and the Tory party are buying to bring him down. It's no point having the Guardian and the independent on your side, you need to buy some of the crooked red-top editors. Stuffed envelopes win elections just as much as ballots do.
 
balaks said:
Absolutely right. Corbyn has a dubious past at best and it is coming back to bite him on the arse - that isn't the press hounding him - that is Corbyn being chummy with terrorists (some of which at the time were actively trying to kill British people).
Click to expand...

Well it depends what you mean by 'hounding him'.

We all know that the press in this country is overwhelmingly right wing, and as a result they're going to be more interested in going after the left wing leader of the Labour party than the right wing leader of the Conservative party. That's just the reality of where we are as a country and the landscape that we're in politically. If people are comfortable calling that 'hounding' him then fine.

What doesn't follow is that if and when they find dirt you can then dismiss it by going 'fake news, smear, witch-hunt' or whatever bit of Trump's playbook you're borrowing from today. I've said this before, but there is absolutely no way Corbyn supporters would have let – say – a Boris Johnson off with an excuse of 'I didn't look at the mural I commented on'. Nor would a Conservative MP have been given the benefit of the doubt changing their story three times about why there were at an event like this current standard.

If Labour are being held to higher standards then fecking reach those higher standards rather than wallowing around in the mud with the rest of the cnuts.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
"Chummy with Terrorists" - Maybe I'm missing this. How? Why? When? That sounds like narrative.

Maybe the news isn't getting to me. But what are the facts here?
Click to expand...

He was close to the IRA in the 1980's and spoke against the Anglo-Irish agreement at the time. He also spoke in support and rememberance of IRA members at a time when they were actively trying to kill people. That is just one example.
 
balaks said:
Another way to put it would be if Corbyn's media team were more skilled at managing the press (and Corbyn himself was not totally incompetant and putting himself in situations that are an easy hit against him) and Corbyn was strong enough to gain the support of all his MP's then he would be in a much better place.
Click to expand...

It’s not about how he manages the media though. The right wing press will never report on him fairly until he is prepared to compromise with them and make the sort of cosy deals politicians usually make. Why else is Dacre having dinner with May, if not to influence policy?

Corbyn’s popularity has been down to the fact that people see him as someone who won’t compromise on his beliefs... a politician that can’t be bought is something of a rarity.

Unfortunately, the media are still able to do a fair bit of damage to his chances of being elected... hence why he isn’t polling far ahead like he probably should be. Having said that, their impact lessens by the day because people start to see through it... especially younger voters who are less reliant on traditional media. He has been getting hit with negative stories on an almost daily basis since taking the leadership - many of which are just plain false or ridiculous. After a while, it becomes like the boy who cried wolf. They are now turning him into Teflon... and they keep throwing stuff at him, but it just won’t stick because they’ve lost all trust.
 
balaks said:
He was close to the IRA in the 1980's and spoke against the Anglo-Irish agreement at the time. He also spoke in support and rememberance of IRA members at a time when they were actively trying to kill people. That is just one example.
Click to expand...

Ok. You wrote it as if the 'actively trying to kill people' was linked to the Tunisia trip.

Will read into the IRA stuff before discussing further.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Yes. I said it. As part of an entire post.

Who was at fault?

He laid a wreath that honoured/respected dead people. I don't give a shit about Corbyn. I'm English, but don't live there. I don't have a dog In This fight.

[Do know that I'm not discussing the potential issues around funding]

If it comes out that the true nature of the trip was;

"Jeremy, please come out and lay a wreath at the faves of these 100 people, 17 of which were terrorists that killed 342 people"

Then yes, crucify him. But to my knowledge we are nowhere near that. If you can point me in the right direction to change my view, by all means do.
Click to expand...

He's an elected MP. He should know what he's doing in situations like this, otherwise he should expect to face big criticism for it.

He's supposedly very well versed in the history of these conflicts so he has no excuse.
 
ZupZup said:
It’s not about how he manages the media though. The right wing press will never report on him fairly until he is prepared to compromise with them and make the sort of cosy deals politicians usually make. Why else is Dacre having dinner with May, if not to influence policy?

Corbyn’s popularity has been down to the fact that people see him as someone who won’t compromise on his beliefs... a politician that can’t be bought is something of a rarity.

Unfortunately, the media are still able to do a fair bit of damage to his chances of being elected... hence why he isn’t polling far ahead like he probably should be. Having said that, their impact lessens by the day because people start to see through it... especially younger voters who are less reliant on traditional media. He has been getting hit with negative stories on an almost daily basis since taking the leadership - many of which are just plain false or ridiculous. After a while, it becomes like the boy who cried wolf. They are now turning him into Teflon... and they keep throwing stuff at him, but it just won’t stick because they’ve lost all trust.
Click to expand...

The right wing press always give the Labour leader grief, that is nothing new. Why the outrage when they do it to Corbyn?
 
Nuts said:
But imagine if Corbyn had a slightly fairer press (ie: anywhere short of the daily lynching he’s getting from all angles) and had all his MPs united behind him.

That’s what is so difficult to understand - that there are Labour MPs apparently so idealogically opposed to Corbyn that they’d rather sabotage him and keep the Tories in.

There’s no question, for me, that without the smear campaign and disloyal Labour MPs he’d be ahead.
Click to expand...

You're referencing the Evening Standard and Daily Telegraph as examples of this "smear campaign". Feck it, why not include the Daily Mail too? Because all of these publications have been doing their best to crucify whoever is in charge of Labour for most of the last century (probably even longer?) If that level of "sabotage" is enough to derail Jezza's campaign to be the PM then maybe Labour need a new leader?
 
Shamwow said:
Remember the 6 months+ after May became leader and the media basically treated her as the second coming of Christ who would marry Tory competence with more left wing values?
Click to expand...

Again with this "the media" as some sort of amorphous mass. The right-wing media fecking love the Tories, the left-wing media don't. Where Corbyn kind of treads new ground is by repeatedly putting his foot in it to the extent that traditionally left-leaning papers like the Grauniad end up putting him under scrutiny too (the anti-semitism stuff)
 
Zlatattack said:
This is JC's own doing. He needs to get a more media savvy team and buy the same influence Israel and the Tory party are buying to bring him down. It's no point having the Guardian and the independent on your side, you need to buy some of the crooked red-top editors. Stuffed envelopes win elections just as much as ballots do.
Click to expand...

The Mirror have been positioning themselves as the anti-Sun for a while now. They're a red top just waiting to throw themselves behind a Labour leader who could be seen as a serious threat to the Tories.
 
Zlatattack said:
This is JC's own doing. He needs to get a more media savvy team and buy the same influence Israel and the Tory party are buying to bring him down. It's no point having the Guardian and the independent on your side, you need to buy some of the crooked red-top editors. Stuffed envelopes win elections just as much as ballots do.
Click to expand...

Which is what Blair did but Corbyn is content with the #wearehismedia nonsense i.e. talking to themselves.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Which is what Blair did but Corbyn is content with the #wearehismedia nonsense i.e. talking to themselves.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's utter nonsense. Imran Khan learnt that on the 2013 elections in Pakistan. This time round he spent huge amounts of private media channels and newspapers to buy advertising and have anchors invite their people onto the shows etc, get into people's living rooms and thoughts for the right reasons!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Again with this "the media" as some sort of amorphous mass. The right-wing media fecking love the Tories, the left-wing media don't. Where Corbyn kind of treads new ground is by repeatedly putting his foot in it to the extent that traditionally left-leaning papers like the Grauniad end up putting him under scrutiny too (the anti-semitism stuff)
Click to expand...
I’d hesitate to call the Grauniad a genuine left wing paper, in recent years at least anyway. You’ll find an abundance of progressive columns on progressive tenets such as feminism and climate change but they’ve become more distorted with partisan politics. They backed the Tory-Lib Dem coalition in 2010 and have always endorsed Corbyn’s Labour opponents at his expense on account of him not appealing enough to the centre ground.

They even recently wrote a frankly nauseating article blaming Green Party voters in the States for Trumps victory because they had the audacity not to vote for Hillary feckin Clinton.

Yes it’s still the go-to paper for vegan recipes and guest pieces on how to be a stay at home dad, but I wouldn’t dignify it to be a genuine left wing paper in a political sense.
 
Dobba said:
And all it took was a promise to not investigate Hillsborough.

The mere presence of Corbyn has people so rattled that they're actually calling for a politician to get into bed with Murdoch :lol:
Click to expand...

Using the media to your advantage doesn't have to involve the compromising of morals in such a way. Shunning the media completely is foolish.

It does amuse me though, knowing that you've been hanging around this thread waiting for the moment you can throw one of your Tony Blair zingers out.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Using the media to your advantage doesn't have to involve the compromising of morals in such a way. Shunning the media completely is foolish.

It does amuse me though, knowing that you've been hanging around this thread waiting for the moment you can throw one of your Tony Blair zingers out.
Click to expand...
You're the one who cited him as an example of what to do. I mean, there is a chance that you just forgot to mention him helping cover up Hillsborough for the best part of another decade, in fear of upsetting his beloved friend Murdoch and were going to mention it in your next post. But, just in case, I thought I'd do it for you.

I love the idea that all Corbyn needs to do is cuddle up to these cnuts in the media and they'll definitely not turn their back on him when he wants to tighten tax loopholes or implement Leveson 2. And they sure as shit wouldn't want to influence any other policy in return for their endorsement.
 
Last edited:
Kaos said:
I’d hesitate to call the Grauniad a genuine left wing paper, in recent years at least anyway. You’ll find an abundance of progressive columns on progressive tenets such as feminism and climate change but they’ve become more distorted with partisan politics. They backed the Tory-Lib Dem coalition in 2010 and have always endorsed Corbyn’s Labour opponents at his expense on account of him not appealing enough to the centre ground.

They even recently wrote a frankly nauseating article blaming Green Party voters in the States for Trumps victory because they had the audacity not to vote for Hillary feckin Clinton.

Yes it’s still the go-to paper for vegan recipes and guest pieces on how to be a stay at home dad, but I wouldn’t dignify it to be a genuine left wing paper in a political sense.
Click to expand...

Anyone in the States who didn't vote for Hilary Clinton is partly to blame for the Trump victory, so that's a poor example of the Grauniad's allegedly crappy editorial policy. They're definitely left-leaning anyway and it's a massive fecking stretch to pitch them as anti-Corbyn when they publish a new Owen Jones piece blowing smoke up his arse on an almost daily basis.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Get your head out of your ass. He laid a wreath on a grave.
Click to expand...

My post was a light-hearted response to a quite ridiculous statement. How could someone inadvertently lay a wreath? In Tunisia.

Congratulations on missing that in your desperation to protect dear Jeremy's honour. Furthermore, congratulations on writing something even more ridiculous than the post I replied to:

UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I'll go as far as saying that if any person asked me to lay a wreath at a grave, I would.

If it turned out to be the rapist child molester murderer of 100 babies, I'd still feel that I acted authentically. I would not feel bad in any way, shape or form.
Click to expand...

You're on a roll champ!

Side note - I've got a wreath I was hoping you wouldn't mind laying for me. That's cool yeah? Meet me in the Libyan desert and I'll point you in the right direction.
 
Last edited:
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
"Chummy with Terrorists" - Maybe I'm missing this. How? Why? When? That sounds like narrative.

Maybe the news isn't getting to me. But what are the facts here?
Click to expand...

Depends who you consider 'terrorists'. He has literally described members of Hamas and Hezbollah as 'friends', shared stages with them, etc.
 
Zlatattack said:
This is JC's own doing. He needs to get a more media savvy team and buy the same influence Israel and the Tory party are buying to bring him down. It's no point having the Guardian and the independent on your side, you need to buy some of the crooked red-top editors. Stuffed envelopes win elections just as much as ballots do.
Click to expand...

Or Labour could get rid of Corbyn and put in someone who doesn’t give its enemies so many easy, easy targets. He is unelectable. One day enough Labour members will realise all this time wasting, energy sapping nonsense is a poor substitute for actually being able to wield power, and move him aside.
 
Donk87 said:
My post was a light-hearted response to a quite ridiculous statement. How could someone inadvertently lay a wreath? In Tunisia.

Congratulations on missing that in your desperation to protect dear Jeremy's honour. Furthermore, congratulations on writing something even more ridiculous than the post I replied to:



You're on a roll champ!

Side note - I've got a wreath I was hoping you wouldn't mind laying for me. That's cool yeah? Meet me in the Libyan desert and I'll point you in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Read the rest. And the rest after that. You ridiculous knobber. I'm not a Corbyn fan. At all.

I have a clear line of sight through the whole thing.

Yes. I could be wrong. I'm an expat in NZ, on holiday. I've asked other posters for more info, openly and admitted I'm happy to be wrong.

Your post was ridiculous. I wrote something even more ridiculous, but authentic.

Again. If someone asked me to lay a wreath on a dead persons grave, I will. It sucks that anyone is dead. If I later find out that the grave was a dispicable person, I'm ok with that. MY actions would remain authentic. The requestors actions would be wrong.
 
2cents said:
Depends who you consider 'terrorists'. He has literally described members of Hamas and Hezbollah as 'friends', shared stages with them, etc.
Click to expand...

Got a link or topic I could read? Something lengthy? Save me hunting one down.
 
Un4givableB said:
More fake outrage about from the British establishment about a wreath.
Click to expand...

It’s about what the wreath symbolises, and his shifty response, as if he knew what he’d done and resented being held to account for it.
 
nickm said:
Or Labour could get rid of Corbyn and put in someone who doesn’t give its enemies so many easy, easy targets. He is unelectable. One day enough Labour members will realise all this time wasting, energy sapping nonsense is a poor substitute for actually being able to wield power, and move him aside.
Click to expand...
This is always fun. Who are you thinking?

Also, I adore the line that he's unelectable but everyone who says he needs to be replaced want him to stand aside so they don't have to run against him.
 
nickm said:
Or Labour could get rid of Corbyn and put in someone who doesn’t give its enemies so many easy, easy targets. He is unelectable. One day enough Labour members will realise all this time wasting, energy sapping nonsense is a poor substitute for actually being able to wield power, and move him aside.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's too late to get Dennis Skinner running for PM?
 
Nuts said:
But imagine if Corbyn had a slightly fairer press (ie: anywhere short of the daily lynching he’s getting from all angles) and had all his MPs united behind him.

That’s what is so difficult to understand - that there are Labour MPs apparently so idealogically opposed to Corbyn that they’d rather sabotage him and keep the Tories in.

There’s no question, for me, that without the smear campaign and disloyal Labour MPs he’d be ahead.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that if everyone was kind to Jeremy, he’d be ahead?

The truth is if Corbyn didn’t divide opinion so badly, he would be ahead. But he does spilt opinion, for valid reasons, and that’s why he’s not ahead.
 
Zlatattack said:
I wonder if it's too late to get Dennis Skinner running for PM?
Click to expand...

Skinner's great on a lot and has always been a good speaker, but a bit of a relic in a lot of respects, never seemed interested in it, and is also pro-Brexit.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Read the rest. And the rest after that. You ridiculous knobber. I'm not a Corbyn fan. At all.

I have a clear line of sight through the whole thing.

Yes. I could be wrong. I'm an expat in NZ, on holiday. I've asked other posters for more info, openly and admitted I'm happy to be wrong.

Your post was ridiculous. I wrote something even more ridiculous, but authentic.

Again. If someone asked me to lay a wreath on a dead persons grave, I will. It sucks that anyone is dead. If I later find out that the grave was a dispicable person, I'm ok with that. MY actions would remain authentic. The requestors actions would be wrong.
Click to expand...

So you admit you don't know what you're talking about? Good stuff. Given you acknowledge that it might be an idea to tone down your posting. Know nothing billy big bollocks is not a good look.

Your statement on laying a wreath is still dumb no matter how authentic you believe your actions would be. Adults are responsible for their own actions (though your playground choice of insult might explain why you fail to understand this).
 
Cheesy said:
Skinner's great on a lot and has always been a good speaker, but a bit of a relic in a lot of respects, never seemed interested in it, and is also pro-Brexit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what we really need is a young person who's left wing in Labour. We don't have any at the moment, they're all too blairite.
 
Donk87 said:
So you admit you don't know what you're talking about? Good stuff. Given you acknowledge that it might be an idea to tone down your posting. Know nothing billy big bollocks is not a good look.

Your statement on laying a wreath is still dumb no matter how authentic you believe your actions would be. Adults are responsible for their own actions (though your playground choice of insult might explain why you fail to understand this).
Click to expand...

No. It's not. Authenticity trumps absolute knowledg for me. I'm not an asshat that runs through life looking for downside. I'm an optimist that places faith in people.

I've literally suggested that I'd own my own actions and place adequate blame on those that sought to deceive me or take advantage of my good nature. In my thought problem I accept that it would be my fault that I laid the wreath. But my original intent would still be authentic and I wouldn't regret it.

I had no knowledge of Corbyn and potential IRA ties. I'm in an airport waiting lounge. I haven't explored. Which is why I told @balaks that I'd read more, then comment.

Your response is typical of an Internet forum. "He admitted he doesn't know X, I'll take that as evidence he's not familiar with the alphabet". Go play with your damn crayons. Comment again when you understand subtlety and nuance.

It's possible to hold two issues in your head that run contrary to each other. Give it a go. Take a paracetamol if your head starts ringing.
 
Donk87 said:
So you admit you don't know what you're talking about? Good stuff. Given you acknowledge that it might be an idea to tone down your posting. Know nothing billy big bollocks is not a good look.

Your statement on laying a wreath is still dumb no matter how authentic you believe your actions would be. Adults are responsible for their own actions (though your playground choice of insult might explain why you fail to understand this).
Click to expand...

No. It's not. Authenticity trumps absolute knowledg for me. I'm not an asshat that runs through life looking for downside. I'm an optimist that places faith in people.

I've literally suggested that I'd own my own actions and place adequate blame on those that sought to deceive me or take advantage of my good nature. In my thought problem I accept that it would be my fault that I laid the wreath. But my original intent would still be authentic and I wouldn't regret it.

I had no knowledge of Corbyn and potential IRA ties. I'm in an airport waiting lounge. I haven't explored. Which is why I told @balaks that I'd read more, then comment.

Your response is typical of an Internet forum. "He admitted he doesn't know X, I'll take that as evidence he's not familiar with the alphabet". Go play with your damn crayons. Comment again when you understand subtlety and nuance.

It's possible to hold two issues in your head that run contrary to each other. Give it a go. Take a paracetamol if your head starts ringing.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Got a link or topic I could read? Something lengthy? Save me hunting one down.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.pol...ng-hamas-friends-hezbollah-anti-semitism/amp/

Another example would be referring to one of the planners of a 2003 suicide attack in Jerusalem as "brother" and saying that he's glad the guy was released from prison (he'd been serving seven life sentences but was released as part of the Gilad Shalit exchange deal) -https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...r-a3899281.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
 
You must log in or register to reply here.