Someone tweets their support, a well known looney. More trolling added. Is it one or the other, is it the same standard applied? Oh my god you want your cake and eat it.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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One of the themes of this thread over the weekend was to suggest that Jewish protest was illegitimate and insincere because of who joined them on the protest, wasn't it?
Maybe I'm imagining those Tweets showing various Tory MPs on the protest supporting it. If someone nutty supports something I dislike it undermines the cause. If someone nutty supports someone I do like anyone who points it and my hypocrisy out is a troll. Okay.
Maybe I'm imagining those Tweets showing various Tory MPs on the protest supporting it. If someone nutty supports something I dislike it undermines the cause. If someone nutty supports someone I do like anyone who points it and my hypocrisy out is a troll. Okay.
I can't say I've seen anyone here use that argument. But I did see you question the Jewish Voice for Labour counter protest, because, uh, reasons.
Reasons were that sending out anyone to shout down someone who feels they are a victim of discrimination is a really bad look.
Guess it might take those not part of the League Of Gentlemen-like 'This is a Corbyn thread for Corbyn people' to realise just how utterly warped it is that is no longer considered self-evident.
Who do you think sent them out?
Was it these people who called the protesters a 'very powerful special interest group'?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-special-interest-group-jewish-a8278761.html
EDIT: That may be an example of that antisemitism thing the party definitely doesn't have a problem with.
Most Corbyn supporters are pretty accepting by now of the fact that he will get attacked by the media regardless. It's been an unavoidable aspect of his tenure and often has less to do with his actions and more to do with those doing the attacking.
See... in this alternate universe where Corbyn doesn't attend the event because some adviser has told him that it wouldn't be wise... all that happens is the headlines change to "CORBYN REFUSES INVITE TO JEWISH EVENT IN HIS CONSTITUENCY"... and it would be framed as anti-semitic.
Of course it would. But part of that is down to the cheery disengagement with the media.
I don't really understand the strategy. The hard left seem to acknowledge the right-wing media as predominate, pervasive and highly influential, but at the same time seem to want to pretend that it doesn't matter if he engages with them in a way previous leaders have. Especially when the ultimate aim is presumably to secure power. Surely the utterly chaotic media handling routinely gets in the way of achieving that aim. I struggle with the idea that anyone who supports him and wants him in number 10 would cheer that.
Similarly I struggle with anyone who can look at this morning's coverage and pretend that anyone who thinks it's a sign that his media handling needs to improve, is wrong.
what does this have to do with the question I asked you?
it also doesn't seem very anti-semitic writing to Jeremy that they trust him to deal with said anti-semitism
It's all about controlling the narrative.
Acknowledging the press is influential yet pretending you can ignore it and achieve power is a contradiction. Team Corbyn's media handling is problematic, demonstrated by how routinely the media narrative runs away with them and overshadows whatever message it is he'd prefer to convey.
That really isn't even a controversial or anti-Corbyn point but some people are so uncomfortable at anything that isn't complete praise that even that gets people's backs up. Even when criticism is at those who aren't helping Corbyn - it's wrong. Trolling, in fact.
Acknowledging the press is influential yet pretending you can ignore it and achieve power is a contradiction. Team Corbyn's media handling is problematic, demonstrated by how routinely the media narrative runs away with them and overshadows whatever message it is he'd prefer to convey.
That really isn't even a controversial or anti-Corbyn point but some people are so uncomfortable at anything that isn't complete praise that even that gets people's backs up. Even when criticism is at those who aren't helping Corbyn - it's wrong. Trolling, in fact.
worked well enough when they got the biggest swing since 1945
Yeah, and I bet the Tories really hated their shitty 'winning' consolation prize. Showed them.
These last few pages summed up..
Me: The media coverage doesn't look good. Corbyn really needs people around him who're better at media handling who can control these things
Others: HOW DARE YOU!!!
There's literally nothing that can be said unless it's complete praise that people are receptive to.
Me: The media coverage doesn't look good. Corbyn really needs people around him who're better at media handling who can control these things
Others: HOW DARE YOU!!!
There's literally nothing that can be said unless it's complete praise that people are receptive to.
I think "vote-share increase" is a better way of framing it, since swing is typically calculated as the average movement between the two major parties.
You think the conservative party was happy losing their majority to what we're constantly told is the least electable person in the history of time?
Maybe we should get Labours second favourite Miliband brother, that'll get people excited!
It's another one of those 'sign of the times' things, I guess. Never thought I'd ever see the day Labour actually celebrated the result of an election the Tories won.
But again, to not to so might be seen to be slightly critical of Corbyn's leadership and that will never, ever do. So here we are.
"Second. Woop!"
But again, to not to so might be seen to be slightly critical of Corbyn's leadership and that will never, ever do. So here we are.
"Second. Woop!"
So Labour's swing in the last election was all down to Corbyn and his policies? Nothing to do with voting for the (only viable) opposite of the cnuts known as the Tories?
Thought it was pretty clear the latter had a significant amount to do with that swing. Hence the amount of upset from remainers who voted Labour, now they've realised just how hard a Brexiteer Corbyn is.
Thought it was pretty clear the latter had a significant amount to do with that swing. Hence the amount of upset from remainers who voted Labour, now they've realised just how hard a Brexiteer Corbyn is.
Engaging with the right wing media as previous leaders have comes at a cost. Do you not think they get something back for their support? Do you not think it gives them influence over those in power... after they have helped to place them in the position they are in?
Most of Corbyn's supporters are behind him because it's not a price he is prepared to pay. To them, it makes him more honourable and principled than politicians past. Much of the younger generations now rely more on social media for their news and political commentary... the power of right-wing media lessens by the day and it won't be much longer before they find themselves on the losing side. It feels practically inevitable at this point.
Miliband was also the only viable option to the tories. Look how that turned out.
It seems rather hollow to me. Like finishing 2nd in a two-horse race but somehow claiming moral victory as you ran it faster than the person who didn't win it last time either. A Tory still ended up in number 10, we're still governed by a Tory agenda, we're still subject to a Tory Brexit. The fact Labour are the stage now where they're citing results of elections they didn't win as great achievements isn't really something I want to get used to.
Maybe that's just me.
There is a cost but eventually everyone has to dance with the devil. Anyone who wants to achieve anything in politics has to make strange bedfellows. Even Corbyn's shadow cabinets are filled with people who wouldn't usually give the time of day to him or visa versa. It's not a compromise on scale with cavorting up to the Daily Mail but the closer you get to power the more you find yourself having to work with people you dislike, or even at times find repugnant. As I mentioned last night if Corbyn gets to Number 10 then the left of the Labour party wouldn't ever really have been in this position before as all previous Labour PMs came from other wings of the party. Essentially the left of the Labour party has been in perpetual opposition for about 70 years.
Corbyn is only a Brexiter in as much as he wants a soft brexit but he doesn't want interference when it comes to the 'Radical Policies' he wants to introduce.
http://chronicle.gi/2018/03/jeremy-corbyn-sets-out-brexit-vision-in-labour-conference-speech/
Yeah, I really can't imagine why left wing voters might be excited by the trend that shows them a path to a left wing government. Such strange people.
Oh common who do you think you're fooling @Oscie? Do you really think the criticism you posted in the previous 20 pages of this thread boils down to "The media coverage doesn't look good. Corbyn really needs people around him who're better at media handling who can control these things"
?What do we want? Extraordinary rendition! When do we want it? Now!
The Tories had a shocking campaign which let Corbyn back in, but it's also undeniable he run a shrewd and effective campaign that helped him gain in popularity. One of the charges against was that he couldn't appeal beyond his base; he proved that's not the case.
I do think it's concerning Labour aren't mounting consistent poll leads at the moment though. Not sure what the alternative would be, right enough.
Can't deny people the enjoyment of a result like that when wipeout was predicted beforehand. I never thought it possible, let alone likely, even a month in advance. Needs to be accompanied by further improvement next time out to mean anything, of course, but given it's still ongoing, people are entitled to their optimism.
He's historically been a Eurosceptic and hasn't explicitly committed to remaining in the single market, and not remaining in the single market is tantamount to a hard Brexit. He'll probably commit eventually because a hard Brexit isn't really politically viable in regards to Northern Ireland but for now he's being very evasive on the issue.
Yeah, in a semi-ironic way Corbyn's initial unpopularity ended up benefiting him inadvertently because if he'd been polling well back in April 2016 there was no way May was calling a snap election, and we'd right now still have a Tory majority. And while I do agree any Labour optimism should be tempered by the fact they're still a long way off government, I do think the importance of having a genuinely motivated membership with a fairly clear direction they want to go on can't be understated. Even if that direction involves pretending Brexit isn't a thing when it's one of the biggest post-war issues we've faced.
The last election would have been a cake walk for any other post-Foot Labour leader. On paper the Tories had no rights winning that. Government in chaos that lost the referendum and had already governed by then for 7 years. Add to that May outed herself as the worst campaigning party leader in the modern history of British politics. Only by lowering expectations to levels I don't think any Labour voter should be comfortable accepting, was that 'not as shit as feared' election anything to be celebrated.
Of course Corbyn exceeded expectations but that's not a sign of much other than how low the expectations were.
I know. However he wants elements of being in Europe, he knows we can't really do without being in the Single Market and at the same time he can't really afford to go against the majority of his supporters who are Remainers can he? His Agenda is all about the gap between Rich and Poor and the taxing of 'Wealth Producers' which being subject to the EU's regulations won't allow.
On what basis? Blair was successful in his day but someone like him telling the electorate Brexit wasn't happening/wasn't going to be iterated in the way they want it to be would've been a disaster in that it'd have alienated a significant portion of the Labour voter-base which supported Brexit. Any analysis of how another leader would've coped has to recognise this.
He can't, but he's going to have to choose at one point. As it stands he hasn't committed to remaining in the single market, and as I said not being in the single market is tantamount to a hard Brexit. Whether he supports Brexit or not, he certainly isn't railing against it.
On the basis that what undermined those who didn't win was primarily their inability to 'win' the media. Kinnock not being successful in reaching out to the right-wing press, Brown looking like he'd had someone up his bum each time he tried to smile and Ed and his bacon sandwich and temerity to have a Dad once, much to the chagrin of the Daily Mail.
Even still all to a man handled the media better than Corbyn does. All would have managed the media in the 12 months in the run up to the election better than Corbyn did. Corbyn barely has any allies in the traditional liberal wings of the media that Brown, Kinnock and Milliband had. Were Team Corbyn to have concentrated on at least that then everything mightn't have been such an uphill struggle. Corbyn's lack of interest in making allies even among those in the media who might be considered generally sympathetic, has been a huge mistake.
On the basis of all the people who said that Labour would lose dozens of seats before the election.
Yeah, they'd definitely have overlooked the Labour manifesto's call to carry on with Leveson 2.
The Manifesto has committed, it's true that he hasn't, the backlash would finish him I'd have thought.
I thought the runner up would finish in 11.49 seconds. As it turned out he finished in 10.49 seconds. He still finished 2nd. I wasn't dramatically wrong overall.
Not winning isn't a great result because most people thought you'd do worse than you ended up doing. The idea that "Ah, look at all you doubters who said we'd lose. Okay, we lost but....ahh!! look at all you doubters!" is now the new toast of the party is utterly depressing.
I'm all for a Labour leader that depresses you because he doesn't see his primary job as being Dacre and Murdoch's political rentboy. Long may it continue.
I see Labour Friends of Israel have condemned Corbyn, their condemnation of the Israeli government for murdering Palestinian protesters must be lost in the post.
I see Labour Friends of Israel have condemned Corbyn, their condemnation of the Israeli government for murdering Palestinian protesters must be lost in the post.
Indeed, it's been ruled out on multiple occasions. As has retaining freedom of movement, with Corbyn criticising it as being used to drive wages down. It's a strange situation.