Javier Hernandez | 2013/14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Has Hernandez always been a scapegoat of the national team, due to how "limited" he is often perceived?

Yeah, totally, especially since people use the argument that since he plays for United, he should be doing Messi-esque stuff every time he lines up with the national team. Some time ago he wasn't a scapegoat because we didn't need one and he was scoring every single time, but since the team got somewhat divided with the previous manager and we couldn't score to save our lives he was turned into the scapegoat, even when he was scoring all of our goals.

2 days ago, though, it took a new level. He did miss an important penalty and we could have missed the world cup if it weren't for a great goal over-the-head kick in the last minutes by Jiménez, the Mexican equivalent of Beckham's 92 minute at OT. Twitter is now full of hatred for Hernández, people have seemd to forget all he's done for us in such a short period of time. "Limited" falls short of how badly some people percieve him here, including "pundits", commentators, journos, the fans, etc. Ungrateful bastards, if you ask me.
 
Yeah, totally, especially since people use the argument that since he plays for United, he should be doing Messi-esque stuff every time he lines up with the national team. Some time ago he wasn't a scapegoat because we didn't need one and he was scoring every single time, but since the team got somewhat divided with the previous manager and we couldn't score to save our lives he was turned into the scapegoat, even when he was scoring all of our goals.

2 days ago, though, it took a new level. He did miss an important penalty and we could have missed the world cup if it weren't for a great goal over-the-head kick in the last minutes by Jiménez, the Mexican equivalent of Beckham's 92 minute at OT. Twitter is now full of hatred for Hernández, people have seemd to forget all he's done for us in such a short period of time. "Limited" falls short of how badly some people percieve him here, including "pundits", commentators, journos, the fans, etc. Ungrateful bastards, if you ask me.

Good Lord, and I thought English fans were bad.

Scored 35 in 53 for Mexico... 3rd highest all time scorer for them, having played for just 4 years... almost guaranteed to end up their all time leading goalscorer... insane.
 
Good Lord, and I thought English fans were bad.

Scored 35 in 53 for Mexico... 3rd highest all time scorer for them, having played for just 4 years... almost guaranteed to end up their all time leading goalscorer... insane.

Not good enough in the build up..? :p:lol:

Genuinely speaking you do have to wonder about football fans sometimes. Any team would be lucky to have Javier Hernandez as an attacking option. If your side has a half chance in the box there are few you'd prefer it to drop to than Chicharito.
 
Good Lord, and I thought English fans were bad.

Scored 35 in 53 for Mexico... 3rd highest all time scorer for them, having played for just 4 years... almost guaranteed to end up their all time leading goalscorer... insane.

Ridiculous isn't it. What more do they want?
 
Yeah, it's insane. I absolutely love the lad, plus he is a big match player. Scored against Chelsea a lot of times, Liverpool, France, Italy, Argentina, Brasil (IRRC), Holland. The boy is inmense.
 
Apparently a lot of Mexicans are pushing for the young lad that scored the winner (Jiminez?) to replace him permanently in the starting line-up?
 
It's not as if Mexico are Spain, with hundreds of technically brilliant players. They have a few classy creative lads but none of their forwards exactly scream for inclusion. Given that Hernandez has become a perfectly respectable player in terms of the build-up, I don't see what they're complaining about. Enjoy his insanely regular goalscoring and focus on the many other areas of the pitch where they have worse players.

It reminds me of the Madrid fans always complaining about Ronaldo. Mind-boggling.
 
Apparently a lot of Mexicans are pushing for the young lad that scored the winner (Jiminez?) to replace him permanently in the starting line-up?

Yeah, and rightly so. I mean he doesn't have the credentials Hernandez has, but his goal deserves he starts on tuesday alongside the other scorer, Peralta. They have a great understanding of each other's game and complement very well. I do prefer Hernández ahead of both, but for the upcoming match I'd tell you we have to keep Jimenez's motivation high and make the most out of Peralta's undersanding of the former's game. If it ain't working, we have Chicharito on the bench, which is priceless.
 
Didn't Hernandez provide the assist for the winner?
Not sure he deserves to be put on the bench.
 
Didn't Hernandez provide the assist for the winner?
Not sure he deserves to be put on the bench.

Not for the winner, but for the first goal. A great one as well.

It's not that he deserves to be on the bench, it's that Jiménez deserves to be in the starting XI tomorrow, and his best partner is Oribe Peralta, who has also scored 2 of our last 3 goals in the qualifiers.
 
Not for the winner, but for the first goal. A great one as well.

It's not that he deserves to be on the bench, it's that Jiménez deserves to be in the starting XI tomorrow, and his best partner is Oribe Peralta, who has also scored 2 of our last 3 goals in the qualifiers.

I had read about Jimenez before and liked the sound of another mexican striker breaking through. However I haven't seen him play a match. Is it that he's another finisher like Hernandez? Or could the two be a good strikeforce together?
 
Seems as good a place to discuss as any: I'm starting to think that we're missing something with a non-pacy striker. Obviously RVP has all the technique in the world, but when he plays alone up top it does feel like defences can push up as he's not really a threat in behind. Most defenders in the league can catch him. It's a single match example, but Croatia simply couldn't handle Lukaku's pace when playing Belgium on Friday. It effected their entire defensive shape.

When we play with Rooney and RVP, we generally only have any pace out wide, and often only one side has true pace. We have none in midfield either. It's kind of simplistic, but I do wonder how much it's causing these 'slow motion' performances when we just can't get anything going in the final third.
 
I had read about Jimenez before and liked the sound of another mexican striker breaking through. However I haven't seen him play a match. Is it that he's another finisher like Hernandez? Or could the two be a good strikeforce together?

He's very good but still very young. He's 22 but one of the top strikers in the league nowadays, eating up the league just like Hernández before we signed him. He made a great partnership with Chucho Benítez (Valencia's friend who recently passed away). I wouldn't say he is a finisher, he is a more complete striker, strong and technically good, with great ability to play with another striker rather than alone, but he can do the job as a lone striker as well. He is also a Balotelli-like penalty taker and don't know if he has missed as of yet.

Could they be a strikeforce together? Yeah, if they have time together in the national team and we can find a system to accomodate that partnership. I think Jiménez will move to Europe soon. I really hope he does.

Here's the goal in case you haven't seen it (context: had we drawn with Panamá, which was the case in the 84th minute at the Azteca, and they managed to beat the States, we would be completely out of the World Cup, now we just have to avoid losing at Costa Rica or that the States avoid defeat vs Panamá - as I said, the equivalent of Beckham 93rd minute at OT 2001):

 
I reckon Hernandez will get more appearences this season if we are struggling for goals in open play again (hopefully not the case after sunderland), and I genuinely think now all the tough games are out of the way we can rotate, and Hernandez, Kagawa et al will get their starts. I still prefer him as a super sub, as he just scores more from the bench than he does when he starts.
 
I still prefer him as a super sub, as he just scores more from the bench than he does when he starts.

I'm with you on that. I'd like to see him brought on for the last 20 as a matter of course, rather than just an option for certain situations. That way we get the most out of him, and he is playing regularly enough to score goals and hopefully keep happy (throw in the odd start too, so he at least maintains full match fitness).
 
It'd be interesting to see what proportion of his goals have come from starts and what from subs. Can't be arsed to go and work it out for myself though.
 
Yeah, totally, especially since people use the argument that since he plays for United, he should be doing Messi-esque stuff every time he lines up with the national team. Some time ago he wasn't a scapegoat because we didn't need one and he was scoring every single time, but since the team got somewhat divided with the previous manager and we couldn't score to save our lives he was turned into the scapegoat, even when he was scoring all of our goals.

2 days ago, though, it took a new level. He did miss an important penalty and we could have missed the world cup if it weren't for a great goal over-the-head kick in the last minutes by Jiménez, the Mexican equivalent of Beckham's 92 minute at OT. Twitter is now full of hatred for Hernández, people have seemd to forget all he's done for us in such a short period of time. "Limited" falls short of how badly some people percieve him here, including "pundits", commentators, journos, the fans, etc. Ungrateful bastards, if you ask me.

Nothing personal mate, but Mexican football "supporters" are and always have been a bunch of delusional cnuts.
 
I'm with you on that. I'd like to see him brought on for the last 20 as a matter of course, rather than just an option for certain situations. That way we get the most out of him, and he is playing regularly enough to score goals and hopefully keep happy (throw in the odd start too, so he at least maintains full match fitness).

Tis the way! God its good in the mains!
 
Forlorn hope?

Javier Hernandez remains a popular figure at Old Trafford so there was some sympathy when he expressed frustration at his lack of first-team opportunities last week. But Adam Bate fears the striker is a victim of a changing game - with the goal poacher forced to live on the periphery...


"I am going on four years here at Manchester United and, like I have always said, I am happy to be able to play for one of the best clubs in the world. I am happy, doing my best every single day to earn more minutes on the pitch. All of us want to be able to contribute our part so this team can win championships. I strive for that, I am working towards that - earning a spot as a starter. I know my performance on the pitch will allow me to achieve that goal some day either here or elsewhere for any other club. I just need to be given more opportunities to showcase what I can do."

You can understand the frustration. Javier Hernandez was a surprise hit for Manchester United in his debut season after an £8million move from Guadalajara in the summer of 2010. The man from Mexico possessed an extraordinary turn of pace and that oft-written about, seldom explained quality of the poacher's instinct. It yielded him 20 goals in that first campaign, a Premier League winners' medal and a starting berth in the 2011 Champions League final. Big things were predicted.

Since then the goals have continued... When afforded minutes on the field. An important caveat that, given there were only 948 of them in the Premier League last season. In old money that equates to ten-and-a-half matches to those strikers who would regard the mere sight of their number on the substitute board as a personal affront to their manhood. Hernandez was still one of just 27 players to reach double figures last year with a significantly superior goals-per-minute record to any of them. He's entitled to wonder what more he could do to get those precious starts.

Former Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has been uncharacteristically apologetic throughout, frequently going on record to praise the efforts of such a reliable goalscorer and admitting he has to explain to the player the reasons for his continued omission. The Scot gave every indication that he wanted to play Hernandez but simply felt unable to do so. "If you look at the goals he has scored in terms of games he has played, he has a brilliant record," said Ferguson in March. "He will always have that because he is a fantastic penalty-box player."

When Hernandez has been paired with Van Persie in a 4-4-2 formation, both men have delivered. In their eight Premier League starts as a duo, the Little Pea netted five times. RVP bagged six. As a result, the 25-year-old could hardly be accused of holding back his more illustrious partner. Perhaps his pace even forced opponents to defend deeper, creating more space for Van Persie to utilise. Certainly, the team's results were not damaged by the presence of two strikers. Nineteen points from eight games is better than United's average return in a season in which they strolled to the title. Indeed, it would have been seven wins from their last seven starts together but for West Brom's extraordinary recovery to draw 5-5 in Ferguson's final game in charge.A fantastic penalty-box player. And herein lies the problem. In a modern game that demands more, the perception remains that Chicharito is no more than a poacher. The ubiquitous 4-2-3-1 formation brings a need for a target in the centre or at least someone capable of bringing others into play. At United, that creates an either/or situation for Hernandez with Robin van Persie. As Wayne Rooney has infamously discovered, it's a battle that few players can hope to win.
Of course, that exhibition game is indicative of the less pressurised environment in which Hernandez has been handed his opportunities in recent times. None of his nine league starts came against top-six opposition and the last time the player was on the field to hear the Champions League music blare out was alongside Scott Wootton and Nick Powell in a dead-rubber home defeat to CFR Cluj in December. When the big games come around, it has been the defensive qualities of Rooney or Danny Welbeck that the manager has preferred. They are the players able to perform a dual role for the team by closing down opponents and dropping into the midfield.

Welbeck was the man entrusted with a starting role home and away against Real Madrid last season, scoring in the Bernabeu then playing the support role to Van Persie at Old Trafford by occupying Xabi Alonso before bursting forwards to join in the counter-attacks. As Ferguson pointed out towards the end of last season: "His value to the club is there because I know he can do a job for me in any of those positions. It's a fantastic asset when you have a player who is as adaptable as that."

Hernandez is not that player. In fact, the scarcity of his involvement in build-up play is remarkable. Ruud Gullit once pointed out to Sky Sports viewers the curious way in which notorious poacher extraordinaire Pippo Inzaghi would invariably run away from the ball until it reached the 18-yard box. It is alien to advocates of the Dutch school - consider how players in the Johan Cruyff inspired Barcelona team often move towards the man in possession to receive a pass - but it is natural for Hernandez. He is at his best when looking to latch onto the final ball, a pass over the top or that low cross into the area. A finisher of the move in the literal sense.
HernandezTouches201213_3018798.jpg

Javier Hernandez has almost 25 per cent of his touches in central areas in the final third
That is reflected in Hernandez's touch map for last season. Almost 25 per cent of the striker's activity came in a central position in the attacking third, far more than any other United forward. And the trend continues. In his only Premier League start of the current campaign, the home defeat to West Brom, Hernandez touched the ball inside his own half just once. This lack of build-up work means that on average there are gaps of well over four minutes between his passes - finding a team-mate just 21 times per 90 minutes.

Perhaps it is not the most damning of statistics, but given that finding the right blend between players is vital for a football team, the reluctance to trust Hernandez alongside Van Persie when the big games come around is perfectly understandable. Despite being something of a No.10 in his younger days, the powerful Dutchman prefers to loiter around the box these days himself. And dominating the ball against the best opponents with two out-and-out strikers is impractical.
His attitude is not in question. Hernandez is working at his game and there is an argument that he is not quite as one-dimensional as his critics would suggest. "He reminds me of an old-fashioned type centre-forward," says United team-mate Jonny Evans. "People don't realise he is quite a strong lad with a great jump." Ferguson has also noted that Hernandez works hard on his strength conditioning in order to adapt to the physical demands of English football.

But with Wayne Rooney's renewed desire to play as a centre forward, it seems Hernandez must content himself with a bit-part role at Manchester United or seek a move elsewhere. The problem for the man with the best strike rate in the Premier League last year is that leaving behind Old Trafford doesn't necessarily mean leaving behind his problems. The goal poacher is hoping for his big chance. But the game has changed. And for that reason, his hope could prove a forlorn one. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8971911/forlorn-hope
What do people think of this piece?
I love Hernandez but it makes some valid points.
 
In a nutshell, it is all based on the assumption that a striker running away from the ball is bad because Cruyff and Barca players swarm towards the ball. If they do it, all 11 players in any side playing any style of football should do it as well :wenger:
 
Mexico scrape through to a playoff. It probably still won't be pretty but he would have been completely savaged for that miss had they gone out.
 
The amount of people hating on him now on twitter is ridiculous. Top trend world wide, it's like they're forgetting how good he's been for them in the past 4 years. In only 53 games, he's scored 35 goals yet they're saying he's useless. cnuts.
 
You wouldn't believe how much people are hating him right now.

feck them. I love you Chich, pick yourself up and trash the fecking league again.
 
I really really hope Moyes is monitoring this and gives him confidence. I hope he scores against Southampton.
 
RvP was apparently struggling after the Turkey game today. If he isn't ready, i really Moyes starts Hernandez on Saturday even if he only returns to Manchester late tonight. He hasn't been playing much anyway and needs games. Did he play the full 90 today?
 
RvP was apparently struggling after the Turkey game today. If he isn't ready, i really Moyes starts Hernandez on Saturday even if he only returns to Manchester late tonight. He hasn't been playing much anyway and needs games. Did he play the full 90 today?


He was subbed off after 60 mins.
 
RvP was apparently struggling after the Turkey game today. If he isn't ready, i really Moyes starts Hernandez on Saturday even if he only returns to Manchester late tonight. He hasn't been playing much anyway and needs games. Did he play the full 90 today?

I find this baffling. He knew he had a toe injury. They were already qualified and he was no longer chasing the record. Why did he even play? :confused:
 
Seems like there's some kind of agenda against him right now, missing that penalty and now yesterday's match, God, those people are retarded. I wish we've had a striker here who could score so many goals for our NT. Instead, we've got Robert who fails to deliver in the NT and I don't that he's getting that much shit ( although he is ).

I hope that he'll get a game or two soon enough to boost up his confidence, guy must be feeling pretty bad and he's such a top lad. Especially if we're playing against SOTON, they won't allow us to do much, they hardly leak any goals so we'll need to be as clinical as you can be.
 
Rhythm.

Oh feck, above thats a bad miss.

Understandable if there wasn't an underlying injury he was risking aggravating, which from what people have said sounds like it happened! :mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.