Javier Hernandez | 2013/14 Performances

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Steven Seagull said:
I didn't know he'd said that but I wouldn't read too much into it. Sounds more like Moyes letting everyone know that he's new to the club, just in case anybody thought we might have a good start to the season or something.
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Whatever the intentions, after several games where he should have come on but didn't he would have been wondering whether the manager rated him. Reading that would be some sort of revelation, like everything he has done in the past was pointless and he was starting from ground zero against the mighty RvP, Rooney and the hardworking and local Welbeck.

I'd be pissed.
 
Shark22 said:
If he ends up leaving, we'll inevitably get people blaming Moyes for underrating him and letting him go.

In reality, there's not an awful lot Moyes can do though, as all he can do is promise Hernandez games when Rooney or RVP are injured, or aren't vitally needed for a particular game. When you think about it, Hernandez did displace Berbatov in his first season here, can he do the same to RVP when he starts declining?
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Moyes can grow a pair. RVP is obviously playing poorly, so why not give Hernandez a chance? See how RVP reacts to being dropped and see how Hernandez reacts to being first choice. I don't think any player should warrant a starting position on merit alone, or get captaincy for just being a dick for that matter.

Overall, United may face losing Kagawa, Hernandez and Fabio due to poor management. We will lose squad depth, but more than that, we lose young players who should be our future.
 
acnumber9 said:
Of all the players at Old Trafford he has more reason to complain about lack of playing. Time than anyone. Works his balls off when he gets his chances and rarely fails to deliver.
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Maybe, but he's still not as good as the others so limited playing time is to be expected. He will get more chances though.

Unless you're a nob like Mourinho you don't just walk in and plonk your 2 best players on the bench.
 
antohan said:
I don't think it's about 7, or 10, or 20 games. He finally got a start against Liverpool, played really well (inc. buildup play), scored a goal none of our other strikers would have, and the manager just came out blabbing about how people tell him he has great movement. feck me, hasn't Moyes been managing in the PL? Hasn't he looked at him before? Maybe that's why he TWICE scored the winner against Everton in 1-0 wins. :smirk:

Disbelief and being disheartened is the only likely reaction to that.
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That's just DM's self-protective patter. He's presenting himself as a newbie who needs TIME.
 
antohan said:
Whatever the intentions, after several games where he should have come on but didn't he would have been wondering whether the manager rated him. Reading that would be some sort of revelation, like everything he has done in the past was pointless and he was starting from ground zero against the mighty RvP, Rooney and the hardworking and local Welbeck.

I'd be pissed.
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I'm the first one to point out some of Moyes' decisions in the tough opening weeks were baffling. I'd just wait a little bit longer if I were him. Or he could just ask Moyes himself like normal adults would.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Maybe, but he's still not as good as the others so limited playing time is to be expected. He will get more chances though.

Unless you're a nob like Mourinho you don't just walk in and plonk your 2 best players on the bench.
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You pick the team that gets you results. Football isn't always about just sticking the 'best' players in.
 
Definitely deserves more game time than he gets here. But it's tough for any manager to leave out players like Rooney or RVP who can do extraordinary things when it really matters. I've always rated Hernandez for his impact off the bench, but no professional wants to be that guy.

Tough call for his own career, because he's approaching that stage where he needs to play every week. At the same time I'd be gutted if he left because he's as reliable as anyone when we really need a goal.

He's the type of player who could genuinely play for anyone because you want him on the end of things. A Juve, Atletico Madrid, Napoli or someone in that mould would be perfect although they've all bought strikers or had strikers come into form this summer gone.
 
Hernandez movement off the ball is ridiculous. He ties defenders in knots without the ball and scores loads.

He's a top striker and would start at almost any club, bar maybe the top 4.
 
Rossa said:
Has RVP been playing well lately or is he playing on merit?
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I don't think he's been great at all, but its 7 games into the season and he hasn't been terrible. A couple of cracking goals at Swansea but he's not been as good as last season yet. You're not going to drop him after a few sub-par performances though. Ferguson wouldn't do that, let alone Moyes.

If we were playing a good side this weekend, would you put RVP on the bench?
 
Steven Seagull said:
I don't think he's been great at all, but its 7 games into the season and he hasn't been terrible. A couple of cracking goals at Swansea but he's not been as good as last season yet. You're not going to drop him after a few sub-par performances though. Ferguson wouldn't do that, let alone Moyes.
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He's scored 6 goals in 8 games overall, which is more than last season. I'd say he's doing more than ok.
 
adexkola said:
Who are these top teams in Europe that would reject Hernandez? I can only think of Barcelona, Dortmund and Bayern. He'd walk into any other squad's first team.
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He's really good but he still doesn't have the overall game to be the main man at a huge club. You think he's actually be first choice at real ahead of benzema? Or aguero at city? Even Chelsea will be looking at someone more complete than Hernandez as they were earlier with Rooney. He's a quality player no doubt, better than someone like welbeck for me, but still needs to improve to be that level of striker who can play as the main man for any of the big teams. Right now, I'd say he's the perfect second choice striker, and I'd have him playing that role in our squad as well behind rvp.

As for his future, I think he needs to be playing week in week out. First choice for a team like spurs would have been great for him. Let's see who comes in for him. You can't hold it against him for wanting out. He's been fantastic for us and doesn't get all that many starts.
 
Rossa said:
Has RVP been playing well lately or is he playing on merit?
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He's perhaps not been in the best run of form but you're making it look as if he's in some awful rout. You only drop your top striker in league games after a terrible run: he's not been brilliant but all players have slight dips, and unless he has another 3 or 4 really poor games without goals then Hernandez won't get a look-in for starting in the league at all.
 
They just don't link that up all that well well. They have nice "moments" like Rooney finding rvp last season a few times with the latter finishing brilliantly, but you don't see it as a fantastic "partnership" where both players just okay brilliantly off each other like cole and York did or Torres and Gerard too in recent times. They seem to play very far apart and that seems to me to be one reason.
 
Cheesy said:
He's perhaps not been in the best run of form but you're making it look as if he's in some awful rout. You only drop your top striker in league games after a terrible run: he's not been brilliant but all players have slight dips, and unless he has another 3 or 4 really poor games without goals then Hernandez won't get a look-in for starting in the league at all.
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That wasn't my intention - he's been OK, but not more than that, and you'd expect the best from RVP. When we have a hungry and efficient player like Hernandez, I'm not sure I'd give him another 3-4 really poor games - maybe starting Hernandez would give RVP a kick up the arse (not that he needs it - seems extremely professional) - but I'm sure you catch my drift.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
They just don't link that up all that well well. They have nice "moments" like Rooney finding rvp last season a few times with the latter finishing brilliantly, but you don't see it as a fantastic "partnership" where both players just okay brilliantly off each other like cole and York did or Torres and Gerard too in recent times. They seem to play very far apart and that seems to me to be one reason.
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I couldn't agree with you more. To me, the problem seems to be Rooney as he looks to be of less technical quality and doesn't see RVP's runs or hesitates to play him when he's in a decent position himself. I've seen that happen too often. Therefore, I would welcome Kagawa behind RVP, or having RVP and Hernandez play together where RVP plays slightly deeper.
 
Rossa said:
That wasn't my intention - he's been OK, but not more than that, and you'd expect the best from RVP. When we have a hungry and efficient player like Hernandez, I'm not sure I'd give him another 3-4 really poor games - maybe starting Hernandez would give RVP a kick up the arse (not that he needs it - seems extremely professional) - but I'm sure you catch my drift.
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Possibly, but it's not as if he really needs a kick up the arse yet. In a few games perhaps, but at the moment he's just not perhaps at the very top of his game, which hasn't been helped by a midfield which often creates little for him up front. You only drop your best striker after a very poor spell, not one or two fairly poor games.
 
Cheesy said:
Possibly, but it's not as if he really needs a kick up the arse yet. In a few games perhaps, but at the moment he's just not perhaps at the very top of his game, which hasn't been helped by a midfield which often creates little for him up front. You only drop your best striker after a very poor spell, not one or two fairly poor games.
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I agree wholeheartedly. My point was just that one shouldn't play on merits (like Rooney has for a long time as an automatic starter, imo). Our attacking play has been lethargic and stationary to say the least. Our midfield has certainly been part of that, including the wingers, but also RVP and Rooney seems a bit one-dimensional so far.
 
Rossa said:
I agree wholeheartedly. My point was just that one shouldn't play on merits (like Rooney has for a long time as an automatic starter, imo). Our attacking play has been lethargic and stationary to say the least. Our midfield has certainly been part of that, including the wingers, but also RVP and Rooney seems a bit one-dimensional so far.
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I'd agree with all of that. Just not sure that adding Hernandez into that at the moment would really help too much.
 
acnumber9 said:
Van Persie and Rooney together this season haven't racked up the results. Van Persie in particular seems to suffer when paired with Rooney.
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Exactly my concern. They are among the first names on the teamsheet but I'm not convinced they work that well together.
 
Cheesy said:
I'd agree with all of that. Just not sure that adding Hernandez into that at the moment would really help too much.
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He makes brilliant runs and our finishing really has been sub-standard as of late. He brings energy and pace to the game. With Carrick, Fellaini, Rooney and RVP there isn't a whole lot of pace in our central players. Kagawa would be my easy solution. I'm very optimistic, so I would try this:

RVP
Januzaj Kagawa Nani
Anderson Carrick

Still leaves out Hernandez, but he can either come on as a sub or start if and when RVP hits a dry spell.
 
Rossa said:
He makes brilliant runs and our finishing really has been sub-standard as of late. He brings energy and pace to the game. With Carrick, Fellaini, Rooney and RVP there isn't a whole lot of pace in our central players. Kagawa would be my easy solution. I'm very optimistic, so I would try this:

RVP
Januzaj Kagawa Nani
Anderson Carrick

Still leaves out Hernandez, but he can either come on as a sub or start if and when RVP hits a dry spell.
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:lol:
 
One thing I'd say for Hernandez is if the form of the wingers doesn't pick up, if there's a way to integrate him from a wider role. He pulls out some nice crosses, and I really can't see how he'd be worse than Young/Valencia there, though it might be taking the Solskjaer comparisons too far. Could either be in our standard formation or in the diamond or another adaption that fits. I mean Welbeck plays there without really being a creator, he's better on the ball than Hernandez sure, but Hernandez isn't so bad it's not worth a go. Plus you know he wouldn't hesitate to make a run in the box, and with his ability, coming in at the back post, he could do some damage, probably a lot more than Welbeck.

Not ideal but worth considering before letting him go, might be a way to include him more often which is maybe all he needs. Probably a short term solution though. Still if Henriquez develops well on his loan spell and with Keane in the reserves we might have players in place to take that spot if he did leave.
 
Ash_G said:
One thing I'd say for Hernandez is if the form of the wingers doesn't pick up, if there's a way to integrate him from a wider role. He pulls out some nice crosses, and I really can't see how he'd be worse than Young/Valencia there, though it might be taking the Solskjaer comparisons too far. Could either be in our standard formation or in the diamond or another adaption that fits. I mean Welbeck plays there without really being a creator, he's better on the ball than Hernandez sure, but Hernandez isn't so bad it's not worth a go. Plus you know he wouldn't hesitate to make a run in the box, and with his ability, coming in at the back post, he could do some damage, probably a lot more than Welbeck.

Not ideal but worth considering before letting him go, might be a way to include him more often which is maybe all he needs. Probably a short term solution though. Still if Henriquez develops well on his loan spell and with Keane in the reserves we might have players in place to take that spot if he did leave.
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That's my thinking. I like Hernandez but he should probably get more playing time and he would somewhere else but also that we have a few young talented strikers in the ranks and for them to get game time our 4th striker will have to go and unfortunately that's Hernandez.
 
Hernandez is arguably the most dangerous penalty box player in the Premier League. To lose him would be a huge blow. If you think of his chance conversion rate, the big goals he's scored for United, and the relatively restrained way he's approached being 3rd choice and still think we should sell I don't understand you. Chico's younger than both Van Persie and Rooney and if we play this right we'll have Hernandez for his peak years, why sell him? Goals win games and Hernandez scores goals. Juve are already having second thoughts about Llorente I can see Chicharito going to Serie A and lighting that league up. Nonsensical to even think of selling the guy.
 
It would suck to lose him but I didn't think he'd want to remain a bench player, especially after he started out here as a starter, albeit unexpectedly.
 
#07 said:
Hernandez is arguably the most dangerous penalty box player in the Premier League. To lose him would be a huge blow. If you think of his chance conversion rate, the big goals he's scored for United, and the relatively restrained way he's approached being 3rd choice and still think we should sell I don't understand you. Chico's younger than both Van Persie and Rooney and if we play this right we'll have Hernandez for his peak years, why sell him? Goals win games and Hernandez scores goals. Juve are already having second thoughts about Llorente I can see Chicharito going to Serie A and lighting that league up. Nonsensical to even think of selling the guy.
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Bang on, can't believe some say he should go to make room for untested youngsters. He simply scores goals, but apparently that's not good enough :wenger:
 
Rossa said:
That is, and will always be the best of the best of arguments. A true classic that is!
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I wasn't taking the piss, I found it funny how after making the case for Hernandez you arrived at a starting lineup where he would still only play when RvP is injured/rested. Unexpected and it made me laugh, thus the greenie.
 
Hernández will only leave if he wants to, nobody is asking to get rid of him. And if he wants to leave there's nothing we can do because he's not good enough to be a starter. Have people forgotten already that he was completely ineffective against West Brom in his last start in one of our worst defeats in years?
 
Brwned said:
Hernández will only leave if he wants to, nobody is asking to get rid of him. And if he wants to leave there's nothing we can do because he's not good enough to be a starter. Have people forgotten already that he was completely ineffective against West Brom in his last start in one of our worst defeats in years?
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I dont know. Persie is struggling himself atm and Danny does always. He may not be a certain starter but atm he has as much chance.as the rest of our attackers
 
antohan said:
I wasn't taking the piss, I found it funny how after making the case for Hernandez you arrived at a starting lineup where he would still only play when RvP is injured/rested. Unexpected and it made me laugh, thus the greenie.
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:lol: That made it more understandable. No matter how you make the case for Hernandez, and I really would like to, RVP is the better player. So in my starting XI I would have RVP. However, when RVP needs rest or isn't playing well, I would play Hernandez. Also, I don't think anyone should be an automatic starter.
 
Brwned said:
Hernández will only leave if he wants to, nobody is asking to get rid of him. And if he wants to leave there's nothing we can do because he's not good enough to be a starter. Have people forgotten already that he was completely ineffective against West Brom in his last start in one of our worst defeats in years?
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:confused: A bit less rusty and he would have scored a couple in the first half. I'd say the goal is 80% the keeper being paranoid about him and literally taking the eye off the ball. We looked far worse when RvP came on.
 
Hernandez is good enough to start for us. Complete nonsense to think otherwise.

Rooney and RVP are better players, but only in top form. Its natural for the better players to be given a run of games to try and play them into form, but after a while its time to give someone else a chance. And he'll need a run too.
 
He probably doesn't want to leave, but if his situation doesn't improve he probably will. I think he is okay with not being a regular starter here, but he does expect to play quite often and so far that hasn't happened yet. Even with Van Persie here last season, he still managed to make 36 appearances for us in all competitions and was happy with that as his comments in the summer would verify.
 
It's also worth noting that Rooney and/or RVP will get injured at some point. And at that stage he is more or less guaranteed starts.
 
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