That's one of the key factors. By the time RVP does decline, will Herandez be capable of making a big enough case for himself for us not to instantly go out and buy another world class striker? it's another thing he has to consider.
Javier Hernandez | 2013/14 Performances
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That's one of the key factors. By the time RVP does decline, will Herandez be capable of making a big enough case for himself for us not to instantly go out and buy another world class striker? it's another thing he has to consider.
I don't see a scenario where he will stay and be in the first XI most weeks, barring some of our attacking players leaving. I'm assuming that medium term the plan will be that Rooney will move forward as RVP declines and Kagawa will fill in behind Rooney. As people have postulated before I think that was Fergie's plan for last season, but the RVP transfer became possible and Fergie knew we couldn't pass up a player of that quality (especially when the alternative was him going to City and helping them win the league twice on the trot). In the medium- long run I see the competition for the lead striker role to be between Rooney and Welbeck with the likes of Keane and Henriquez filling in when necessary and the second striker/number 10/whatever people want to call it being between Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj (who I think by the time he's 20 will be a nailed on starter in any of those 3 positions behind the striker).
We rarely play two out-and-out strikers even domestically anymore and whilst maintaining 4 top strikers on the books was definitely necessary in the late 90s when we played two at almost all levels, having 4 players or the calibre of RVP, Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez jostling for one position seems unsustainable. Hernandez' problem is that unlike Welbeck, Rooney and RVP he can't fill any of the other forward positions, and as much as I'd like to see it, I don't see him ever having the necessary skillset to do what Ole did and convert, for example, to playing as a right-winger. Ultimately he'd do a great job and have a great career as a first choice striker for a lot of clubs and I wouldn't hold it against him if he decided to leave (although obviously I'd love him to stay)
We rarely play two out-and-out strikers even domestically anymore and whilst maintaining 4 top strikers on the books was definitely necessary in the late 90s when we played two at almost all levels, having 4 players or the calibre of RVP, Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez jostling for one position seems unsustainable. Hernandez' problem is that unlike Welbeck, Rooney and RVP he can't fill any of the other forward positions, and as much as I'd like to see it, I don't see him ever having the necessary skillset to do what Ole did and convert, for example, to playing as a right-winger. Ultimately he'd do a great job and have a great career as a first choice striker for a lot of clubs and I wouldn't hold it against him if he decided to leave (although obviously I'd love him to stay)
Bayern's 4141 is now the holy grail then. Wonderful.
Where did anyone say that? It was just suggested as a system that Hernandez might do well in.
Not too dissimilar to suggestions that Cleverley/Kagawa would probably do well in a 4-3-3.
Would be very sad to see him go but would definitely be understandable.
He'd score shitloads for anyone if he started every game. I include the top clubs in that. He could easily play for a big club in Europe.
He'd score shitloads for anyone if he started every game. I include the top clubs in that. He could easily play for a big club in Europe.
Dortmund. He needs to go to Dortmund if he leaves. Him and Kagawa should go there after season.
I reckon they should stick it out and show their quality here. They should stay at United, not go to Dortmund.
Nah, I think penny has dropped with Kagawa. He can't go another season here without playing much football and it seems that we have no idea how to utilise him. As for Hernandez, well he's going to be 26 next year and I guess he'd like to eventually make himself count as a first team player - be it here or somewhere else. You can accept playing second fiddle only for so long.
I think most of us on here love Chicharito, but as Brwned says, the big clubs do want more rounded strikers. Of the top teams in Europe, would he get in many teams every week? Very few of them rely on strikers like Hernandez, plus he's not really as suited to playing up front on his own.
I'm starting to wonder if a selection of our fans are Dortmund supporters rather than United supporters.
What happened to strength and depth in a squad?
Who are these top teams in Europe that would reject Hernandez? I can only think of Barcelona, Dortmund and Bayern. He'd walk into any other squad's first team.
Looks to me that Moyes will eventually get rid of some of our squad players. As much as I love him, I expect Chicharito to leave. Moyes seems to value a thinner squad with more quality.
Will be sad if he leaves, seems a great character and more importantly he's a very useful player to have. But it's understandable that he wants to play regularly and tbh I prefer seeing that than players who are happy with a bit part role. I think the only thing that might convince him to stay is where he can go. I can't see him going to an elite side if he wants regular playing time, there just isn't enough to his game even if it has improved over his time here. I think he'd have to go for a bit of a step down, but then there's no shame in that.
I'm not a Dortmund fan but I like Hernandez and would love to see him succeed and I think Dortmund would be a perfect fit for him.
What's the point of strength in depth when those players will likely never play anyway?
I don't think that Hernandez fits into that category though. Every big club like us have squad players, but we have a few squad players that are below the required level to play for this club, even as squad players. Bayern for example can rotate without having to worry about a massive dip in quality.
Hernandez is the level of squad player we should be aiming for, not getting rid of IMO. He might never be a starter, but he's still more than good enough to play for the club, unlike Anderson or Young.
You're making knee jerk reactions from the opening 7 games, most of which were difficult games and the team was never going to be heavily rotated during them.
It seems nowadays unless a player is involved every game our supporters think we should get rid. Hernandez as well other currrent fringe players will get ample opportunities all season. If he's not played much by new year maybe there's a discussion to be had, not 2 months into the season.
It's also worth noting that both Hernandez and Kagawa, the two players everyone wants to hand games to both played in the Confederations Cup and had no preseason.
Madrid, PSG, City, Juve he wouldn't have a hope. Probably Athletico Madrid too. They all have much better strikers. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs he might, but they play one up and he's not as suited to that. Milan and Napoli again probably not, due to system, but I'm not as familiar with them.
Dunno, we've been playing with two strikers all season. Or nearly one striker, with Rooney behind. We've Rooney, van Persie, Welbeck and Chicharito who can play up top. We've Rooney and Kagawa who can play behind the striker. Letting Chicharito leave for first team football wouldn't lower the standard of a rotated team all that much for us.
He'd score bucket loads at Arsenal
I'd be happier with a thinner squad with more quality, but surely Hernandez falls into the quality bracket rather than the depth one. He's a super player and I'd be more worried about him staying and getting game time than someone like Kagawa.
Point is, how long do you expect Hernandez to be a fringe player? It's such an arrogant stance taken by so many United fans that as long as a player is here they should be happy regardless of whether they actually play etc. He's been a fringe player for 3 years and this season it seems his position is even weaker than before, he's a quality player and should play somewhere. Same goes for Kagawa really.
He would get into Madrid ahead of Benzema (who I don't rate nowadays). He could duke it out with Dzeko and Negredo for a spot next to Aguero. Juventus have had the shittiest collection of strikers for a while now. Milan are plain shit. He's done more for us than Higuain did at Real Madrid, given a similar role in Napoli he would flourish.
He's no Van Persie in the buildup, but neither is he Inzaghi (who by the way was a fecking great striker)
He doesn't create enough chances for himself (out of very little) or for others to be considered one of the best. Van Persie, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Aguero, Lewandowski etc. Higuain still got 107 in 190 according to wiki and he didn't really attract the best clubs around.
The hope with Welbeck is that he can develop that side of his game as he has a good eye for a pass and more physical presence
The hope with Welbeck is that he can develop that side of his game as he has a good eye for a pass and more physical presence
Neither of them warrant starting. If they want to be guaranteed games they need to step down to join a club that can offer that. It isn't arrogance, it's the way all top clubs operate. Quality backup is required and currently the two aforementioned players fall into that category.
People saying he would walk into other top teams are partly correct, he could walk into most squads, but is unlikely to break into the first team consistently for the elite clubs. Leaving for starts will undoubtedly mean a step down in quality; squad and competition wise.
Kagawa has yet to justify any more than the odd run out based on his performances for us. Hernandez on the other hand has impressed almost every time he's been on the pitch.
Yeah. You might be slightly overstating it, but he is underrated by some on here just because he has the misfortune to be behind arguably the best centre-forward in the world. He remains the fastest scoring (goals/minute) striker in Premier League history. If he was our first choice, it's not unreasonable to expect that he'd be comfortably hitting 30 a season in the PL. So I do think he'd win himself the starting spot in plenty of the top European teams, even if they wouldn't necessarily expect that to happen.
In terms of the PL, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal would all be improved by starting him. Giroud is looking really good now, but he still fecks up chances again and again that Hernandez would bury in his sleep. City are the only other top English team who probably wouldn't be starting him, since their striking department is nearly as strong as ours.
Keep.
Quality player, good age.
Several absolutely pointless players in our squad that need to go and be replaced by quality. Definitely not him.
Quality player, good age.
Several absolutely pointless players in our squad that need to go and be replaced by quality. Definitely not him.
If I was the boss I'd rotate him occasionally in for Rooney and RvP. It'd keep the two of them on their toes too. Also, he should be way ahead of Welbeck on the pecking order up front given he actually scores goals.
He shouldn't really be in competition with Welbeck at all at the moment. Welbeck is playing very well from a wide position, which lets him use his various strengths, and Hernandez is playing very well, when given the chance, up front.
Aye, that's why I said up-front when speaking about Welbeck.
He's easily good enough to start 20 games and play in 40 this season.
Given RVP has looked a bit out of sorts, can't see why we can't rotate the strikers enough to keep him happy. Lots of matches coming up, should easily get 20 starts this season, even if things have been slow to date.
I think we will rotate, but Moyes wants RVP and Rooney firing first and foremost so he knows he can fall back on it.
Hernandez should be the first option when we need a goal and should start most cup games, and also fill in for an injured Rooney or RVP.
That should be more than enough playing time. The question is - does Moyes rate him enough?
I feckin hope so. Hernandez is a ridiculously good scorer with a much improved all around game. Tired defenders just can't handle his speed and movement.
He could go down as a similar legend to Ole if he accepts his role. He surely has the finishing skills to be legendary.
That should be more than enough playing time. The question is - does Moyes rate him enough?
I feckin hope so. Hernandez is a ridiculously good scorer with a much improved all around game. Tired defenders just can't handle his speed and movement.
He could go down as a similar legend to Ole if he accepts his role. He surely has the finishing skills to be legendary.
If we lose Chicharito, Kagawa and particularly Evans due to no playing time I'll personally walk to Old Trafford and give Moyes such a kicking up the arse he will have to open a shoe store to flog his faeces for the next decade.
And I'm no Moyes hater but that would be fecking criminal.
You could be right. It's just my preference for us to groom Welbeck as our main striker than Hernandez. Seems like Welbeck has higher ceiling in terms of future level. And with RvP and Rooney will be around for some years as our main strikers, and the ability of Welbeck to play in other position to afford him more playing time, we can afford the time to be more patient with Welbeck. I think this point has been discussed to death, though.
I think Hernandez will easily find many top suitors, though. He can easily be, at least, the 2nd choice in Arsenal or Madrid, for instance.
You underrate Hernandez so much it's not even funny. 2nd choice at Arsenal? He would score for fun there.
Welbeck will stay, he's leaving the dream. I too would like him to become some supernatural force but, frankly, I don't think he is or will be anywhere near as good as a goal-getter.
The million dollar question really is what tactics Moyes plans to deploy. There's a case for Chicharito starting ahead of RvP in some scenarios. Even if considered a sub, he should be drawn upon a lot more when we are needing a goal and that would give him enough gametime. Problem is I can't see Moyes throwing the kitchen sink at anyone any time soon: if drawing preserve the draw, if losing by one don't risk widening the gap, if losing by two or more avoid embarrassment...
He's played ~120 games in his first three seasons, whether that's starting or sub it's far from being a bit part player, particularly when he has been trusted and scored in big games. Him not being a guaranteed starter doesn't mean he doesn't have a big and fulfilling role to play. If he doesn't, the bucket for that decision-making stops with the manager, clearly.
You're kind of missing the point here though. It's not about whether we want to keep him or not. I don't think many United fans would actually want us to sell him because he's clearly an excellent striker, but if he doesn't get enough time then he's going to want to leave and if we get a good offer then we won't turn it down.
As for other comments, I'd like to see him get more time and sometimes be rotated in but it feels a little bit like some are overrating him with comments that he should regularly be rotated with RVP and Rooney. He's a very good striker but it's no secret that his all-round game is limited and the other two are far, far better footballers overall than him.
I'd let him go abroad for £20m if he really wants to leave after 7 league games.
If we got to January and he's played a significantly lower number of games than previous seasons then I could understand.
If we got to January and he's played a significantly lower number of games than previous seasons then I could understand.
RvP and Rooney certainly are better all round players, issue is we often seem to just faff around with the ball around the box through these better all round players and no one seems ready to put the fecker inside the goal. Chicha does that, consistently, there are plenty of games where that's all we need and not the fancy "all-round footballing".
I don't think it's about 7, or 10, or 20 games. He finally got a start against Liverpool, played really well (inc. buildup play), scored a goal none of our other strikers would have, and the manager just came out blabbing about how people tell him he has great movement. feck me, hasn't Moyes been managing in the PL? Hasn't he looked at him before? Maybe that's why he TWICE scored the winner against Everton in 1-0 wins.
Disbelief and being disheartened is the only likely reaction to that.
Of all the players at Old Trafford he has more reason to complain about lack of playing. Time than anyone. Works his balls off when he gets his chances and rarely fails to deliver.
I didn't know he'd said that but I wouldn't read too much into it. Sounds more like Moyes letting everyone know that he's new to the club, just in case anybody thought we might have a good start to the season or something.
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