Javier Hernandez | 2012/13 Performances

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#Carl said:
Does he play in midfield?

He's not there to link up play like Teddy Sheringham. He's there to score goals and he's pretty fecking good at it.

He's not the sort of player that needs to be excellent outside the box. That's not his game.
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Doesn't need to be excellent but I think he does need to improve.

I certainly think MrMojo is going way overboard with his criticism, especially given Javiers season, but almost trying to suggest that Javiers lack of all round game isn't even an issue is wrong too.
 
MrMojo said:
Yeah that's all just rubbish.
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No it's not. He's beat his man several times in one on ones this season. Not usually in scenarios in or just out of the box but when he's picked it up deep or in a wing position.
 
Fergus' son said:
Doesn't need to be excellent but I think he does need to improve.

I certainly think MrMojo is going way overboard with his criticism, especially given Javiers season, but almost trying to suggest that Javiers lack of all round game isn't even an issue is wrong too.
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Improvement in every area can only be a good thing so I'm not gunna sit here and say I wouldn't want him to improve his general play. But to suggest it's Championship level is plain daft and he's already improved in such an extent that it's at a perfectly acceptable level for what he needs to do.
 
I'm not sure it's 'perfectly acceptable' but it's getting there, and I'm very confident it will reach a perfectly acceptable level soon.
 
#Carl said:
Does he play in midfield?

He's not there to link up play like Teddy Sheringham. He's there to score goals and he's pretty fecking good at it.

He's not the sort of player that needs to be excellent outside the box. That's not his game.
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Why do you keep referencing other positions.

He's a centre forward or Man United, since when has being just a goalscorer ever been enough?

His role with us now, sub or occasional starter is fine. All I'm doing is offering a critique of his game.
 
MrMojo said:
Why do you keep referencing other positions.

He's a centre forward or Man United, since when has being just a goalscorer ever been enough?His role with us now, sub or occasional starter is fine. All I'm doing is offering a critique of his game.
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What a curious statement. Good you're opening up the debate.

Where shall we start?
 
Fergus' son said:
Doesn't need to be excellent but I think he does need to improve.

I certainly think MrMojo is going way overboard with his criticism, especially given Javiers season, but almost trying to suggest that Javiers lack of all round game isn't even an issue is wrong too.
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I think it's being taken too harshly by some. If there was a guy in the Championship now with Hernandez's goal scoring ability a top Premiership club would buy him and use him just as we do Hernandez. Nothing wrong with that.

If he was starting games on a more regular basis his shortcomings would be increasingly evident. As it is he's coming on as sub and saving the day.

It's not a massive criticism to say his overall game is a level down from Premiership, especially when I've practically raved about his box work.
 
But let's face it, his overall play isn't Championship level, it's better.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
What a curious statement. Good you're opening up the debate.

Where shall we start?
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I'd say it's a very fair statement. Just scoring goals isn't enough at this club. Andy Cole will tell you that.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
What a curious statement. Good you're opening up the debate.

Where shall we start?
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Is it curious, after 25 years of Ferguson management how many strikers have we had who've just been goalscorers.

Cole is the closest I can think of and he was much better than Hernandez in the area we're debating.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
What a curious statement. Good you're opening up the debate.

Where shall we start?
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Every single great goalscorer the club has as far as my memory goes has had a better overall game than what Hernandez has now, I think it was a fair statement.
 
MrMojo said:
Is it curious, after 25 years of Ferguson management how many strikers have we had who've just been goalscorers.

Cole is the closest I can think of and he was much better than Hernandez in the area we're debating.
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You're moving away from you're original point mate. Do you believe that his over-all game is championship level?

There is no point in going on and on, when the majority of people here will rightly disagree with you. On the back of his previous two seasons, last season(particularly) you might have had a point. Not now.
 
MrMojo said:
Is it curious, after 25 years of Ferguson management how many strikers have we had who've just been goalscorers. Cole is the closest I can think of and he was much better than Hernandez in the area we're debating.
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Well we have one now and if he does the job, I'd say it will suffice.

What's gone before is irrelevant
 
Fergus' son said:
Every single great goalscorer the club has as far as my memory goes has had a better overall game than what Hernandez has now, I think it was a fair statement.
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That's a fair statement, but the problem lies with his 'championship level' statement. Nobody would have pounced on him, if it wasn't for that.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Well we have one now and if he does the job, I'd say it will suffice.

What's gone before is irrelevant
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Total cop out.

Shark22 said:
You're moving away from you're original point mate. Do you believe that his over-all game is championship level?

There is no point in going on and on, when the majority of people here will rightly disagree with you. On the back of his previous two seasons, last season(particularly) you might have had a point.
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Wait, so you might agree with me based on the previous two season but his four Premiership starts this season have completely convinced you otherwise? Bearing in mind at least one of them(Newcastle) he was poor.
 
MrMojo said:
Total cop out.



Wait, so you might agree with me based on the previous two season but his four Premiership starts this season have completely convinced you otherwise? Bearing in mind at least one of them(Newcastle) he was poor.
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His over-all play was awful last season, that's not even up for debate. What difference does it make, how many games he's played this season? it's as clear as day to see that he's improved a huge amount outside the box. How you could arrive to the conclusion that his over-all play has been championship level, is insane.
 
Shark22 said:
His over-all play was awful last season, that's not even up for debate. What difference does it make, how many games he's played this season? it's as clear as day to see that he's improved a huge amount outside the box.
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Because to make a judgement on a player, particularly on improvement, it's wise to base it on a fair amount evidence. You've completely changed an opinion you've buit of him over the last 2 seasons on the evidence of four starts.Personally I need more than that to form any kind of conclusive judgement.
 
Shark22 said:
That's a fair statement, but the problem lies with his 'championship level' statement. Nobody would have pounced on him, if it wasn't for that.
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Indeed. This was where the ridiculousness began and he can only expect ridiculous posts in equal measure back as a result.
 
MrMojo said:
Because to make a judgement on a player, particularly on improvement, it's wise to base it on a fair amount evidence. You've completely changed an opinion you've buit of him over the last 2 seasons on the evidence of four starts.Personally I need more than that to form any kind of conclusive judgement.
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4 starts? We're in December. The evidence has been there for everyone to see that he's improved for the last 5 months.
 
MrMojo said:
Because to make a judgement on a player, particularly on improvement, it's wise to base it on a fair amount evidence. You've completely changed an opinion you've buit of him over the last 2 seasons on the evidence of four starts.Personally I need more than that to form any kind of conclusive judgement.
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What other criteria do you suggest?

General knowledge?

This is sport ffs not the Krypton Factor. He's improved his game no doubt but you're clearly not impressed and you're determined to prove otherwise through flawed logic.....good luck
 
Shark22 said:
That's a fair statement, but the problem lies with his 'championship level' statement. Nobody would have pounced on him, if it wasn't for that.
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Of course, completely agree. It was a stupid statement.
 
#Carl said:
4 starts? We're in December. The evidence has been there for everyone to see that he's improved for the last 5 months.
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Yeah four starts, that's what he has and in at least one of them he was poor. This is what I don't get about claiming he's improved so much. Three decent Premiership starts has suddenly eradicated the previous two seasons. Sure take into account sub appearances but if you're going to judge a player surely how he performs when starting a game is what counts. Given that, he's clearly much better as a sub than as a starter.
 
MrMojo said:
Because to make a judgement on a player, particularly on improvement, it's wise to base it on a fair amount evidence. You've completely changed an opinion you've buit of him over the last 2 seasons on the evidence of four starts.Personally I need more than that to form any kind of conclusive judgement.
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Ok then. He's taken part in 12 games this season, and it's as clear as day to see that he has improved his over-all game to a level certainly beyond that of a championship player. Better?
 
So Champions League encounters don't count? Come on mate. Saying Championship level got you into this mess
 
Mojo, then you haven't been watching him closely. He's beaten players a lot more this season than he has in the past. That is a fact. If you want to deny it, I'll leave you to your own rubbish. You're reaching kietotheworld levels here, and that's saying something.

Championship level my arse.
 
Shark22 said:
Ok then. He's taken part in 12 games this season, and it's as clear as day to see that he has improved his over-all game to a level certainly beyond that of a championship player. Better?
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No problem, like I say, I'll reserve my judgement until he's had more than three full decent Premiership games. Seems reasonable to me.

With Rooney out he should get a few more starts and I think what I've been saying will become a bit more evident to you all.
 
Platato said:
Mojo, then you haven't been watching him closely. He's beaten players a lot more this season than he has in the past. That is a fact. If you want to deny it, I'll leave you to your own rubbish. You're reaching kietotheworld levels here, and that's saying something.

Championship level my arse.
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It's all the more ridiculous when you look back at some of the rank average strikers that have had long careers as Premier League players.
 
MrMojo said:
No problem, like I say, I'll reserve my judgement until he's had more than three full decent Premiership games. Seems reasonable to me.

With Rooney out he should get a few more starts and I think what I've been saying will become a bit more evident to you all.
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What? Rooney's role is completely different

Our problems are defensive and to a certain extent midfield creativity. Get the latter right certainly and we'll be making ammuntion for the strikers
 
Joemo said:
Why? He couldn't have finished from where he was after rounding the keeper, and seeing as in the end it was insignificant I'm kind of glad he did it, I think it shows a lot about him that he was still looking for team-mates in a position where he could have attempted what would have probably been a missed shot. If he was going to score from there, he should have dinked it over the keeper at the first opportunity.
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Ok, but he took a shot that hit Coloccini's hand from 20 yards, when he could have easily passed to RVP on the left who was unmarked.
 
Striker in shooting from edge of penalty area shocker.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
What? Rooney's role is completely different

Our problems are defensive and to a certain extent midfield creativity. Get the latter right certainly and we'll be making ammuntion for the strikers
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RVP will take Rooney's role and Hernandez RVPs.
 
MrMojo said:
He's Championship level outside the box but he's unique in a way and so as a backup he's perfect.

His commitment yesterday was great, ran himself into oblivion.
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He's country miles better than Welbeck will ever be, and a lot of posters rate him highly on here so that's saying something.
 
What does he have to do to get a full game?

Seriously, do we know why he didn't start today?
 
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