Javier Hernandez | 2011/12 Performances

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I remember a few times when he was on the wing and play broke down because of him. Maybe I was exaggerating originally. I just don't feel he contributed much at all aside from the goal. He may have done better than I gave him credit for I guess, but I still prefer Welbeck in almost every department.

you're mistaking your expectations for what is actual competent play. he had a decent layoff for one of rooney's shots. I dont really see how you could complain. He kept the ball moving. Sure nothing spectacular but it wasn't like when the ball came to his feet, it bounced off his foot like a ball hitting a wall. Also, his pass to welbeck led to the second penalty. He was good today. Shame on you my friend. Shame.
 
Not sure what you're talking about. Did you watch the stoke game? his link-up play was good and even today it wasn't that bad. Yes, it needs improvement but it's not as bad as you make out

I thought it was even worse against Stoke. I'm not trying to take credit away from him because as I've said when in form his link up play can be good. I think he is steadily getting back in to that form but up to this point he still is doing very poorly in that department and offers next to nothing. He is very frustrating to me at the moment.
 
I thought it was even worse against Stoke. I'm not trying to take credit away from him because as I've said when in form his link up play can be good. I think he is steadily getting back in to that form but up to this point he still is doing very poorly in that department and offers next to nothing. He is very frustrating to me at the moment.

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you're mistaking your expectations for what is actual competent play. he had a decent layoff for one of rooney's shots. I dont really see how you could complain. He kept the ball moving. Sure nothing spectacular but it wasn't like when the ball came to his feet, it bounced off his foot like a ball hitting a wall. Also, his pass to welbeck led to the second penalty. He was good today. Shame on you my friend. Shame.

I'm not trying to take anything away from him really, I do love the little man and he scored a crucial. I just feel he is below his standard currently and he is disappointing in that particular area. He is beginning to get better again though and this is a great time of the season for him to come in to form. I still much prefer Welbeck currently though.

Maybe some of my frustration today was due to the manner in which he was subbed on, it didn't make any sense to me putting Welbeck out on the wing when I thought he was playing very well up top.
 
Hernandez yet again proves that he converts chances, wonder if people are still going to get mad because of the things he can't do, rather than appreciate him for what he is and understand his position in the team!
 

He's scored one goal in open play recently, I don't see how that is too outrageous of a statement. Today he was better than I made him out to be. But up until this point he has been very frustrating, constantly offside and often needlessly loosing the ball.
 
He's scored one goal in open play recently, I don't see how that is too outrageous of a statement. Today he was better than I made him out to be. But up until this point he has been very frustrating, constantly offside and often needlessly loosing the ball.

How many times has he started recently? You're acting like he's played in every game this season. He's been out injured 3 times this season having gotten injured in pre-season but he's still got stats of 1 goal in every 3 games. You've gone from criticising Chicharito's build up play to complaining he should have scored more when he's hardly played since he got back to full fitness. Your argument is baffling.
 
The best thing about Hernandez is that almost all his goals are "important" goals. He'll rarely score a 4th or 5th goal in a rout or a consolation in a defeat. He'll always be there scoring late equalisers, winners or first goals in important comebacks.
 
How many times has he started recently? You're acting like he's played in every game this season. He's been out injured 3 times this season having gotten injured in pre-season but he's still got stats of 1 goal in every 3 games. You've gone from criticising Chicharito's build up play to complaining he should have scored more when he's hardly played since he got back to full fitness. Your argument is baffling.

I haven't gone from that at all, you're the one who made it seem like saying he is frustrating is an outrageous thing to say. All I've said in argument to that is pointed out that he hasn't been scoring, and that his link-up play has been rather poor. Knowing those facts I think its reasonable of me to say he has been frustrating.
 
he did well for the few chances he had, deadly inside the box. if all he does is score big goals he'll have a place in the team.
 
He changed the game when he came on and he linked up really well with Rooney which is the only link up play that matters when it comes to Chicharito.
 
I honestly don't think he's a technically good footballer. His contribution outside the box is poor. But feck me he's a world class predator and finisher.
 
I'm surprised how some people can criticise Hernandez, especially when it is clear that he is by far the finisher in the PL and as someone pointed out earlier he can do it in the big games.

I recall there was a stat last year showing his shot to goal ratio is higher than any other player so lets accept him for that than try to mould him to a link player, i would rather him be a total finisher than anything else...
 
I had a rant in my room when watching the game. First ball to him when he just came on and he was well offside.....again :D Delighted he got on the scoresheet though. If he gets inform again it will be ace with the fixtures we are facing over the next few weeks.
 
I honestly don't think he's a technically good footballer. His contribution outside the box is poor. But feck me he's a world class predator and finisher.

If only everyone understood and accepted that by now!

I'm surprised how some people can criticise Hernandez, especially when it is clear that he is by far the finisher in the PL and as someone pointed out earlier he can do it in the big games.

I recall there was a stat last year showing his shot to goal ratio is higher than any other player so lets accept him for that than try to mould him to a link player, i would rather him be a total finisher than anything else...

I agree. He more than holds his own when he gets chances, it's just in this team he doesn't get a lot of through balls to create 1 on 1 situations or open play chances whereby he can do what he does best - finish. What he can do is score goals from crosses, corners & free kicks because he is a predator as you say.

If people want to criticise his link-up play then they should criticise Fergie for putting him in the team, because Fergie knows and we should know exactly what type of player he is, and that isn't a master playmaker! It's a finisher!
 
4 goals against chelsea already in his time here, all in different games.

He's often suited to playing against them. His pace is perfect for exploiting Terry, which has helped on previous occasions. The high backline that Chelsea play often helps him as well, because of his predatory nature and pace.
 
I'm surprised how some people can criticise Hernandez, especially when it is clear that he is by far the finisher in the PL and as someone pointed out earlier he can do it in the big games.

I recall there was a stat last year showing his shot to goal ratio is higher than any other player so lets accept him for that than try to mould him to a link player, i would rather him be a total finisher than anything else...

I am not a fan of his style of play and the style of play that the team has to adopt when he is playing. He is a brilliant impact substitute as his movement is a nightmare for tired defenders. It is his all round game that I am not a fan of, he is only really effective with balls coming in from the wings and look, he is as good as it gets in those situations and the guy has a big time temperament, as proven by his record in big games. That said, I much prefer seeing Welbeck starting because of his all round game and the more fluid football that we play with him in the team.
 
His contribution outside the box isn't poor at all. His main strength is finishing but that doesn't mean the rest of his gameplay is poor.

Oh and he has already rescued points for us against Liverpool and Chelsea, he is a class act.
 
I had a rant in my room when watching the game. First ball to him when he just came on and he was well offside.....again

I think this was part of my frustration with him in today's game, that coupled with the scoreline probably clouded my judgement of his performance. I was frustrated from the beginning and did not judge him fairly after that. After watching the highlights again with out all of drama changed my opinion of his performance. I'll admit to those I've been arguing with that I was overly harsh on his performance in today's game.
 
"frustrated".... with Hernandez?.... today?

:lol:

Read my whole post and the one I responded too.

I think it's a very fair statement to say that he has been frustrating in recent weeks when he has started or came off the bench. His first few actions of today's game were being offside and barging in to someone for a needless foul and stoppage of the clock.

Being angry at the way the game was going coupled with my expectations from his recent performances made me frustrated at his first few actions and I judged him harshly from there.

I've already stated that I was harsh on my original assessments of his performance today and admitted I was wrong after watching the highlights over again.
 
He changed the game when he came on and he linked up really well with Rooney which is the only link up play that matters when it comes to Chicharito.

Spot on.

The sight of him and Welbeck bombing forward ahead of Rooney creating acres of space... pure sexy football.

Take a bow Chicharito... you changed the game.
 
I'm not trying to take anything away from him really, I do love the little man and he scored a crucial. I just feel he is below his standard currently and he is disappointing in that particular area. He is beginning to get better again though and this is a great time of the season for him to come in to form. I still much prefer Welbeck currently though.

Maybe some of my frustration today was due to the manner in which he was subbed on, it didn't make any sense to me putting Welbeck out on the wing when I thought he was playing very well up top.

It's decent at best but your emotions are getting the best of you. In terms of receiving the ball and actually doing something with it, we saw him do that consistently against stoke. If you still disagree then watch the game and tell me the instances in which you felt he was poor.

I'm watching the same game you guys are but it's honestly getting a bit tiring reading these lazy arguments about Hernandez's build-up play when recently he's looked sharper than he has earlier in the season. Against Blackburn, he was terrible. Against Stoke and today with Chelsea he was much better. It wasn't anything spectacular but it wasn't as bad as you and jimmy are making out.

Ever since he's arrived, Ferguson has commented on how he needs to improve technically. I'm not sure if this goes over your guys' heads or not. After SAF said that, there's been a gradual improvement with Chicharito's play. When he first came here, all he did was play the pass back to sender and then turn and run. We used it to good effect but I knew that in this type of league, that's not something you can do forever especially if you're playing for United.

I know his build-up play hasn't really ever been that great but I can tell from watching him for a while that he's definitely working on it. I think some of you get caught up in the big picture and just dont see the small changes he's trying to make to his game. If you're not paying attention to it, you won't see it. This isn't me saying I'm better at seeing something in players than you. It's me simply saying I dont think you're really looking at the full picture when it comes to Hernandez. From what I've seen from him thus far, I dont think he'll be just a finisher. Ferguson's comments don't back that and what Hernandez has said consistently doesn't really back that either.

In some way or another, our strikers are expected to contribute to the game. Currently, Welbeck's hold up play is better than Hernandez's. There's no disputing that. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean that Hernandez isn't making improvements even though it might not be glaringly obvious. If you compare his approach to the ball now and what he's trying to do with it when he receives to it to when he first came here, you'll notice that it's not the same. Like I said he's slowly integrating more things into his game and I dont think we'll consistently see the fruits of that until late into this season or next season. He's had a late start due to lack of a proper pre-season.

This isn't really all targeted at you but it's provoked me to respond once again. It's the same shit with DDG. Just lazy arguments and the same shit gets recycled without there being much thought to it.
 
I think this was part of my frustration with him in today's game, that coupled with the scoreline probably clouded my judgement of his performance. I was frustrated from the beginning and did not judge him fairly after that. After watching the highlights again with out all of drama changed my opinion of his performance. I'll admit to those I've been arguing with that I was overly harsh on his performance in today's game.

At least you acknowledge you were being harsh. The thing with him being offsides is weird because of his quickness just seems to make assistant referees want to call him off. It also has to do with the person with the ball passing it to him. All about timing really and when it's executed perfectly (i.e. think WC, Mexico v. France), there's little you can do about it. Though I do agree. Him being offside can be very frustrating.
 
Fergie said in his post match interview, he probably made a mistake not starting Hernandez today because of the problems he posed the Chelsea backline when he came on. I'm inclinded to agree with him.
 
He came on, linked up with Rooney to create a chance.....linked with Welbeck to create a chance that led to a penalty........then he scored the equalizer with a great piece of movement and an excellent header.......Yeah, I'll take that.
 
If you break it down to the lowest level, Hernandez does one thing which has two outcomes.

His movement is the one thing. What it creates is A. A goal for himself, or B. Space for his team mates to work in.

So when he isn't in form he doesn't look like much of a Footballer as unlike other players he's not really involved enough to make it up in any other areas so it's a bit of a Black or White thing with him. He's either hugely effective and rated very highly as such or he has no effect on the game, is frustrating to watch and is labelled shit.
 
Ever since he's arrived, Ferguson has commented on how he needs to improve technically. I'm not sure if this goes over your guys' heads or not. After SAF said that, there's been a gradual improvement with Chicharito's play. When he first came here, all he did was play the pass back to sender and then turn and run. We used it to good effect but I knew that in this type of league, that's not something you can do forever especially if you're playing for United.

I know his build-up play hasn't really ever been that great but I can tell from watching him for a while that he's definitely working on it. I think some of you get caught up in the big picture and just dont see the small changes he's trying to make to his game. If you're not paying attention to it, you won't see it. This isn't me saying I'm better at seeing something in players than you. It's me simply saying I dont think you're really looking at the full picture when it comes to Hernandez. From what I've seen from him thus far, I dont think he'll be just a finisher. Ferguson's comments don't back that and what Hernandez has said consistently doesn't really back that either.

I did acknowledge in some of my earlier posts today that I know he is capable of much better and that this recent dip is not something I think is permanent by any means. That is part of the reason he has been so frustrating to me lately. I definitely agree that he has been improving in his time at United. He is slowly coming back to form but up until this point I think he has been very poor in his overall play since the latest injury. The constant offsides really annoyed me and I think the fact that his first action today was to be offside coupled with the scoreline at the time clouded my judgement.

I can understand all of your arguments if you thought I meant he hasn't ever or won't ever be capable of good link-up play but that isn't what I was trying to say at all.
 
People are always saying how Welbeck is so much more all rounded, able to bring more to the game etc etc. Thing is I've yet to see Welbeck make the kind of impact that Chicharito has. It's all well and good being strong and hardworking, holding up the ball etc, but the actual contribution to the game in terms of scoring and creating actual clear-cut opportunities for goals still lags behind Hernandez.

Maybe they're each suited to playing against different types of defences. I did love it when we had all 3 strikers on the pitch though, the movement was fantastic and we looked capable of scoring in every attack.
 
I did acknowledge in some of my earlier posts today that I know he is capable of much better and that this recent dip is not something I think is permanent by any means. That is part of the reason he has been so frustrating to me lately. I definitely agree that he has been improving in his time at United. He is slowly coming back to form but up until this point I think he has been very poor in his overall play since the latest injury. The constant offsides really annoyed me and I think the fact that his first action today was to be offside coupled with the scoreline at the time clouded my judgement.

I can understand all of your arguments if you thought I meant he hasn't ever or won't ever be capable of good link-up play but that isn't what I was trying to say at all.

I would say up til recently, he hasnt consistently displayed a good touch or just good consistent passing but he's done that in these past 2 games this week. I think he'll get better as the season progresses.

The point about is link-up play not ever being good was totally directed at you. I was addressing the recycled arguments that I see time and again and it's just straight up laziness.

I think we agree for the most part. I just took exception about what you were saying in regards to his link-up play for these past two games which I found overly harsh.
 
People are always saying how Welbeck is so much more all rounded, able to bring more to the game etc etc. Thing is I've yet to see Welbeck make the kind of impact that Chicharito has. It's all well and good being strong and hardworking, holding up the ball etc, but the actual contribution to the game in terms of scoring and creating actual clear-cut opportunities for goals still lags behind Hernandez.

Maybe they're each suited to playing against different types of defences. I did love it when we had all 3 strikers on the pitch though, the movement was fantastic and we looked capable of scoring in every attack.

I think if Welbeck had remained on we might have scored another. Chelsea's backline were shitting bricks with those 3 running at them.
 
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