Javier Hernandez | 2011/12 Performances

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Drunken elephant at the moment. Its strange, he's never looked too bad whenever he came back from injury.

We're missing him badly. When on form he can stretch defenses and give more space for our midfield to operate in and also bring out the best in Rooney.
 
He's never going to give us anything of real quality in the build-up. What he can do is give our midfielders and Rooney space to operate in, and get on the end of the service from our wide men.

At the moment, he isn't doing this at all, hence he is of no use and should be benched until his form returns.
 
There was something different about him from the offset this season, he looked frustrated and tired and not his usually smiley self. Considering Rooney's patch of form it's very worrying.

We don't really have an attacker on great form at the moment at all :nervous:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Got the touch of a rapist at the moment. Looks like he's got a terrible dose of second season syndrome (better that than Ulcerative Colitis, I suppose)
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When I was in the newbies this Summer I started a thread asking "Javier Hernandez - Second Season Syndrome or Second Season Smash" (always like a bit of alliteration :)) and it was unanimous he would be a smash.

So which is the real Hernandez? The one from last season or the always offside and touch of an elephant one from this season?

I just wonder how much the busy Summer and injuries have effected him.
 
I think it has just been a stop start season for him, a run free of injury and playing he will knock in goals. 6 from 12 starts ain't to bad considering the injuries.
 
The concussion issue and then the ankle injury have nobbled the first half of the season for him, and given his game is so limited, when he's not scoring it highlights his weaknesses.
 
Hasn't looked the same since Ashley Cole did his number on him.
 
I think you all have too high expectations from this lad given his previous season performance. Javier is a limited player, not particularly gifted with an excellent technique, his main and arguably only strenghts are positioning and pace. As much as I like him, I think we've finally been exposed to the player he really is outside his purple patch. Still a useful player mind, but I would never want him to be a first choice striker for us. That said, I know he's a bit better than his actual form is suggesting, however, not by much at all. As stated above, he will never be contributing to our build-up play, in fact, he's actually in the way. Given the magnitude of our club, and the way we play football, it is counter-intuitive to have a player that his only sides to his games are connecting with the end of crosses or through balls.
 
One word.

Service.
 
Jacob said:
I think you all have too high expectations from this lad given his previous season performance. Javier is a limited player, not particularly gifted with an excellent technique, his main and arguably only strenghts are positioning and pace. As much as I like him, I think we've finally been exposed to the player he really is outside his purple patch. Still a useful player mind, but I would never want him to be a first choice striker for us. That said, I know he's a bit better than his actual form is suggesting, however, not by much at all.
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Harsh to say the least. He's a young striker who'l improve with age. to say you'd never want him to be first choice for us is pretty ridiculous considering his record when it comes to scoring goals which is what win matches at the end of the day. Yes, he needs to improve his overall game but to dismiss him the way you have is unfair on the lad.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Harsh to say the least. He's a young striker who'l improve with age. to say you'd never want him to be first choice for us is pretty ridiculous considering his record when it comes to scoring goals which is what win matches at the end of the day. Yes, he needs to improve his overall game but to dismiss him the way you have is unfair on the lad.
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Javier is 23 years of age, he won't get much better than this. Technically wise, players seldom improve after the age of 20. Might've been too harsh, but I prefer Welbeck to him any day of the week. He's still good enough to come on and exploit tiredness of opposition though.
 
Pexbo said:
One word.

Service.
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Exactly. Chicharito doesn't make bad runs. He's caught offside because our players don't release the ball quickly enough. Javier will see a player in midfield with the ball at his feet and then break into a gap. The problem is that player will hold the ball for 2 or 3 seconds longer than they need to before releasing it and by time they kick it he'll be offside. The speed of our passing in midfield last night was abysmal. People talking of the Newcastle pressing need to get real their pressing wasn't Barcelona-esque, United's 2 touch game simply wasn't good enough. If Hernandez had Keane, Scholes, Beckham and Giggs behind him he'd be scoring shed loads of goals.

Are people forgetting that during our dry patch after we got spanked that for awhile everyone but Hernandez forgot how to score winners? Guarantee if he'd have been on the end of the chances Wayne was yesterday he'd have scored...
 
Jacob said:
Javier is 23 years of age, he won't get much better than this. Technically wise, players seldom improve after the age of 20. Might've been too harsh, but I prefer Welbeck to him any day of the week. He's still good enough to come on and exploit tiredness of opposition though.
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Welbeck has a much better all round game, not denying that. But there are facets to hernandez's game like his tough and passing that can definitely be improved regardless of him being 23 now. Add those 2 aspects to his game and he'l be a fine striker. He already has immaculate positioning, pace and finishing ability at a very young age.
 
Hernandez was never the complete player with a fine touch or great passing, he is simply a finisher, always has been and always will be.

Last season he was impressive, feeding almost exclusively from crosses and set pieces. Opportunities from open play are few and far between for him. I think this is where the missing CM is most evident. There is no CM who can frequently play killer balls into the runs of Hernandez, so he must rely on crosses and set-pieces. Yesterday we were having no luck out-wide, and as per, pretty much non-existent through the middle, attacking wise. It was a strange move to bring Hernandez on for me given the circumstances.

If the team behind him is operating well, and most importantly there is a midfielder or even two who have the capacity to slot him in many times (think Fabregas to RVP, Sneijder to Eto, Xavi to Messi), then we can truly see the best of Hernandez. It is unfair to criticise him when he clearly isn't being used properly IMO or at least not being serviced properly.
 
Stop start season. Still got a pretty decent goal return. But I'm sure he knows he has certain parts of his game to work on which he will do and get better.
 
There's no service for him as said. All we do at times is look to cross and cut back but half the time they are poor and the rest he isn't even on the pitch!!! Our corners and free kicks are also poor. We've had a couple of good performances lately but against Newcastle there was NOTHING but cross attempts and long balls. Can't blame Javier IMO.

Lately we've played Rafael, Park, Rooney and a 38 year old Giggs in CM.
 
Chich has been very unfortunate this season;

* no pre-season due to concussion
* suffered a horrific tackle from Cole against Chelsea
* goes off injured after 5 minutes against Stoke
* goes off injured after 5 minutes against Villa

Not to mention even when he has been fit he hasn't always been in the team due to the form of Welbeck
 
charlenefan said:
Chich has been very unfortunate this season;

* no pre-season due to concussion
* suffered a horrific tackle from Cole against Chelsea
* goes off injured after 5 minutes against Stoke
* goes off injured after 5 minutes against Villa

Not to mention even when he has been fit he hasn't always been in the team due to the form of Welbeck
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I agree. It's been very stop-start for him so far this season. He's still always capable of scoring goals. I'm sure he'll get a fair few more before the season is finished.
 
He's a super sub! That will be his long term role. We just need a super starting eleven and we'll be sorted
 
The way people talk of Welbeck's link up play you think he was a hybrid of Rooney and Bergkamp.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Hernandez was never the complete player with a fine touch or great passing, he is simply a finisher, always has been and always will be.

Last season he was impressive, feeding almost exclusively from crosses and set pieces. Opportunities from open play are few and far between for him. I think this is where the missing CM is most evident. There is no CM who can frequently play killer balls into the runs of Hernandez, so he must rely on crosses and set-pieces. Yesterday we were having no luck out-wide, and as per, pretty much non-existent through the middle, attacking wise. It was a strange move to bring Hernandez on for me given the circumstances.

If the team behind him is operating well, and most importantly there is a midfielder or even two who have the capacity to slot him in many times (think Fabregas to RVP, Sneijder to Eto, Xavi to Messi), then we can truly see the best of Hernandez. It is unfair to criticise him when he clearly isn't being used properly IMO or at least not being serviced properly.
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Yeah just like Cole...... :rolleyes:
 
Cole? Are you referring to Andy Cole? Judging by the smiley I'm guessing you disagree, if so what relevance does my post have to Cole?
 
#07 said:
Exactly. Chicharito doesn't make bad runs. He's caught offside because our players don't release the ball quickly enough. Javier will see a player in midfield with the ball at his feet and then break into a gap. The problem is that player will hold the ball for 2 or 3 seconds longer than they need to before releasing it and by time they kick it he'll be offside. The speed of our passing in midfield last night was abysmal. People talking of the Newcastle pressing need to get real their pressing wasn't Barcelona-esque, United's 2 touch game simply wasn't good enough. If Hernandez had Keane, Scholes, Beckham and Giggs behind him he'd be scoring shed loads of goals.

Are people forgetting that during our dry patch after we got spanked that for awhile everyone but Hernandez forgot how to score winners? Guarantee if he'd have been on the end of the chances Wayne was yesterday he'd have scored...
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There comes a point where Hernandez must realize people aren't reading his runs and adapt on the spot rather than continually get called for offside. It's a two way street. He is also one of the faster players on the pitch so surely he could spot them a yard?
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Hernandez was never the complete player with a fine touch or great passing, he is simply a finisher, always has been and always will be.
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I don't think he is even a special finisher. He misses a fair amount of the clear chances he gets. Last season, what was impressive about him was his movement. He would make excellent runs and find himself in the right place to get on the end of a cross or pass. This season, even this ability seems to have deserted him and he looks out of his depth.
 
johnmufc said:
I don't think he is even a special finisher. He misses a fair amount of the clear chances he gets. Last season, what was impressive about him was his movement. He would make excellent runs and find himself in the right place to get on the end of a cross or pass. This season, even this ability seems to have deserted him and he looks out of his depth.
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Fair comment, I think his positioning and movement as you say are his true best attributes, his pace and size helps too. For such a 1 dimensional player though, I'm sure his finishing can improve, furthermore I would suggest he doesn't really get the benefit of perfect through balls as often as he might in another team, so I think right now it's still unfair to judge. Personally I find it incredible that he scores as much as he does primarily through crosses and set-pieces - testament to the attributes you mentioned.
 
Jesus, there's no middle ground with some people.

He's a young player who had a fantastic debut season and is struggling to hit form in the second season where has has repeatedly struggled with injuries and not had a run of games. Out of his depth? Give me a break.
 
I've always said that his all-round play let's him down a bit and this is really being magnified right now because he's not scoring. It's so bad that sometimes I even find myself feeling a bit sorry for him when he messes the most basic thing up. He's not on the same level as our other players when it comes to ball control etc. and you just feel sometimes that he is aware of this and it might play on his mind a little.

What he needs is for the team to find it's form and for him to not have to contribute too much to our build up play as a result. If he is allowed to just focus on making his runs or getting on the end of things then he will be fine. A player of this type will never be considered a first choice here in my opinion, but that doesn't mean a lot as he will still play a lot of games and probably score a lot of goals.
 
He definitely deserves a pass. Injuries have messed with his form a tad (understandably).
He has shown glimpses that he can be pretty decent outside the box, it'll all come together soon enough.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Cole? Are you referring to Andy Cole? Judging by the smiley I'm guessing you disagree, if so what relevance does my post have to Cole?
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Yes. In terms of when Cole came to the club, he was largely billed as just a finisher. He later on developed his game and became more than just a finisher. I've debated so many times about Hernandez being just a finisher that I've just gotten tired of it really.

For some reason, he plays much better with Mexico than he does for us in an overall sense. That doesn't mean that he's some phenomenal all-around player for them but you can tell he's much more comfortable. He seems to have an idea of what he wants to do with the ball. He had one peach of a pass in the Gold Cup final against the US and I'm just not sure if he has the confidence to pull that off here. At least not yet.

I see signs in his game that he's improving but struggling to put it all together. The reality is he's a striker and he needs to score goals to breed more confidence. After his 'goal' against Newcastle, he felt confident enough to try a couple flicks and even nutmeg a player. That's not a sight you see everyday. Is that something you expect from a player that's just a finisher and will always be? I dont think so.

He needs to regain his form. The football over the summer has caught up with him. Like someone else mentioned, lack of a proper pre-season and even more so because of his concussion. The recent injuries have further stunted his progress this season. I'm just hoping he finishes the season strongly because he's been a good player for us. I agree with others that he's been poor. I wont deny that and his poor form is highlighting the weaknesses of his game.

However, I think he needs to score some goals to get some of his confidence back. We're going to need him at some stage this season. It's annoying having all your strikers off-form.
 
Well we know he can do it, and consistently, and that's the main thing.
 
he should donate a weeks wages to charity every time is is caught offside by anything in excess of 5 yards.

by easter unicef will be building water parks in africa
 
ben_foster said:
he should donate a weeks wages to charity every time is is caught offside by anything in excess of 5 yards.

by easter unicef will be building water parks in africa
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He's a finisher. That's what finishers do. Inzaghi was like that and he had probably scored more important goals then all our strikers put together
 
devilish said:
He's a finisher. That's what finishers do. Inzaghi was like that and he had probably scored more important goals then all our strikers put together
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doesnt help matters when we are struggling in midfield and at the back though. we win the ball and he gives them it back for free by being rediculousley offside.

also read my post properly. i have no probslems with him playing on the last shoulder. thats fair enough but when he's caught 5 sometimes 10 yards offside then that is poor poor play
 
ben_foster said:
doesnt help matters when we are struggling in midfield and at the back though. we win the ball and he gives them it back for free by being rediculousley offside.

also read my post properly. i have no probslems with him playing on the last shoulder. thats fair enough but when he's caught 5 sometimes 10 yards offside then that is poor poor play
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That's not his problem though. Sort the midfield and the goals will be flowing.
 
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