Jasper Cillessen | Barcelona player
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Well some one has to do that here, he is no big name and most of us never watch him play much anyway, abit of "scouting" work is needed.
If the Dutch media aren't reporting a sniff, then I very much doubt this is 'close'.
Most people do this, and many of them claim to watch every league week in week out. You're just being honest!
Appreciate that and you obviously have knowledge regarding Cillessen but if he were to come, do you see him able to cope well in the P.L?Nope, I don't get all the panic here and the mentioned fees are ridiculous
Dutch media will probably break the news and they have written nothing. Cillessen just played full 90 minutes, if he were about to leave he wouldn't of. Kishna who is about to be sold hasn't played a match at all. If we were to go for him it could be done within days, Ajax has a shadowlist of goalkeepers since they couldn't replace Blind in time. They don't want to sell though and Cillessen isn't the finished product, I don't think van Gaal will go for him. If he does, it won't be the end of the world since he's pretty good and has potential as he's a latebloomer. Hard for me to predict his potential because of it.
Dealing with crosses isn't his strong point yet, but otherwise he's a very well rounded goalie so I don't think he would struggle more than others. Sorry for the late reply.
Cillessen might also be injured for Ajax their qualifier against Rapid Wien tomorrow, it's unlikely that he will play. Frank de Boer added: 'He really has thigh problems, I would almost say luckily. It has nothing to do with a transfer.'
I don't want any panic in here if Cillessen isn't in the squad selection of Ajax tomorrow, there have been 0 trustworthy articles that link him to us in Dutch media who would probably break the news if anything was happening.
Cheers. I admit I'm sceptical purely based on the caf and the view here on him being average, although most probably haven't seen much of him. And yes, you'd think the dutch media would have some links if he is coming to United.
I rate Cillessen quite high, he's a goalkeeper with real potential imo. Good passer, calm and good at 1v1, good shotstopper and decent at crosses and commanding. No real weak points except that he hasn't saved a penalty yet in his carreer, which isn't a shame since he only played regularly for Ajax 1,5 season. Might I add that he was voted player of the year at Ajax and highest rated Eredivisie player in those 2 seasons.
He is 26 so he is a latebloomer and I think staying at Ajax would benefit him more since he's guaranteed to start, he isn't the finished product and that's why I think van Gaal wouldn't buy him. If de Gea goes we need a starter and I don't think Cillessen is at that level yet. Not that he has massive flaws in his game but I think some more experience would be good for him before he moves.
If however I am wrong and van Gaal signs him I would be OK with it, we could do a whole lot worse. I won't be excited for any replacement goalkeeper but I would trust van Gaal and Hoek their judgement on Cillessen as they surely can do better than me.
He just always looks as if he's about to break into tears.
I think we must differ on this. Im a regular Amsterdam Arena visitor and while i do agree that he is one of the best in the Eredivisie, i would at the same time argue that the Eredivisie has been lacking top keepers for years. It wouldnt be to challenging to become one of the best in the Eredivisie mind you. At 26 he has not shown why he should be a potential number one keeper for a mammoth club as United. For starters i think the opposition will take advantage of his height, just like teams did with De Gea when he first started his journey here. We have seen the trend in the PL with several teams digging themself in and when in possession they just lump the ball in the 16 yard box with tall forwards. Lets just say he would not be my preferred option.
No, we agree. I think Cillessen is a good keeper, I'm defending him on this forum since nobody actually watches him. I've said that I didn't think he's ready for Manchester United and that we shouldn't sign him, he's better off at Ajax but that he has potential since he is a latebloomer.
Good stuff NL Max. Nice to have some input from someone who actually knows a bit about the player.
Yeah, LazyRed-Ninja who is a regular seeing him live also made some very good points about why he'd be an awful choice.
Cool, I'm more interested in people in Holland than those who have seen him on tv a few times.
I like Max but you realize his viewings of him are on the same TV screen that I and others have seen him on though? Him being in Holland doesn't make him an expert on an Ajax player anymore than me being in England automatically makes me an expert on a West Ham player.
I'm guessing he's seen him a fair few times more than you and has access to more information in terms of Dutch analysts. He did a great job on Memphis so I'm willing to take his world on Cillessen as well, as opposed to someone on the outside.
Memphis played for his club PSV, that's why he knew so much about him. I've seen Cillessen play over a dozen times in the last year, unless Max makes a habiit of watching Ajax weekly he probably hasn't seen him loads more, and analysts are worthless, I mean look at the people employed to do analysis in this country, it's the same in all these countries, a bunch of ex players getting easy money to sit on a couch and spout bollocks that fits their agenda.
Ok, then. We'll have to take your expert knowledge after have watched Cillessen religiously seriously then.
Ok, then. We'll have to take your expert knowledge after have watched Cillessen religiously seriously then.
Nah, but you could actually open your mind to the notion that LvG can be wrong and not only positive views on potential transfers are accurate. I mean you singled out the post that fit your narrative, completely ignoring the post linked below from an actual Ajax fan who watches him live, yet you say you are interested in views based off extensive knowledge, doesn't really seem like you are.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jasper-cillessen.404847/page-13#post-17855404
I don't doubt that LvG can be wrong, but I'm quite sure he knows a hell of a lot more about what he wants from a keeper than you or anything you're qualified to talk about. So at the end of the day, I'm quite happy to trust his and Hoak's expertise over some random fan on the internet.
Surely Lazy Red Ninja is best placed here to make a judgement. He is a regular goer to Ajax home games.
NL Max did a good job with Depay yes but LRN actually goes and watches Ajax, not just on the TV.
NL Max did a good job with Depay yes but LRN actually goes and watches Ajax, not just on the TV.
You mean unless that random internet fan is agreeing with the version you want to hear, then you are pleased to have their input. That's fine, he wanted Thomas Kraft in goal for Bayern and just signed a shite keeper that has spent the last 2 seasons as back-up at illustrious clubs like Monaco and Fiorentina, so clearly he has form when it comes to knowing feck all about keepers.
No I mean no fan opinion is going to trump with LvG and Hoak think about a certain player. Unless the fan in question moonlights as a scout, at the end of the day its just an amateur opinion when contrasted with a manager with decades of experience. Case in point Romero - our "experts" here seem to think he's shite, and yet LvG still bought him. There are intangibles that managers look at in terms of the human quality of players, their attitudes, personalities, how they deal with pressure that surely all weigh into these decisions.
I hope we can stop with the "because he's the manager so he must know more than you" argument.That's appeal to authority fallacy.What's the purpose of having a forum for?Manager's opinion might also be impacted from past relationship with the players,age effect and loads of other factors that might make his decision not better than an informed fan.
How about forming your own view on facts such as Romero not even being good enough to start for Fiorentina and Monaco, or the fact LvG has shown already to be a bad judge of keeper and therefore is no more trustworthy than people who watch hours of football every week. Too often the arrogant superiority of people in positions of power leads to them thinking that because they have done something for a long time it actually masks their countless mistakes along the way, as if all we should do is suck up because they have gotten other things right. That isn't objective, it's cult like sheep mentality IMO.
I don't really have a view on Romero, nor would I automatically trust the random views of others who haven't seen him much and aren't scouts. If it was a simple matter of tracking a player in the Prem who is seen week in/out then it would be much easier to have a view on a player. I'm willing to trust the manager and his staff do their due diligence in scouting a player before he is bought, especially if its not a rushed transfer at the end of the window.
Even when the facts point to their bad judgment? Ok then.
Not doubt that weighs into his decision making. If you've worked with someone before, have previously trained them, liked their work, personality, and work ethic, then you are probably going to gravitate towards hiring them again. Those are intangibles that are obviously invisible to arm chair fans with a remote control.
What facts ? I just don't buy this idea that random punters on the internet know more about evaluating players than a top manager with decades of experience. That applies to other facets of life beyond just football.
The facts that Romero wasn't even good enough to start for two nothing teams yet suddenly is playing for Manchester United, or the fact that LvG wanted Thomas Kraft, a keeper languishing at the bottom of the Bundesliga, over the best keeper in the world simply because he "liked him as a person?" I'd say those are facts that show when it comes to keepers LvG is not one to trust, I don't care if he has been in the game 50 years.
Do you think LvG and his staff deliberately ignored the facts before deciding on signing him ? If so, you are accusing our manager and his assistant of extreme negligence and unprofessionalism. If you don't think that, then you have to accept their expert opinion and move along. Which is it ?
He looks a little bit like Eminem, circa 1999.
"Dear Louis, I wrote you but you still ain't callin"
"Dear Louis, I wrote you but you still ain't callin"
It’s not my intention to present myself as the Cillessen oracle here, but it’s true that i am a regular Amsterdam Arena visitor. I have followed Cillisen since his NEC (lower class club) and young Ajax (similair to the u-21’s) days. He had a tough rival in Vermeer who was the undisputed number one keeper for Ajax. In fact, he only played a handfull of games in his first two seasons. 2013-2014 was his breakthrough season. Cilissen is not a spectacular keeper and at times he looks quite stiff. In our Ajax circles we agree that he has been improving and deserves to be the number one keeper here, but playing for United would be the wrong choice in my opinion.He needs to improve on his aerial abilities. I have seen him grasping at air to many times during corners and other long balls. Trust me, i would have loved to write a post about how he is the second coming off and the solution for a potential De Gea exit, but that would be unrealistic and unfair. In terms of distributing he is right up there (hence the fact LVG likes him), but adapting to the PL means improving on his aerial abilities and i can not see that happening on short notice. A risky choice if this were to happen.
Yes, I think this is an LvG driven buy that is based purely off him liking him as he gave him his debut at AZ in a 3rd tier league where he played in goal for LvG's title winning team. I mean come on, we are about to sell the most expensive player in PL history after one season because LvG and his staff didn't do their due diligence, as if they had they'd surely have went into the "Human aspect" stuff and saw a mentally fragile, not very intelligent mercenary who never wanted to be here. Or are you saying our club and manager bought him simply to show how big our dick was and ignored all of these factors?
I personally have not seen him play, but it's scary to see so many underwhelming assessments on Cillesen. Really wondering if LvG and Hoek know something we don't, or are they just going with a familiar choice. Or maybe they feel that dealing with aerial balls is something that is more easily coached than postioning, ball-skills and distribution.
As for Romero ... Hmmm I'd much rather have done for Bergovic as no.2. But oh well.
As for Romero ... Hmmm I'd much rather have done for Bergovic as no.2. But oh well.
I'm more inclined to take LvGs word, he had him at the World Cup and worked with him close up for an extended period over a fans. If Louis thinks he's the guy, that's good enough for me.
Hopefully he plays for Ajax tonight and gets cup tied, he would a very poor and expensive signing for us both in terms of the points and transfer fee he will cost us. He isn't a bad keeper but he isn't a good one either and he shouldn't even be someone we are looking at.
If we sign him that will be three keepers signed all of whom have worked with LVG before and Valdes would be the only one with any real pedigree. There are much better options out there and if we do need to replace de gea we should be targeting the best possible replacement not dropping down to the likes of cillessen.
If we sign him that will be three keepers signed all of whom have worked with LVG before and Valdes would be the only one with any real pedigree. There are much better options out there and if we do need to replace de gea we should be targeting the best possible replacement not dropping down to the likes of cillessen.
I seem to be the only one who thinks this is off, since we signed Sergio Romero already. There's no way Cillessen is a worthy No. 1 for Man Utd. If De Gea really leaves this window we'll sign either Lloris, Oblak or Leno. Most likely it's De Gea staying for another year, then leaving on a free, which leaves us with almost one year time to scout the perfect successor. And feck me it's not gonna be Cillessen.
YOu're not the only one.
Just one question for those thinking he's shite, how much do you base your opinion on the fact he was subbed in that Netherlands game cause he's bad at penalties?
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