Jarrad Branthwaite

padzilla said:
If we pay anything above 50million it will be a clear indication that nothing has changed in terms of us paying over the odds.
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Why are people so focused on not paying over the odds - I don't care if we pay over the odds as long as we sign the right players. Pallister was well above the odds, Cole was over the odds, Keane was over the odds, Nistelrooy was over the odds, Ferdinand was over the odds.....our problem is not that we are paying too much. Our problem is that we are paying too much for the wrong players.

I would rather we pay £10 million too much for a player we want, than getting a good deal on a player who is 7th on our list
 
lysglimt said:
Why are people so focused on not paying over the odds - I don't care if we pay over the odds as long as we sign the right players. Pallister was well above the odds, Cole was over the odds, Keane was over the odds, Nistelrooy was over the odds, Ferdinand was over the odds.....our problem is not that we are paying too much. Our problem is that we are paying too much for the wrong players.

I would rather we pay £10 million too much for a player we want, than getting a good deal on a player who is 7th on our list
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Price paid only ends up mattering when someone is crap.
 
lysglimt said:
Why are people so focused on not paying over the odds - I don't care if we pay over the odds as long as we sign the right players. Pallister was well above the odds, Cole was over the odds, Keane was over the odds, Nistelrooy was over the odds, Ferdinand was over the odds.....our problem is not that we are paying too much. Our problem is that we are paying too much for the wrong players.

I would rather we pay £10 million too much for a player we want, than getting a good deal on a player who is 7th on our list
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For the right players, of course. But not for all/most players. Otherwise it'll be Woodward all over again and it sets the tone for future negotiations.
 
tenpoless said:
For the right players, of course. But not for all/most players. Otherwise it'll be Woodward all over again and it sets the tone for future negotiations.
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No but if we sign Zirkzee and DeLigt for £30-40 million - which is a good price for those players - Ugarte for £50 million - which is more or less correct - why would people care if we paid £10-15 million too much for Branthwaite IF (and that is a big IF) - ETH and Wilcox etc are convinced he is the player we need
 
Honestly, the lack of gratitude from these diddy clubs when we blatantly try to unsettle their players is really annoying. Almost enough to make me not want to bother in the first place.
 
JinnerJamie said:
No he'd just been relegated to the Championship
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No, Leicester won the league in the 15/16 season and Harry was playing for Hull City in the Championship. The previous season he was on loan for the second half of the season in the Championship to Wigan who got relegated to League 1.
 
Insanity said:
Or they could get relegated, he gets founds out and have to sell him for £20m. £50m is more than fair value for a player of his quality and experience. Now, Everton can demand whatever they want, but it's not certain that his value will only increase from here.
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I agree with the relegation threat, but how exactly would he get "found out"? Yes, after a bad season, his stock would decline, but professional scouts of big clubs would still know how good he is. It's not some sort of gamble where 1 bad season will have United's scouting department thinking that their assessment of the player was way off.
 
cj_sparky said:
No, Leicester won the league in the 15/16 season and Harry was playing for Hull City in the Championship. The previous season he was on loan for the second half of the season in the Championship to Wigan who got relegated to League 1.
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Correct, I was thinking of when he signed for Leicester in 2017.
 
As we don't go any higher that's fine. We have to stop being the joke club, and for me he's really, really not worth this kind of fee already. Paying for potential is dangerous, particularly with CBs who aren't allowed to make mistakes at United.
 
duffer said:
So if you get this dude and De Ligt, what does that mean for all Martinez? A move to midfield or LB? Or a back 3?

Interesting times indeed.
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With a minimum of

38 League Games
8 Europa League Games more than likely 12 games basing that on us getting to the 1/4 finals
2 Cups Game
1 Shield Game

Injuries and suspensions there will be plenty of playing time, especially the dreaded Thursday Sunday routine.
 
SilentWitness said:
Price paid only ends up mattering when someone is crap.
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bingo.
Don't know what people expect here for a highly rated young English player with 3 years left on his contract.
Everton could ask for any price and we are free to pay up or walkaway.
Fecking Maguire deal is evoking PTSD in everyone it seems
 
duffer said:
So if you get this dude and De Ligt, what does that mean for all Martinez? A move to midfield or LB? Or a back 3?

Interesting times indeed.
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Both Martínez and Branthwaite can play either LCB or LB. They can play together as well. We also need to think about it in terms of having a strong squad and depth, rather than being focused on having a strongest XI and signing players based on how they slot into that. Martínez will probably play every game unless he's injured. or needs a rest, or there's an EFL cup game or a home game in the PL vs the bottom team, so it's not essential that he plays.

Just remember how rare it was at times under Ferguson that we'd see the same starting XI two games in a row...or look how Arsenal are signing Calafiori despite having good options already at both LB and LCB. With injuries, suspensions, rotations, advancing from the EL group stages and domestic cups, there should be enough playtime for everyone even if we sign Branthwaite. And the squad just naturally evolves anyway. If someone doesn't get enough playtime, it's because he has no role at the club anymore and they should leave. Like how Zinchenko's already probably leaving Arsenal despite being a key player for them in 2022/23.
 
Vidooq said:
I know it sounds crazy, but I think that It's a win-win scenario for United.
  • If Everton does not sell him for 50m, we can say that we know when to pull out of a deal, and we won't be taken for a ride. It will send a message that United is no longer a cow you can milk at any time. At this exact stage, Woodward would've done something stupid, like throw an extra 30m, just to get him.
  • If Everton does sell him for 50m, we will show that we know how to negotiate, that our second bid is actually, our second and final, and that if not accepted, we are ready to move to other targets if our valuation of a player is not accepted
Before, clubs knew that once we sent the first bid for one of their players, they could absolutely take us to the cleaners. This is why Borussia Dortmund tried that 130m ask for Sancho the first time around, why we had to pay a bit more for Mount, Martinez, and why Ajax got 86m for Antony.
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There is the other option that it continues through the summer. We keep going back in with new bids and on deadline day agree to pay 68.5M
 
duffer said:
So if you get this dude and De Ligt, what does that mean for all Martinez? A move to midfield or LB? Or a back 3?

Interesting times indeed.
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Martinez is first choice on the whole teamsheet at CB. Could see Branthwaite playing LB given our issues there and also general lack of height.
 
lysglimt said:
No but if we sign Zirkzee and DeLigt for £30-40 million - which is a good price for those players - Ugarte for £50 million - which is more or less correct - why would people care if we paid £10-15 million too much for Branthwaite IF (and that is a big IF) - ETH and Wilcox etc are convinced he is the player we need
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Agreed. I don't see Branthwaite as a must have though. Unless if we are offloading one or two CB.
 
If we're getting De Ligt for around 40m, surely that suggests the market has shifted downwards and Everton's valuation is based on past/outdated windows?
 
groovyalbert said:
If we're getting De Ligt for around 40m, surely that suggests the market has shifted downwards and Everton's valuation is based on past/outdated windows?
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Not really, it's just different circumstances. Everton wants to hold on to the player, Bayern are open to offload the player, on bigger wages.
 
Pughnichi said:
There is the other option that it continues through the summer. We keep going back in with new bids and on deadline day agree to pay 68.5M
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True, but if this morning's reports about our 51m bid being accepted for Yoro are true, it really means that we are ready to move on. Whether we will get Yoro or not, it's another thing, as he has his preference.
 
Ineos are playing 4D chess -

“we see him as similar to other high profile defenders in the market. You pay a premium. £70m”

“we’ve just signed ex Ajax, Juventus and Bayern defender De Ligt for £45m”

“Oh……yeah but still!”
 
lysglimt said:
Why are people so focused on not paying over the odds - I don't care if we pay over the odds as long as we sign the right players. Pallister was well above the odds, Cole was over the odds, Keane was over the odds, Nistelrooy was over the odds, Ferdinand was over the odds.....our problem is not that we are paying too much. Our problem is that we are paying too much for the wrong players.

I would rather we pay £10 million too much for a player we want, than getting a good deal on a player who is 7th on our list
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I agree with your point to a degree there but Cole was the reigning Golden Boot holder when we signed him. Ferdinand had arguably been Leeds' best player in a run to the CL semi final the previous season. Branthwaite cant even get into the England squad right now who are having to play Luke Shaw in central defence due to a lack of other options.
 
Utd heap said:
Really is fantastic to come on and check the progress of a signing yet get cutting edge analysis like this.
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Wonder what the odds are on finding the same poster complaining about De Ligt’s injury history in another thread
 
Think we need to learn to walk away. Everton would love us to cough up that £70m - they’re desperate for that cash to help even their books.

If they reject £50m, I say we stop chasing him and move on. He’ll stay, likely be disgruntled, perhaps not have a great season and if we’re still keen next year we can potentially get him for cheaper.

I don’t want to see us sucked into paying overinflated prices for largely unproven players - which he is (£50m is still ridiculous in my opinion)
 
Camy89 said:
Think we need to learn to walk away. Everton would love us to cough up that £70m - they’re desperate for that cash to help even their books.

If they reject £50m, I say we stop chasing him and move on. He’ll stay, likely be disgruntled, perhaps not have a great season and if we’re still keen next year we can potentially get him for cheaper.

I don’t want to see us sucked into paying overinflated prices for largely unproven players - which he is.
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If we were 'desperate' we would hardly be so firm in our approach.
 
SilentWitness said:
If we were 'desperate' we would hardly be so firm in our approach.
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Disagree. I think they’re taking this approach because United have been known to be a pathetic soft touch when it comes to paying over the odds.

Perhaps desperate wasn’t the right word but it would certainly go a long way to plug a fairly large financial hole what with the stadium etc. I imagine the board are very keen to see that hole plugged with United money.
 
Camy89 said:
Disagree. I think they’re taking this approach because United have been known to be a pathetic soft touch when it comes to paying over the odds.

Perhaps desperate wasn’t the right word but it would certainly go a long way to plug a fairly large financial hole what with the stadium etc. I imagine the board are very keen to see that hole plugged with United money.
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Not really. We are about to be taken over so financially we will be fine. We will probably sell Onana, perhaps DCL too so the value we have set on Branthwaite is our we don't want to sell but if he has to leave it will be for at least this price. We will be happy to keep him.
 
He's not worth more than £50m. He's done nothing of note to warrant that price. He's not won anything, he's not in the England team and he's not even playing for a top 12 side let alone top 6.

I don't care if blinkered Everton fans disagree either.
 
Hope the club don't go past 50 mill on him. He's a good player, potential to be very good but at this stage that's all it is, potential. I've watched him a few times albeit it in a poor everton team. He's looked good, nothing out of the ordinary. Looks like Everton have their minds set on 70 mill. Not a chance we should be paying that. The old regime would have, let's hope this new one shows some balls and don't cave in.
 
padzilla said:
I agree with your point to a degree there but Cole was the reigning Golden Boot holder when we signed him. Ferdinand had arguably been Leeds' best player in a run to the CL semi final the previous season. Branthwaite cant even get into the England squad right now who are having to play Luke Shaw in central defence due to a lack of other options.
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I am not questioning that Cole and Ferdinand were excellent players - but your logic is not waterproof. You are using Cole as example and then stating that Branthwaite can't even get into the England squad. And granted - Cole was up against harder competition but he had yet to make his debut for England by the time he signed for us. And by 1999 (4 years after joining us) - Cole had 2 caps for England.

But Cole cost us £7 million (£6 million + Gillespie valued at £1 million) - he had been the topscorer in the P.L - but his goalratio although still good, was not near that level in his second season. He was not playing for England - and during the summer of 1994 - the 2 most expensive signings as I recall - were Phil Babb who Liverpool paid £3.5 or £3.6 million for, and Chris Sutton who in many ways was quite similar to Cole. He had scored 25 goals for Norwich, he was not an England international and many felt Blackburn paid over the odds when they signed him for £5 million. 6 months later - we signed Cole for 40% more than what Blackburn signed Sutton for. And as much as Cole was a success - to destroy the transfer record to sign him for £7 million was over the odds - by quite a bit.

Ferdinand as previously mentioned was different - he was established for England - was named in the FIFA team of the 2002 world cup......BUT.....we paid almost £30 million for Ferdinand. The year before we signed Veron for almost the same amount - but he was a midfielder, and at the time maybe one of the best in the world - so you could expect the fee to be slightly higher. After Ferdinand - Shevchenko in 2006 and Robinho in 2008 set new transfer records - but only marginally (Robinho was £32 million I think). So - as brilliant as Ferdinand was - clearly we overpaid for him.

And if you look at the transfers made around the time we signed Ferdinand - Lampard cost £14-15 milion, Duff cost £17 million, Crespo and Makelele £16 million - no other player than Veron was even close to the same amount as Ferdinand for many years. So yes - he was certainly over the odds.
 
poleglass red said:
Hope the club don't go past 50 mill on him. He's a good player, potential to be very good but at this stage that's all it is, potential. I've watched him a few times albeit it in a poor everton team. He's looked good, nothing out of the ordinary. Looks like Everton have their minds set on 70 mill. Not a chance we should be paying that. The old regime would have, let's hope this new one shows some balls and don't cave in.
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Every time I watched him, he was doing last ditch tacklings which gives the vibes of poor reading of the game and positioning.
 
Camy89 said:
Think we need to learn to walk away. Everton would love us to cough up that £70m - they’re desperate for that cash to help even their books.

If they reject £50m, I say we stop chasing him and move on. He’ll stay, likely be disgruntled, perhaps not have a great season and if we’re still keen next year we can potentially get him for cheaper.

I don’t want to see us sucked into paying overinflated prices for largely unproven players - which he is (£50m is still ridiculous in my opinion)
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problem with that is we’re still going to need to bring in an additional CB this year beyond de Ligt. It looks as if the club is serious about parting ways with Maguire and/or Lindelof. So if we bring in another CB why would we then go for Branthwaite next year?

All of this could be avoided if we stopped targeting so many players from other Premier League teams. They’re going to try and fleece us every time. They’re not as desperate for cash as teams on the continent so they can afford to hold out for bigger sums and even retain the player if their valuation isn’t met. How much would a Branthwaite cost if he played in Portugal or Italy or South America?
 
Because he's ambifootrus he can cover for LCB, RCB and LB. He also has height. He's not worth 70 mill but he has a lot of attributes we are missing in our team. I think he will be useful
 
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