Jarrad Branthwaite

We have already offered them more than that. Not sure what planet you're living on if you consider £15-20m to be a fair price.
It is fair price considering we got players that are better in that position and that he is just a talent. Nothing more. You can find talent all over the world that are even better for even less money. We should not fall into that media trap and sign who they think is quality. Something we done before and something that got us in this position.

McTominay is as good as Rice
Branthwaite is worth no more than 15-20 million.

Are you one of those @horsechoker @rimaldo account?
You are correct. McTominay is as good as Rice and can even say he won more trophies last season. Branthwaite is just a talent. Nothing more. Done nothing yet to show he would be worth a lot more. We need to stop going into trap to sign those kind of players.
 
I’ve never said this before about his video analysis and I hope I never have to again but I found this one biased, like he was letting his preconceptions affect his analysis. I wasn’t the only person to call it out. So, look at the data, use your eyes, read what Everton fans are saying and make your own decision
Fair enough. I did think his title (both options) came across as sensationalist. But like I said, I know very little about the player aside from clips and that video and was coloured mightily unimpressed.

He did play for PSV and Blackburn so you could watch those games
Come on now.
 
Who rates him? English media?

That argument is used for every young player. Although, statistics will tell you it only works out for a very very small percentage of players.

No one expects him to be the complete package. But by that age the glimpses of a players qualities are easily visible. Physical attributes are simply not enough to succeed at a top club. Magurie has the physical attributes and is a much better passer. Still he has never looked like a Manchester United player.

Most people do including Manchester United's scouts.

At age 21 Jarrad is considered as one of the most promising CBs in the world. He's doing very well in one of the toughest leagues in the world which is more to the likes of Vidic and Van Dijk could say at his age. Yes there's still areas of his game that needs to improve. His passing is one of them although its not that worse then Maguire's (80.09% vs 83.39%). If you consider that the former play in a Dyke team while the latter play in an ETH's team that you have to concede that the gap is even lower then that. Jarrad is superior to Maguire in terms of interceptions, blocks, successful tackles, clearances, headed clearances and aerial battles won. He's a better defender despite him being way younger.

Regarding physical attributes I am referring to the strange mix of mobility and inches. At 6ft4 Jarrad can clock more KM/H then even the likes of Guehi and Stones let alone Maguire. That's something Maguire always lacked.

Should we pay a straight 70m for him? The answer is no. However we need to take things into context as well. Varane is gone so we need a first team replacement. We can't sign Todibo, Guehi is at 65m while Scalvini, Calafiori and Bremer are at 50m-60m a piece. So unless we want to either stick to Maguire or buy a kid with zero experience (lets not forget that we have no idea if Martinez didn't catch the injury prone bug) then we'll have to spend around the 50m-60m range. So I don't mind if we spend 55m + add ons on him
 
Let me ask you this - do you think VVD is great at playing out from the back ? I agree it is a huge bonus - but I would rather have a guy who is 6'5 and very quick - which allows us to keep a high line. Which we never could do with Maguire.
Is that even a question? Even young VVD was on another level compared to Branthwaite. If anything it was his defending that improved during his Celtic and Soton days. I'd say he is the complete package player.
 
Most people do including Manchester United's scouts.

At age 21 Jarrad is considered as one of the most promising CBs in the world. He's doing very well in one of the toughest leagues in the world which is more to the likes of Vidic and Van Dijk could say at his age. Yes there's still areas of his game that needs to improve. His passing is one of them although its not that worse then Maguire's (80.09% vs 83.39%). If you consider that the former play in a Dyke team while the latter play in an ETH's team that you have to concede that the gap is even lower then that. Jarrad is superior to Maguire in terms of interceptions, blocks, successful tackles, clearances, headed clearances and aerial battles won. He's a better defender despite him being way younger.

Regarding physical attributes I am referring to the strange mix of mobility and inches. At 6ft4 Jarrad can clock more KM/H then even the likes of Guehi and Stones let alone Maguire. That's something Maguire always lacked.

Should we pay a straight 70m for him? The answer is no. However we need to take things into context as well. Varane is gone so we need a first team replacement. We can't sign Todibo, Guehi is at 65m while Scalvini, Calafiori and Bremer are at 50m-60m a piece. So unless we want to either stick to Maguire or buy a kid with zero experience (lets not forget that we have no idea if Martinez didn't catch the injury prone bug) then we'll have to spend around the 50m-60m range. So I don't mind if we spend 55m + add ons on him

The same United scouts have been been helping with the recruitment the last eleven years. They have given us some gems like AWB, Maguire, Antony etc. I won't go back to trusting them so swiftly just because someone has bought the rights to run the football department.

Again, who says that he is one of the most promising CB's in the world at 21? He is doing well in a team that plays park the bus hoofball football under a very negative manager. Maguire also looked good when he played his football at Leicester, who employed similar tactics. Passing numbers never tell the whole story unless verified with the eye test. For example, as you mentioned, Maguire's passing numbers are not bad but he crumbles whenever he is pressured on the ball. To become a team that is good at playing out from the back we need someone is good when pressured and can pass the ball well between the lines. Nothing suggests that Brainthwaite is that guy.

If we want to remain a team that plays back to the wall counter-attacking football then I can understand going for Brainthwaite. However, if our plan is to become a progressive team that is good at keeping and moving the ball then we need someone better.
 
Its funny that I see reports stating Manutd want to avoid sagas this window. This has been what now 2 weeks? Looks like this is going to be a saga.
 
Its funny that I see reports stating Manutd want to avoid sagas this window. This has been what now 2 weeks? Looks like this is going to be a saga.
Everything we are involved in turns into a saga because of the extraordinary level of media attention we attract.

If you look at the reality, we made a bid, they rejected it. We could hardly come to the table immediately with a better offer, that would weaken our hand immensely, so we are waiting both to not appear desperate and to see how the PSR situation plays out. The media will always make noise whatever the club does. Best to just ignore it and focus on the outcomes.
 
Becuase I’m too busy (lazy) for that

Well I didn't mean you specifically, you wrote "If we can’t tell then we should probably steer clear" and I was saying that his games at PSV and Blackburn are relevant here not just Everton
 
Meh. They'll find a workaround before they lower Branthwaite's price. Better to get rid of no marks while it's still allowed than sell a key player.
 
5 days to go before 30th June - tick tock.

Would expect to hear some developments in the next day or so otherwise this one is over.
 
Remember they also have to register deals and get the first payment to qualify. Transactions probably don’t happen over the weekend too.

Good luck to them
 
Would they be interested in Wan Bissaka? If yes, then him plus 30-35 million would be a good business for both sides.
 
He wants to leave and you’re desperate for the money. Tell United what you want for him and make a deal that is reasonable and suits both parties. Gets you out of trouble and we get a player we want. Sorted.

:confused:
 
Is that even a question? Even young VVD was on another level compared to Branthwaite. If anything it was his defending that improved during his Celtic and Soton days. I'd say he is the complete package player.
In the highlands league
 
Is that even a question? Even young VVD was on another level compared to Branthwaite. If anything it was his defending that improved during his Celtic and Soton days. I'd say he is the complete package player.

Did you watch much of Groningen when Van Dijk was 21?

Stop making things up. The only result is that people won't take your opinions seriously. Branthwaite is much higher rated now than Van Dijk was at 21, and he is doing it in the toughest and fastest league in the world.
 
Did you watch much of Groningen when Van Dijk was 21?

Stop making things up. The only result is that people won't take your opinions seriously. Branthwaite is much higher rated now than Van Dijk was at 21, and he is doing it in the toughest and fastest league in the world.
You misunderstood my post. The context was his qualities to play out from the back, I wasn't saying that the 21 Van Dijk at Groningen was a better player than current Branthwaite, which I agree he was not. It is a quality sign that Branthwaite is starting in the toughest league and in that regard he might be much more advanced in his development. But ultimately it's the on the ball and build up qualities that he lacks, which makes me think he isn't worth the 70m asking fee.
 
You misunderstood my post. The context was his qualities to play out from the back, I wasn't saying that the 21 Van Dijk at Groningen was a better player than current Branthwaite, which I agree he was not. It is a quality sign that Branthwaite is starting in the toughest league and in that regard he might be much more advanced in his development. But ultimately it's the on the ball and build up qualities that he lacks, which makes me think he isn't worth the 70m asking fee.

I understand your worries, but we don't need two elite ball-playing centre backs. It would be preferable, but there are very few defenders out there who are elite defensively, aerially and ball playing abilities. That's why we need to form a partnership that functions well and can cover for each others weaknesses, like Ferdinand and Vidic.

In our case, Martinez would be responsible for building up from the back and Branthwaite would be the most physical and aerially dominant defender of the two. Maybe it works brilliantly or maybe it won't, but it will very likely work better as a duo than having two ball playing centre backs who are not particularly great aerially or physically (Todibo, Yoro etc).

My personal choice would be Antonio Silva as I think he has an incredibly high ceiling and is very complete. Whether he lives up to his potential is hard to say, but for me it's a risk worth taking.
 
Meh. They'll find a workaround before they lower Branthwaite's price. Better to get rid of no marks while it's still allowed than sell a key player.

That's exactly what I see them doing before Sunday
 
I wonder if elite defensive skills (combined with physical attributes) are rarer than ball playing skills today for CBs. There seems to be such a deficit of actually top class defenders (and strikers) today. Perhaps because players are trained so early to be ball players and robust defending is almost vilified - because of some quote Maldini said years ago. There is a risk those qualities go under valued. Varane isn't exactly perfect on the ball but he was good enough to win all those CLs due to his exceptional defensive attributes.

So I guess the question our decision makers will be asking is whether this guy can develop into a top 10 CB in the world on the basis of his physical and defensive attributes - within the team concept it's possible for other players to do the playmaking, with a solid base.
 
They will probably swap some cleaning ladies with Villa - and both will claim that the value was £10 million each
 
I wonder if elite defensive skills (combined with physical attributes) are rarer than ball playing skills today for CBs. There seems to be such a deficit of actually top class defenders (and strikers) today. Perhaps because players are trained so early to be ball players and robust defending is almost vilified - because of some quote Maldini said years ago. There is a risk those qualities go under valued. Varane isn't exactly perfect on the ball but he was good enough to win all those CLs due to his exceptional defensive attributes.

So I guess the question our decision makers will be asking is whether this guy can develop into a top 10 CB in the world on the basis of his physical and defensive attributes - within the team concept it's possible for other players to do the playmaking, with a solid base.

I think it changed when people thought the only way to win football-games was to copy Guardiola.
 
The same United scouts have been been helping with the recruitment the last eleven years. They have given us some gems like AWB, Maguire, Antony etc. I won't go back to trusting them so swiftly just because someone has bought the rights to run the football department.

Again, who says that he is one of the most promising CB's in the world at 21? He is doing well in a team that plays park the bus hoofball football under a very negative manager. Maguire also looked good when he played his football at Leicester, who employed similar tactics. Passing numbers never tell the whole story unless verified with the eye test. For example, as you mentioned, Maguire's passing numbers are not bad but he crumbles whenever he is pressured on the ball. To become a team that is good at playing out from the back we need someone is good when pressured and can pass the ball well between the lines. Nothing suggests that Brainthwaite is that guy.

If we want to remain a team that plays back to the wall counter-attacking football then I can understand going for Brainthwaite. However, if our plan is to become a progressive team that is good at keeping and moving the ball then we need someone better.

Its been reported many many many times that our own scouts had been ignored since SAF left. The proof is also in the pudding on that. Do you think that our scouts had grown a fetishness for Eredivisie players the moment ETH entered the door? I also suggest that you start watching him more regularly. He's not another Maguire.
 
I wonder if elite defensive skills (combined with physical attributes) are rarer than ball playing skills today for CBs. There seems to be such a deficit of actually top class defenders (and strikers) today. Perhaps because players are trained so early to be ball players and robust defending is almost vilified - because of some quote Maldini said years ago. There is a risk those qualities go under valued. Varane isn't exactly perfect on the ball but he was good enough to win all those CLs due to his exceptional defensive attributes.

So I guess the question our decision makers will be asking is whether this guy can develop into a top 10 CB in the world on the basis of his physical and defensive attributes - within the team concept it's possible for other players to do the playmaking, with a solid base.
It seems to be undervalued when demonstrated at a young age. Everyone seems to be more bothered about playing out from the back than being an proven, effective defender, at a young age. Also the idea that area is impossible to improve, seems to be an equally strange idea.
 
Ball playing is teachable and improveable quite easily I think. Look at Lewis Dunk stats prior to Potter and De Zerbi. They're way off what he now produces.

It also really depends on the team around you making it possible to produce certain aspects of it too.
 
Ball playing is teachable and improveable quite easily I think. Look at Lewis Dunk stats prior to Potter and De Zerbi. They're way off what he now produces.

It also really depends on the team around you making it possible to produce certain aspects of it too.
Exactly, or Jason Steele in net. No one with a straight face could ever tell me he was ball playing/sweeper keeper before Brighton.

I get it's a lot of money and you don't want to be spending on the hope he might develop into what you want, but that's literally why you pay coaches and scouts. Otherwise you may as well never buy anyone.
 
Need some news today, otherwise it is probably fair to say it isn’t dependent on the 30th June PSR deadline.

Therefore time to move on as we aren’t paying more than £60m including add ons.
 
Ball playing is teachable and improveable quite easily I think. Look at Lewis Dunk stats prior to Potter and De Zerbi. They're way off what he now produces.

It also really depends on the team around you making it possible to produce certain aspects of it too.
As long as you have the raw ability yes
 
Need some news today, otherwise it is probably fair to say it isn’t dependent on the 30th June PSR deadline.

Therefore time to move on as we aren’t paying more than £60m including add ons.
He played for Ruud while on loan in the Netherlands and apparently Ruud was willing to return him to Everton after just six months
 
Its been reported many many many times that our own scouts had been ignored since SAF left. The proof is also in the pudding on that. Do you think that our scouts had grown a fetishness for Eredivisie players the moment ETH entered the door? I also suggest that you start watching him more regularly. He's not another Maguire.
This. The other poster blames the scouts for Antony, when in fact our scouts valued him at 20m and warned against signing him, only to be overruled by the manager!