Jarrad Branthwaite
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
you have a point.That's an interesting way to determine how we should proceed with a target.
Braithwaite may have been considered a wonderkid in 2004, but not in today's world.
I don't. I just don't rate players like media do and don't overvalue them. There is no way he can be worth big, big money. We are not talking about Wayne Rooney level of talent. This is just a normal talent that we should not overpay. He is not better than players we already have in that position.
Come on mate 20 million isn’t realistic in todays market - especially for an English player
If I use Ben White's transfer to Arsenal for £50 million in 2021 as a reference, in today's money it is equivalent to £60m as the cumulative inflation from 2021 to 2024 is 20.04%.
Yes, if you shop in Championship. Palace bought Wharton from Blackburn for £22m. Villa bought Watkins from Brentford for £33m in 2020 (£40.6m in today's money).
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It's funny how there are so many posters on here that act like they have any clue on Branthwaite's potential or how good he could possibly be based on a YouTube video or some twitter highlights saying he will never be good because he is "clumsy" or because he isn't a world class passer. He is already a very good defender in the Premier League at the age of 21. Let's have a look at other very good or world class centre backs that did feck all at Branthwaite's age.
Van Dijk: Played for Groningen in Eredivisie, not a particularly talented or sought after centre back.
Rüdiger: Played for Stuttgart in Bundesliga doing absolute feck all, before being "snapped up" by Roma as no other top club were after him.
Kim Min-jae: Played for Jeonbuk in K League. Don't really need to say more.
Gabriel Magalhaes: Played for Lille, was rated but not close to his current level
Bremer: Played for Torino. Not even top 10 CBs in Serie A at the time. Juventus bought him when he was 25.
Romero: Played for Genoa.
Akanji: Played for Basel. No one really knew of him.
Van de Ven: Played for Wolfsburg.
These are just few examples. You don't need to be a Leny Yoro talent sought after by every top club to have the potential to be a top centre back. If all of these players played in Premier League at 21 and were being linked with us, you would laugh and say these players are clowns who will never be great centre backs - just like you're doing with Branthwaite. And you would be so wrong. Maybe he won't be a fantastic centre back, or maybe he will be amazing. No point pretending you know his potential.
Van Dijk: Played for Groningen in Eredivisie, not a particularly talented or sought after centre back.
Rüdiger: Played for Stuttgart in Bundesliga doing absolute feck all, before being "snapped up" by Roma as no other top club were after him.
Kim Min-jae: Played for Jeonbuk in K League. Don't really need to say more.
Gabriel Magalhaes: Played for Lille, was rated but not close to his current level
Bremer: Played for Torino. Not even top 10 CBs in Serie A at the time. Juventus bought him when he was 25.
Romero: Played for Genoa.
Akanji: Played for Basel. No one really knew of him.
Van de Ven: Played for Wolfsburg.
These are just few examples. You don't need to be a Leny Yoro talent sought after by every top club to have the potential to be a top centre back. If all of these players played in Premier League at 21 and were being linked with us, you would laugh and say these players are clowns who will never be great centre backs - just like you're doing with Branthwaite. And you would be so wrong. Maybe he won't be a fantastic centre back, or maybe he will be amazing. No point pretending you know his potential.
Any significance in his former PSV manager being heavily linked to joining Utd coaching staff
We have already offered them more than that. Not sure what planet you're living on if you consider £15-20m to be a fair price.
Just saw our boy @Raees analysis of him and it worries me about the judgment of the new management under INEOS. Even on first glance based on the clips he looked aggressive and strong in the tackle but very gangly, clumsy and basic on the ball - like an AWB
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McTominay is as good as Rice
Branthwaite is worth no more than 15-20 million.
Are you one of those @horsechoker @rimaldo account?
There is very little chance we will end up signing Branthwaite, United will try to use Branthwaite as a signal to other clubs that we will not go over our set limits (kind of how city does it around 50-60m). Besides Branthwaite doesn't have the required technical ability to be an elite CB, seems to fumble under any serious press, poor touches, can't dribble his way out. Defensively he is quite solid though, probably top 6 PL level but on the ball he's bottom half. I'd take a young Maguire over Jarrad everytime. Not worth the money, way better value to be found elsewhere, INEOS can't start their era with Branthwaite as their 1st signing, I have faith they will do the right thing and pursue other targets. How often do you see a players potential get as hotly debated? that surely has to be a sign.
I agree. They have no real updates and their sources tell them nothing has happened yet, so they just repeat things.
In fairness to them, there are loads of people badgering them for news on Twitter and places like that and call them frauds if there are no updates. So someone or other will be unhappy with them regardless of what they do. As you say, they do get clicks for this stuff so they profit from people's need for news.
The best approach is to just ignore stuff unless it comes from Tier 1 or official sources.
I doubt to this transfer, but it will certainly add another person at the club who will likely be a fan and helpful if we do sign him. Coaches won't have a say in what transfers happen.
Some people forget that the boy is still 21. At his age vidic was fresh from a loan from mighty Spartak Subotica. Rio was still at West ham 2 years away from joining Leeds thus triggering SAF infamous 'Rio is worth less then wes' interview. Van Dijk was still at Groningen.
For the three you mention, I can name you three thousand who stayed at the smaller club or moved lower.
I am waiting for 3k list of names who were as rated as Jarrad and who stayed at a smaller club or moved lower
Seriously don't expect Jarrad to be the compete package at age 21. Its silly. At that age one is buying potential and the correct physical attributes to succeed at top level
Who rates him? English media?
That argument is used for every young player. Although, statistics will tell you it only works out for a very very small percentage of players.
No one expects him to be the complete package. But by that age the glimpses of a players qualities are easily visible. Physical attributes are simply not enough to succeed at a top club. Magurie has the physical attributes and is a much better passer. Still he has never looked like a Manchester United player.
Find this description of an old school defender amusing considering I consider the 90s defender some of the best ever and that is now what I would call old school?
There are always stand out players, but the vast majority of old defenders wouldn't do well today.
Maguire's only ever had half the physical attributes, he's always been slow. I think with Branthwaite his versatility, decent passing, physical attributes and league proven at 21, make him a fantastic prospect. You'll find hard to get all of those in one player.
Excellent in duels, hard to tell how good he is on the ball due to the setup he plays in, and has one year's worth of experience in the Premier League. Why did it take 73 pages of people likening him to Maguire before one where he's compared to Wan-Bissaka?
He's clearly been great for Everton this season and that's why they value him as they do. I don't expect us to value him the same, given that at that price, we'd be hoping he would be at the level of a 5-time Champions League winner, only younger, better on the ball, and more regularly available. I like him but it's way too early in his career to think that he could be that for us.
I know 80% of this forum hates anybody Dutch, but I think we'd probably be better served keeping tabs on Branthwaite over the next year or two while his contract (and subsequently fee) runs down, and going for the 24-year-old with top club experience and a great skill set. If the reports surrounding Branthwaite's wage and De Ligt's availability have any merit, the latter may well work out to be cheaper overall considering the fees, while also being the better player.
I would assume we are waiting to see what happens with Everton and PSR this week. If they can’t sort their issue they may come back to us with a compromise figure. If they shift DCL or someone else then they’ll have the leverage to hold out for the £70m they want.
Aaah that’s why saying unproven was disingenuous. Well done!!
I hope you guys have watched Italy vs Croatia yesterday. The likes of Calafiori, Bastoni, Gvardiol or Sutalo showed how important it is for modern CBs to be good at passing and build up play. Both teams had their pressing phases and the CBs kept cool and played out of the back which impressed me. They are so good technically that they can easily play as FBs too (Gvardiol, Calafiori). Branthwaite is great at defending but his technical flaws will never justify his high fee. Sure at 21 there is plenty of potential to grow, but I haven't seen a player who had such a huge development in the technical area that Branthwaite needs to become a top 4 starting CB (which should be our aim in the next years). If we wanna compete for the top 7, sure he'd be a great long term player.
We need to get the right players in - I don't care if we overpay £5 or 10 million as long as we get the right players in. People complain about us paying £80 million for Maguire - but £75 million for VVD was considered a steal. The problem isn't the price we spent - the problem was that it was Maguire we spent it on. If Ratcliffe, Wilcox and ETH all are convinced Branthwaite is the right player - I would much rather we spent £60 million on him - than £45 million on a 5th choice - simply because he was cheaper
Everton will never stand firm on £70 million - if Branthwaite tells them he wants to leave, they will drop their demands. Maybe not much but if we offer £47-48 million + 7-8 million in realistic add-ons - I think we could be close to getting a yes from Everton - IF Branthwaite tells them he wants to go
Let me ask you this - do you think VVD is great at playing out from the back ? I agree it is a huge bonus - but I would rather have a guy who is 6'5 and very quick - which allows us to keep a high line. Which we never could do with Maguire.
VVD is awesome at playing out from the back, his passing range is excellent too.
I wonder how many times have people who are critizing his passing seen him play? Same with going to the ground easily.
It seems to me that majority of the people have seen the City and Chelsea games, or the highlights vs. Haaland and Palmer and made up their minds.
I think he's an already excellent player with a potential to become a great one. 60M is a fair price.
It seems to me that majority of the people have seen the City and Chelsea games, or the highlights vs. Haaland and Palmer and made up their minds.
I think he's an already excellent player with a potential to become a great one. 60M is a fair price.
We have limited funds and he's not the right player.
Thats NOT happening. We want £70m (prob more). Why would we drop the price?
Did we with Lukaku? Stones? Lescott?
Newcastle backed off from DCL yesterday because we refused to drop our £40m price and he only has 1 year left on his deal
If we can’t tell then we should probably steer clear. A CB who has composure and class on the ball stands out. Martinez’ ability in this regard shows whether we finish 3rd or 8th. We are not Everton and not every defender just equal Martinez in that regard but we need to tighten our recruitment rather than getting over excited and overpaying. No harm in waiting it out on this player if we aren’t sure of his quality.
I’ve never said this before about his video analysis and I hope I never have to again but I found this one biased, like he was letting his preconceptions affect his analysis. I wasn’t the only person to call it out. So, look at the data, use your eyes, read what Everton fans are saying and make your own decision
There's the new owner coming in and that could impact things in addition to sales. I assume the wait is to put in a bid closer to the PSR deadline so that Everton's options are limited in case they aren't able to sell other players and the new owner cannot bail them out in time. Just my view regarding the timing of it all.
He did play for PSV and Blackburn so you could watch those games
In what areas would you say he's excellent?
He seems to be really impressive when it comes to tackles, blocks, aerial duals and clearances - but his passing and on-the-ball stats are worrying.
Compared to other CBs over the past year:
- 3rd percentile in progressive carries
- 10th percentile in attempted passes
- 13th percentile in progressive passes
- 15th percentile in pass completion
That's dire. I'm not sure how you reconcile that with the idea that he might be a good passer.
Unless the above stats over the past year are night and day when compared to his time at PSV?
There's an argument to be said that its due to Dyche's tactics, but look at Tarkowski's stats over the past year:
- 29th percentile in progressive carries
- 12th percentile in attempted passes
- 49th percentile in progressive passes
- 7th percentile in pass completion
Not great, but noticeably better. And I don't think Tarkowski himself has any kind of reputation for his passing ability.
We constantly attempt to pass out from the back despite having players who are largely incapable of doing so. Signing Branthwaite looks like it would mark a continuation of that non-sensical approach.
As I said - it requires that Branthwaite goes and says that he wants to leave. If he doesn't - then you are fine with that approach.
That still wouldn't work. He has a long contract. Stones handed a request in, it made no difference. We rejected it and he stayed for the season.
Every season you get supporters from a selling club acting all billy big bollocks about not selling and United fans acting the same about getting the player in the end. Everyone's a loser in this
He is pretty good at it.