Jarrad Branthwaite

Nogho said:
Is it just me, or has the British media decided that United will pursue a British core, and all successful players from other teams are "on the list"? Toney, Branthwaite, etc.

That, combined with players from Nice and other teams in the French league, is all because of the "knowledge" gained from years as owners of Nice.

So, first, it was Ten Hag's players for two years, and now it's Ineos's players.

I feel so sorry for the scouting department at United if the media's views are correct.

My view on Branthwaite is that he is just an average British defender with potential. I do think that our own Kambwala is at the same level.
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So buying British players is not good, because they're "overpriced" and "overrated", buying from France is only because of their Nice ownership, buying from the Netherlands is only because ETH, buying from the Bundesliga is bad, because "those players rarely work out", buying from Italy is bad, because Kim Min-jae has struggled in his first Bayern season, buying from Portugal is bad, because of Núnez, Ramos and Enzo Fernandez, etc...

You can find some silly, made-up excuse for literally any arrival from the top 7 leagues...and if we buy from a weaker league, well then they were playing against part-time footballers!
 
Rojofiam said:
Martínez would be unbelievable in that Zinchenko/Aké type of LB role, don't worry about that. That's why Arteta wanted him originally at Arsenal. It's not a traditional left back role, as he would often find himself in the middle of the pitch in an inverted position (like how Dalot steps into central positions all the time), as well as regularly take up a CB position mid-game...but he can often start LCB as well, like he has for these two seasons he's been at the club.
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Get you now, didn’t really think it through!

Thanks for taking the time to expand on
 
TheReligion said:
Onana isn’t home grown though.
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Yep. Unless Arsenal are up for overpaying he won't move the needle a ton because he has a fair bit of amoritization left. I don't know about the takeover either, Friedkin should not have any trouble getting approval based on his existing ownership of Roma so he may be in situ before the window closes and able to help balance the books. I would not look at Friedkin as a saviour though, he has been very stingy with his own money at Roma and is not well liked by their supporters.
 
Herman Toothrot said:
It's just you. You're talking pure shite if you even entertain the idea that our scouts haven't spotted and recommended one of the mostly highly rated defenders in world.
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I was just trying to empathise with the scouts if it was first Ten Hag choosing players and now the Ineos football group.

It felt like people were mocking the fact that none of the players bought in recent years had been scouted, but were recruited on other grounds.

In this case, they have probably identified him as an excellent signing.
 
Rojofiam said:
So buying British players is not good, because they're "overpriced" and "overrated", buying from France is only because of their Nice ownership, buying from the Netherlands is only because ETH, buying from the Bundesliga is bad, because "those players rarely work out", buying from Italy is bad, because Kim Min-jae has struggled in his first Bayern season, buying from Portugal is bad, because of Núnez, Ramos and Enzo Fernandez, etc...

You can find some silly, made-up excuse for literally any arrival from the top 7 leagues...and if we buy from a weaker league, well then they were playing against part-time footballers!
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Same answer as earlier in this thread.

I was just trying to empathise with the scouts if it was first Ten Hag choosing players and now the Ineos football group.

It felt like people were mocking the fact that none of the players bought in recent years had been scouted, but were recruited on other grounds.

In this case, they have probably identified him as an excellent signing.
 
grandoldqueen said:
Never signed up to a rival forum before out of respect but reading some of the brain dead takes on Twitter and bashing my head against a wall talking to someone called ‘Anthonysleftthigh’, I’m here to give my 2 cents instead.

The minimum asking price is genuine market value. Fofana, Chilwell, Maguire all went for circa £70/80 million - you don’t get to complain about market rates when you directly contributed to skewing it. If anything, £60 million is slightly under value considering the profile of the player. If Southgate wasn’t a colossal -insert horrific insult of your choice here-, then he’d be with the England squad right now.

He is one of Everton’s most valuable assets and utterly integral to the defence. Was instrumental in keeping us up. He is also a major asset for any prospective owner and could affect those negotiations. Selling him could legitimately have an adverse effect on new owners bidding if the squad is seen to be being stripped. Also the financial situation isn’t as bad as being made out by the media desperate to hound middle clubs (and ignore the bigger ones). If anything, we’re preparing to sell Onana for a price that will comfortably cover us for this season. There is no desperation to sell Branthwaite.

To the ‘never watched him play a game in my life’ crew who are suddenly experts after the highlight videos (not a criticism, we do it plenty in our forum too), I cannot overstate how good this guy is. He clears how good Stones was at his age, and he went for £50mil before the market went bonkers. None of it makes it to the highlight videos but he can very much carry the ball into midfield when given license to, he’s not an exclusively ‘backs to the wall defender’. Genuinely left footed and a physical freak. Exceptional injury record too, can’t remember last game he missed that was a 10 card suspension. You’re getting your starting defender for the next 10 years here and ripping out one of the major pieces of our team, just remember that when it comes to the ‘ridiculous’ valuation.

I’m sure there are excellent alternatives that may end up being better or cheaper, but that’s for your scouting department to figure out. I can only wish them the best of luck as it’s one of the hardest jobs in football.

Anyway, that’s one of my 3 posts a day so sadly can’t engage with arguments with anyone. Am here purely with the intent to give a different perspective. On a very unrelated note, I was thrilled to see Mainoo called up to the England squad.
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Cheers. We are not all cnuts, we just have a lot of fans.
 
Whatever peoples thoughts regards Branthwaite, it bodes well to see us being on the ball and puttings bids in on 1st day of the window.

Hopefully means they've identified their targets and are ready to get business sorted as early as possible.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I'm not sure why people are responding to @grandoldqueen as if he's the one setting the price or the market.
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I think people are responding to comments like these:

grandoldqueen said:
The minimum asking price is genuine market value. Fofana, Chilwell, Maguire all went for circa £70/80 million - you don’t get to complain about market rates when you directly contributed to skewing it. If anything, £60 million is slightly under value considering the profile of the player. If Southgate wasn’t a colossal -insert horrific insult of your choice here-, then he’d be with the England squad right now.
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grandoldqueen said:
No, the value is what is set by the selling club.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting he is responsible for setting the price.
 
Nogho said:
Same answer as earlier in this thread.

I was just trying to empathise with the scouts if it was first Ten Hag choosing players and now the Ineos football group.

It felt like people were mocking the fact that none of the players bought in recent years had been scouted, but were recruited on other grounds.

In this case, they have probably identified him as an excellent signing.
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Ratcliffe is installing people like Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth in important positions, to run the club and make the footballing decisions instead of him. None of these guys worked for OGC Nice. I'm personally not too worried about the scouting department's recommendations getting ignored, like they have been in the past, as it's clear that they're very good at their job, which is finding the right players and accurately evaluating them. And if I had to guess, I would be very confident that they rate both Branthwaite and Yoro very highly.

Regarding the part where you say none of our recent signings were scouted by the club, well, I have to disagree.

Hojlund definitely was a recommendation from the scouting department rather than a player ten Hag just randomly kept tabs on, as he was a pretty unknown striker, playing in Denmark and Austria when ETH was nearing the end of his Ajax tenure.

Casemiro was also someone the club (wrongly) recommended to ETH, who okayed the transfer.

And it's not like we weren't aware of players like Malacia, Martínez, Onana, and basically everyone we eventually ended up signing. A club like United will be aware of almost every half-decent player from the top 5-7 leagues, it's just that they weren't first choices or even close to being serious options before ETH.

Antony was valued at £25m by our scouts, and we weren't gonna pay Ajax's asking price before the Glazers panicked and got involved in our transfers after the opening two defeats vs Brighton and Brentford.

Martínez was a player the club were very much aware of, but it was ten Hag who chose him ahead of Alessandro Bastoni, Pau Torres and Josko Gvardiol.

Onana was one of the best options for that technical goalkeeper role, with probably (I'm just making an educated guess here) Diogo Costa and Unai Simón as two other viable options.

I recommend reading some Athletic articles that provide some insight into what has been going on behind the scenes regarding our recruitment, and other stuff as well, like this one or this one. They are pretty infuriating reads but the positive takeaway from them is that even just a half-decent owner will be able to put us into a much better situation which will be night and day compared to the incompetence present under the Glazers.
 
All of the non United suporters shaming the 35m bid are very transparently pissed that United are finally operating with some common sense and refusing to enthusiastically part with massive sums of money at the drop of a hat.

Just because clubs in the past, United included, have questionably spent eye watering sums on questionable purchases in the past doesn’t mean they should be told “you’re going to pay inflated and unrealistic valuations and you’re going to like it.”

United most likely have considered Everton’s valuation as 15-20m more than they arguably should, and in turn have bid 15-20m less than he should reasonably be sold for. That’s just how negotiations work. Would not be surprised to see this get done at something like 50m + 5m in add ons.
 
RobbieBerns said:
All of the non United suporters shaming the 35m bid are very transparently pissed that United are finally operating with some common sense and refusing to enthusiastically part with massive sums of money at the drop of a hat.

Just because clubs in the past, United included, have questionably spent eye watering sums on questionable purchases in the past doesn’t mean they should be told “you’re going to pay inflated and unrealistic valuations and you’re going to like it.”

United most likely have considered Everton’s valuation as 15-20m more than they arguably should, and in turn have bid 15-20m less than he should reasonably be sold for. That’s just how negotiations work. Would not be surprised to see this get done at something like 50m + 5m in add ons.
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My guess is Utd can't agree a fee with Everton. Brathwaite, just like Olise last summer, will renew his contract with Everton, and Utd then buy de Ligt from Bayern.
 
diarm said:
I think people are responding to comments like these:





I don't think anyone is suggesting he is responsible for setting the price.
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He's saying 'the market price is what it is'. Others are countering saying 'previous prices are overpaid, not reflecting of their quality, Everton is asking too much'. I don't disagree with either but both can also be true.

Don't get me wrong, if we shell out close to £70m+ then it would be disappointing because I don't think we have the money to fill other areas.

I think £60m would be 'okay' business. Anything below that would be 'good'. Anything above would be 'it is what it is'. At least I can take comfort that I think he's worth more to us as a £70m transfer than a £55m Mount as he fills some very important needs.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
My guess is Utd can't agree a fee with Everton. Brathwaite, just like Olise last summer, will renew his contract with Everton, and Utd then buy de Ligt from Bayern.
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I don't think Everton can afford not to sell Brathwaite, the best they can hope for is that Chlesea do their usual and come bumbling in and think they're been clever by overpaying for other teams longterm targets.
 
Rojofiam said:
Ratcliffe is installing people like Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth in important positions, to run the club and make the footballing decisions instead of him. None of these guys worked for OGC Nice. I'm personally not too worried about the scouting department's recommendations getting ignored, like they have been in the past, as it's clear that they're very good at their job, which is finding the right players and accurately evaluating them. And if I had to guess, I would be very confident that they rate both Branthwaite and Yoro very highly.

Regarding the part where you say none of our recent signings were scouted by the club, well, I have to disagree.

Hojlund definitely was a recommendation from the scouting department rather than a player ten Hag just randomly kept tabs on, as he was a pretty unknown striker, playing in Denmark and Austria when ETH was nearing the end of his Ajax tenure.

Casemiro was also someone the club (wrongly) recommended to ETH, who okayed the transfer.

And it's not like we weren't aware of players like Malacia, Martínez, Onana, and basically everyone we eventually ended up signing. A club like United will be aware of almost every half-decent player from the top 5-7 leagues, it's just that they weren't first choices or even close to being serious options before ETH.

Antony was valued at £25m by our scouts, and we weren't gonna pay Ajax's asking price before the Glazers panicked and got involved in our transfers after the opening two defeats vs Brighton and Brentford.

Martínez was a player the club were very much aware of, but it was ten Hag who chose him ahead of Alessandro Bastoni, Pau Torres and Josko Gvardiol.

Onana was one of the best options for that technical goalkeeper role, with probably (I'm just making an educated guess here) Diogo Costa and Unai Simón as two other viable options.

I recommend reading some Athletic articles that provide some insight into what has been going on behind the scenes regarding our recruitment, and other stuff as well, like this one or this one. They are pretty infuriating reads but the positive takeaway from them is that even just a half-decent owner will be able to put us into a much better situation which will be night and day compared to the incompetence present under the Glazers.
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Great post.

The biggest difference can only come from the ownership and no matter what anyone says, INEOS cannot be as bad the Glazers who were were absolutely awful. The way they screwed the summer transfer window of 2022 after back to back defeats to Brighton and Brentford was another low for the club as far as I'm concerned. The transfer budget for that transfer window was £120m, only for the Glazers to throw an extra €100m into the pot with a few weeks of the window remaining. All this was reported in The Athletic at the time.
 
£35 million opening is fine, Everton not feeling the £8 million in bonuses are realistic is the main thing. They were never going to accept £35 million up front and probably not an amount close to that, but if they had accepted the £8 million in bonuses making the deal worth £43 million then that would have been success even if they wanted say £40-45 million up front with it.

Now we need to reconfigure the bonuses to help make the overall fee more reasonable with targets Everton think we can achieve else they wont be having it. So we're at step 1... Another 3 or 4 steps to go
 
Seems to me a bid to open up negotiations because theres no way Everton would accept that (understandably).
 
With FFP affecting all clubs (except Chelsea and City of course) I can see transfer values coming down a bit, which is needed for the market. Prices have got ridiculous.

Anywhere north of £50m the club has to walk away. We have to be sensible with the much tighter budget we have this year. He is a promising English player but that doesn’t guarantee he’s a successful signing. There is also argument we need a RCB not LCB.
 
Josep Dowling said:
With FFP affecting all clubs (except Chelsea and City of course) I can see transfer values coming down a bit, which is needed for the market. Prices have got ridiculous.

Anywhere north of £50m the club has to walk away. We have to be sensible with the much tighter budget we have this year. He is a promising English player but that doesn’t guarantee he’s a successful signing. There is also argument we need a RCB not LCB.
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He is right footed but very strong with his left
 
Adnan said:
Great post.

The biggest difference can only come from the ownership and no matter what anyone says, INEOS cannot be as bad the Glazers who were were absolutely awful. The way they screwed the summer transfer window of 2022 after back to back defeats to Brighton and Brentford was another low for the club as far as I'm concerned. The transfer budget for that transfer window was £120m, only for the Glazers to throw an extra €100m into the pot with a few weeks of the window remaining. All this was reported in The Athletic at the time.
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I agree.

The most frustrating bit of info for me was that getting Casemiro basically meant giving up on both Rice and Kane, and we still went ahead with the signing :lol:
 
Rojofiam said:
So buying British players is not good, because they're "overpriced" and "overrated", buying from France is only because of their Nice ownership, buying from the Netherlands is only because ETH, buying from the Bundesliga is bad, because "those players rarely work out", buying from Italy is bad, because Kim Min-jae has struggled in his first Bayern season, buying from Portugal is bad, because of Núnez, Ramos and Enzo Fernandez, etc...

You can find some silly, made-up excuse for literally any arrival from the top 7 leagues...and if we buy from a weaker league, well then they were playing against part-time footballers!
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All of that. Yes. I think it's called "High Standards" or somesuch... :lol:
 
Why is it even released that we offered any sum? Every other team just announces signings because the bargaining is done in private. Why does anyone need to know the sum they wanted, what we offered, what they countered with, etc.? Why is this still being leaked? Is it being leaked or is it made up?
 
atkar83 said:
Why is it even released that we offered any sum? Every other team just announces signings because the bargaining is done in private. Why does anyone need to know the sum they wanted, what we offered, what they countered with, etc.? Why is this still being leaked? Is it being leaked or is it made up?
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If it's David Ornstein or someone else from The Athletic, that's as reliable as it gets and true 99% of the time.
 
No intention of being ripped off again, I like this approach. We used to bully teams into selling players in the past, the last ten years we've just paid well over the odds.

45 million plus add ons is my predicted final transfer fee. Everton can't ask for much more given his lack of exposure this summer.

Thank you Mr Southgate.
 
Now that's what I like to hear. If we can't keep it below 70 walk away.
 
How much do Everton need to raise in funds by the end of the month to clear FFP?

If Arsenal are now interested in Onana and willing to bid around the speculated £50m, then they may not be so desperate for cash and less likely to negotiate down on Branthwaite.
 
Need to walk away…..much better value in France at half the price…

Unfortunately our previous record in the market under Woody is never going to leave us and our reputation…..

Only if Everton truely believe they are losing out and they are desperate because of PSR will they try and renegotiate

We must stand firm
 
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