Maybe we know Martinez cannot handle 38 games a season plus cup competitions and want a backup plan, one that can occasionally fill the void on the other side of defense as well. We could also start using Martinez at LB whenever Shaw is out too (which won’t be rare). I’m sure even if Branthwaite cannot be a starter at RCB he would still get plenty of time.
Jarrad Branthwaite
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Seems on this forum, if you are tall, English and plays at centre back, then you are automatically slow.
I want to cry. He is the opposite of what I am seeing on this forum. He is agile, very quick to get across to make blocks and tackles, and is a presence in the box and set pieces. On the ball, he is very composed, can pick a long ball, and passes well between the lines with both feet. The quality is evident when you watch him play.This thread is painful.
I don't know where the idea that he is slow and not good enough on the ball is coming from. Is it because he is tall, or because he is English? I don't see anyone saying that Martinez is slow, but Branthwaite covers ground quicker than he does.
Sounds about right. Just hope we don’t go through the same process we’ve always done where we triple players wages before they’ve even kicked a ball for us. Offer them a bit more than their currently on by all means but we don’t have to go over the top. They have to earn it first.
Thanks. Also i checked Everton forum, general feeling is, he is or he will be Madrid good. Do you rate him so highly?
Mental that journos are giving this the time of day. Who is leaking the above? Surely it's not from uniteds side. Must be his agent.
I'm sure right now we are talking to lots of CBs. We most likely need two anyway but I would think INEOS would be doing standard "purchase funnel" due dilligence over every player on their whiteboard at Carrington, unlike Murtough who seemed to only pursue one target.
That said, it could all end up in the same mess as usual where we over pay for the wrong players when we get scared in the 2nd week of the season with the player getting no benefits from preseason.
I'm sure right now we are talking to lots of CBs. We most likely need two anyway but I would think INEOS would be doing standard "purchase funnel" due dilligence over every player on their whiteboard at Carrington, unlike Murtough who seemed to only pursue one target.
That said, it could all end up in the same mess as usual where we over pay for the wrong players when we get scared in the 2nd week of the season with the player getting no benefits from preseason.
Ducker is a very strong Utd source though
It's not so much about the club he's played at more that he's had one season in the PL and some time in Holland and it's not as if he's shown he's a generational talent. He's shown he's a good CB with potential. Basically because he's young, English and people are bigging him up all of a sudden he's worth £80million. There are better options that will cost much less.
This is going to be a game of chicken.
Everton need to raise funds for PSR.
They will not have a new buyer in place before end of June.
Trying to panic Utd to pay a higher fee - expect others to enter the race imminently…..possibly City or Chelsea as that normally works….
Let’s see what we’ve learnt…..£50m tops for Branthwaite or go elsewhere.
Everton need to raise funds for PSR.
They will not have a new buyer in place before end of June.
Trying to panic Utd to pay a higher fee - expect others to enter the race imminently…..possibly City or Chelsea as that normally works….
Let’s see what we’ve learnt…..£50m tops for Branthwaite or go elsewhere.
We'll get it done for £53m
The only thing I remember seeing him doing was nearly scoring goal of the century and then immediately afterwards scoring an own goal
Albeit shows my lack of MoTD watching last year.
He tries to cover all bases doesn't he
Zirkzee will stay in Italy and join AC from what I have read and that makes a lot more sense to me.
How does a club agree personal terms with another club's player under contract when no terms have been agreed between the two clubs?
I always thought rules had been put in place to stop that happening.
Ferdinand had just had an excellent World Cup and was already considered one of the world’s best defenders. What a bizarre comparison.
We also only doubled his salary, which was reasonable given his improvements since he had signed for Leeds. You can’t adjust his wage with us for inflation and not the Leeds one and then claim it quadrupled.
No I don't. He's good but not that good.
At times last season he looked his age (Chelsea and city away).
No chance you get him for £50m either
He tries to cover all bases doesn't he
Zirkzee will stay in Italy and join AC from what I have read and that makes a lot more sense to me.
How does a club agree personal terms with another club's player under contract when no terms have been agreed between the two clubs?
I always thought rules had been put in place to stop that happening.
Clubs who are willing to sell and are negotiating a price can give permission to discuss terms. Presume that’s what has happened here.
All this doubled, tripled his wages misses the point. So let's say we sign a CB who is already on 300k and we give him 450k, will you guys be okay saying we gave only 50% hike?
Player we sign will be given contract as per the squad standards. If we are signing him for first team, then he will be paid like a ManUtd first team player. That's how it works.
I would have thought it would have been out in public if Everton were prepared to listen for offers for one of their players then.
Not long ago that was announced by us regarding Rashford if we are prepared to believe it.
As always it depends on how managers and clubs utilise a player but I see no reason why he cannot be a player that's capable of being in a title challenging/winning side.
I saw this was the general feel, that he can play for Madrid, City. He is that good.
Good to see we are going after very highly rated player then, tall, quick, strong in air and duels, can pass with both feet.
I think everything Ducker is saying there is spot on.He tries to cover all bases doesn't he
Zirkzee will stay in Italy and join AC from what I have read and that makes a lot more sense to me.
How does a club agree personal terms with another club's player under contract when no terms have been agreed between the two clubs?
I always thought rules had been put in place to stop that happening.
Teams always agree personal terms with the player first. It's pointless wasting time trying to agree a fee with the club, if you don't have any indication that the player is willing to join. It will all have been agreed with the player via agents/intermediaries.
But what if the club are not prepared to sell?
Theoretically then any club can approach any player and agree terms without informing the parent club and I always thought there were rules in place to stop that.
Of course it would be different if Everton had made it well known they were open to offers regarding their player but have you seen that reported anywhere?
Unless you let Ten Hag direct the transfer policy and waste an entire summer on FDJ.
Would love him here, but with recent precedent of CBs going for huge fees it'll be tough to convince Everton to sell at a price we are happy with.
Are their financials still a mess/will they need to sell?
Are their financials still a mess/will they need to sell?
£50m + performance bonuses seems about right
Great talent but still raw.
Great talent but still raw.
Clubs often like to present themselves as unwilling to sell as a tactic to extract maximum value. It has been reported that Everton don't want to sell Branthwaite. I'm sure in an ideal world they don't, but that isn't the same as won't.
You're right, tapping up isn't allowed. Make no mistake though, it's been happening since the beginning of time. You just need to be smart and respectful about it - unlike what happened with Liverpool and Van Dijk. Everton will know that United have got indication of Branthwaite's willingness to join them. It's even possible that privately they have allowed Branthwaite permission to talk to us prior to a fee being agreed.
I don't think we need to get hung up about the wages being discussed, it's high but if it's tied to appearances it's probably ok.
We've taken something like 340k a week off the wage bill with Varane as one of the highest paid defenders in the world, we should be looking to use this money on 3 new first team players who are fit and contribute. 100k+ a week for him doesn't scare me. There's also huge.savings from Martials wages (and hopefully Casemiro's)
We've taken something like 340k a week off the wage bill with Varane as one of the highest paid defenders in the world, we should be looking to use this money on 3 new first team players who are fit and contribute. 100k+ a week for him doesn't scare me. There's also huge.savings from Martials wages (and hopefully Casemiro's)
I am sure he'll get plenty of time, and United being out of central defenders at some point of the season was legendary even during SAF's last few seasons. However, the fee and wages we are talking about here is for a starter and not someone who can get time. That's why I was asking @SilentWitness if he is similarly proficient at RCB as Martinez will start for ETH at LCB whenever fit. Unless, ETH has decided to use Martinez as an inverted LB next season.
I think it'd be interesting to see how many defensive buys we make for next season. If we are going for two CB's, then it is quite possible that the plan is for Martinez to play LB. If we buy Braintwaite and a LB, then I am unsure of the plan.
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He's only played as a LCB for us but I don't see why he can't play as RCB due to his ambipedal nature + his overall ability. He also played at times for PSV as a RCB.
I too, if he does join you, am interested how you utilise him.
I've been thinking about the whole British tax thing.
Firstly, you need British players for the homegrown quota. You can also argue you need some players who understand the culture of a club and the league, which is usually but not always British, but that's debatable and whilst can be advantage isn't necessary. So, you objectively need British players in the squad, that's not disputable.
The question then is one of price. Normally, I don't really care. Its not my money. United have loads of it. Spending 40m or 80m doesn't really matter in the long run - what matters is if the player can establish themselves as a quality first team player. If they do, the value gained from the transfer would well exceed even the higher fee. If they don't, then the value gained doesn't even exceed the lower fee.
In a squad aiming for trophies, you need competition for places. And i think this is the issue. Because players like AWB and Maguire came with big transfer fees compared to their competition, they tend to get given more playing time in the hope they come good. Although, you could argue Sancho didn't get the same, and Antony who wasn't British did. But in general I think it's fair to say British players cost more, and then become more likely to get additional minutes as a result. Ultimately, if they don't prove themselves to be guaranteed first team players, they become expensive squad players, which brings media scrutiny, and a very expensive asset sat on the bench who is difficult to sell on because they're on good wages and mid table sides can't afford to spend the same fee United paid in the first place. If it was a foreign player for 2/3rds the transfer fee this issue is mitigated a fair bit.
So, I think some people have some justification in opposing these signings. We've had some let downs in recent years, but also, it would seem perhaps a better solution would be to fill the homegrown quota with academy players and cheaper punts - players with less time on their contract, or players from low PL sides or from the Championship, in recent years like Robertson, Maguire (to Leicester), Bowen, Watkins, Eze, Wharton etc who would cost 1/3rd the price or so, and can challenge for a squad role but its less costly if they don't become a first XI player. With big money signings reserved for top level when they become available (Bellingham, Grealish, what people expected of Sancho).
However it's not that clear cut. City signed some cheap British squad players like Delph, Phillips, with mixed success, but they also spent big on Stones and Walker. Stones at the time was far from a guaranteed success, he was still raw. And for every Eze or Wharton or Robertson, there are 5 cheap signings who do either poorly or just okay. The fees have become increasingly insane in recent years for even players with good potential but far from sure fire bets, British or not.
I think the negativity towards this signing is partly justified. However, it's partly just based in fear - fear of repeating our mistakes with the likes of AWB and Maguire. Ultimately, Branthwaite is not AWB or Maguire, and it needs to be judged on individual merit. If he became a starting CB in a successful side, the price tag would be more than justified. If he spends years in and out of the side and not meeting expectations, it is costly. If an equivalent could be bought for £20m less - then what? Do we sign one extra £20m player - but squad size isn't really an issue. So, do we spend the extra £20m to buy, let's say, an £80m midfielder instead of a £60m midfielder in order to get the best available? But then, are we even in a position to get the best player available, or will they be choosing the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal Madrid over us anyway?
There's so many variables, I don't think it's possible to have a strong opinion at this stage. Most people will have some level of hope, some level of trepidation, some other perfect preference or vision of how it unfolds. But nobody knows. Not the best managers, scouts, DoFs, chief execs, and certainly not the average fan.
Whatever, just some ramblings whilst I have my morning coffee.
Firstly, you need British players for the homegrown quota. You can also argue you need some players who understand the culture of a club and the league, which is usually but not always British, but that's debatable and whilst can be advantage isn't necessary. So, you objectively need British players in the squad, that's not disputable.
The question then is one of price. Normally, I don't really care. Its not my money. United have loads of it. Spending 40m or 80m doesn't really matter in the long run - what matters is if the player can establish themselves as a quality first team player. If they do, the value gained from the transfer would well exceed even the higher fee. If they don't, then the value gained doesn't even exceed the lower fee.
In a squad aiming for trophies, you need competition for places. And i think this is the issue. Because players like AWB and Maguire came with big transfer fees compared to their competition, they tend to get given more playing time in the hope they come good. Although, you could argue Sancho didn't get the same, and Antony who wasn't British did. But in general I think it's fair to say British players cost more, and then become more likely to get additional minutes as a result. Ultimately, if they don't prove themselves to be guaranteed first team players, they become expensive squad players, which brings media scrutiny, and a very expensive asset sat on the bench who is difficult to sell on because they're on good wages and mid table sides can't afford to spend the same fee United paid in the first place. If it was a foreign player for 2/3rds the transfer fee this issue is mitigated a fair bit.
So, I think some people have some justification in opposing these signings. We've had some let downs in recent years, but also, it would seem perhaps a better solution would be to fill the homegrown quota with academy players and cheaper punts - players with less time on their contract, or players from low PL sides or from the Championship, in recent years like Robertson, Maguire (to Leicester), Bowen, Watkins, Eze, Wharton etc who would cost 1/3rd the price or so, and can challenge for a squad role but its less costly if they don't become a first XI player. With big money signings reserved for top level when they become available (Bellingham, Grealish, what people expected of Sancho).
However it's not that clear cut. City signed some cheap British squad players like Delph, Phillips, with mixed success, but they also spent big on Stones and Walker. Stones at the time was far from a guaranteed success, he was still raw. And for every Eze or Wharton or Robertson, there are 5 cheap signings who do either poorly or just okay. The fees have become increasingly insane in recent years for even players with good potential but far from sure fire bets, British or not.
I think the negativity towards this signing is partly justified. However, it's partly just based in fear - fear of repeating our mistakes with the likes of AWB and Maguire. Ultimately, Branthwaite is not AWB or Maguire, and it needs to be judged on individual merit. If he became a starting CB in a successful side, the price tag would be more than justified. If he spends years in and out of the side and not meeting expectations, it is costly. If an equivalent could be bought for £20m less - then what? Do we sign one extra £20m player - but squad size isn't really an issue. So, do we spend the extra £20m to buy, let's say, an £80m midfielder instead of a £60m midfielder in order to get the best available? But then, are we even in a position to get the best player available, or will they be choosing the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal Madrid over us anyway?
There's so many variables, I don't think it's possible to have a strong opinion at this stage. Most people will have some level of hope, some level of trepidation, some other perfect preference or vision of how it unfolds. But nobody knows. Not the best managers, scouts, DoFs, chief execs, and certainly not the average fan.
Whatever, just some ramblings whilst I have my morning coffee.
Of course, hence it was speculative. Although feasible I think.
You were certainly interested in Hannibal just a few months ago though.
As somebody who has watched him more than us, what are your thoughts on the player? Please direct me to a post if you have already answered but what do you think his ceiling is? He seems adept with the ball at his feet, tall and good tackler, is he particularly quick? What are his weaknesses would you say? Interested to hear your insight.
I’m actually of the view that Maguire should probably stay now. We can’t just have a bunch of teenagers and no senior pros. Most of our senior pros are very useless, so Maguire at 30 is probably one worth having around.
Probably right.
I suppose if Everton didn't want to sell the other party would be reported for tapping up.
He looks good though and I just hope we don't get taken to the cleaners over the deal.
70m??
Yeh, jog on son
Yeh, jog on son
When the likes of Todibo and Yoro are available at 35-40m it doesn't seem like a good business. Looks Brexity.
I think ideally we want to pay £50m. Everton reportedly want £70m or £80m depending on who you believe. I think we'll be prepared to go to £50/55m with add ons taking it to £60m. I don't see us going any higher than that, so it's all about whether Everton are willing to negotiate.
I can see the Hojlund scenario all over again.
Spending 50m on him let alone 70-80m when we have limited money to spend would be absurdly stupid and would show the new regime is no better than the previous one. I hope Everton stand firm and this doesn't happen.