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2021-22 Performances

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Idxomer said:
That's your midfield signing.
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Do you not want us to promote youth then? I'd genuinely be more than happy for Garner, Mejbri to be our midfield "signings" and get someone like Kamara in for the DM spot.
 
Lash said:
Do you not want us to promote youth then? I'd genuinely be more than happy for Garner, Mejbri to be our midfield "signings" and get someone like Kamara in for the DM spot.
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He could be a backup but the team needs a midfielder who would slot in right away and improve that area. I don't see that yet with either Garner or Hannibal.
 
Idxomer said:
He could be a backup but the team needs a midfielder who would slot in right away and improve that area. I don't see that yet with either Garner or Hannibal.
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The base line is:

Mctominay - who works very hard and is a physical presence in there. No real stand out attributes.
Fred - works very hard, presses well, can dribble quite well too, but lacks physical presence.
Matic - Best sheilding, passing and positioning midfielder we have, but massively vunerable on the counter attack.

Garner is a better passer than Fred and McTominay, I think his set piece delivery gets him in the team alone. Physically he's improving, but he can only improve to the level of Premier league player by playing. He was fine against Premier league opposition against one of the best teams in the country.
 
Idxomer said:
He could be a backup but the team needs a midfielder who would slot in right away and improve that area. I don't see that yet with either Garner or Hannibal.
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They should definitely have a route to be part of the team though! I would continue to loan out Garner and send Hannibal out on loan, they both need a main league loan more importantly (same with Amad and Laird for that matter). Obviously we need a DM, but if we look at 23/24, we could well have a midfield group of Kamara (on a free this summer), Fred (the 8), Bruno (the 10), and then McTominay, Garner and Hannibal as the backup 3, provided Garner and Hannibal show the potential and progress enough. A lot also depends on the coach that comes in, what he wants to do, and if Garner/Hannibal actually have the potential and can reach that level in a years time, but it's what we should look for IMO.

Saying all that... I don't actually think Garner has enough potential to actually make it here past squad player level, what my gut instinct says whenever I see him. He has talent and is stylistically the right type (a passer who is steady defensively and positionally), but just not high enough level of potential in those areas. Hope I'm wrong though as we're crying out for a player like that.
 
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Lash said:
The base line is:

Mctominay - who works very hard and is a physical presence in there. No real stand out attributes.
Fred - works very hard, presses well, can dribble quite well too, but lacks physical presence.
Matic - Best sheilding, passing and positioning midfielder we have, but massively vunerable on the counter attack.

Garner is a better passer than Fred and McTominay, I think his set piece delivery gets him in the team alone. Physically he's improving, but he can only improve to the level of Premier league player by playing. He was fine against Premier league opposition against one of the best teams in the country.
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McT does time his late runs in the box fairly well, and at times his passing has good weight and speed, but it’s not consistent enough nor at a high enough level for a starting midfielder. Also, he’s not a holding midfielder so no idea why we keep playing him there.

Fred, as you say, is a hard worker and decent presser, but he doesn’t really excel at anything else.

Matic is our best midfielder at passing between the lines, which Garner seems do well so far at Forest. Having Garner, if he can step up to PL football, will allow Fred to push forward and press higher. Garner seems to read the game well and he likes a tackle too.

That said, we will not be able to play a high line if we continue to play De Gea in goal.
 
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Unless ETH thinks otherwise, the general consensus around the club at the moment is that Garner is still not ready to feature regularly in our first team and needs another year or 2 on loan.

So I’m not expecting him to be part of our first team squad next season.

I don’t agree with it personally, but I have heard this directly from club sources.
 
Cee90 said:
Unless ETH thinks otherwise, the general consensus around the club at the moment is that Garner is still not ready to feature regularly in our first team and needs another year or 2 on loan.

So I’m not expecting him to be part of our first team squad next season.

I don’t agree with it personally, but I have heard this directly from club sources.
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Is that the general consensus? Where was this published?
 
jeepers said:
McT does time his late runs in the box fairly well, and at times his passing has good weight and speed, but it’s not consistent enough nor at a high enough level for a starting midfielder. Also, he’s not a holding midfielder so no idea why we keep playing him there.

Fred, as you say, is a hard worker and decent presser, but he doesn’t really excel at anything else.

Matic is our best midfielder at passing between the lines, which Garner seems do well so far at Forest. Having Garner, if he can step up to PL football, will allow Fred to push forward and press higher. Garner seems to read the game well and he likes a tackle too.

That said, we will not be able to play a high line if we continue to play De Gea in goal.
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Agreed. I think we will need to find a replacement within for De Gea, but he won't be leaving any time soon.
 
New Signing, Fred, McTominay and Garner seems like a good selection. Would really need the new signing to be top quality though, with the other 3 competing/rotating to partner them.
 
Cee90 said:
Unless ETH thinks otherwise, the general consensus around the club at the moment is that Garner is still not ready to feature regularly in our first team and needs another year or 2 on loan.

So I’m not expecting him to be part of our first team squad next season.

I don’t agree with it personally, but I have heard this directly from club sources.
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If he needs another two years to be ready to break into a midfield duo of Fred ad McT then he needs to be sold this summer as its likely we'll have signed better midfielders in the next two years (I hope so...).

May as well sell him whilst his stock is still high as a prospect (just turned 21).
 
yumtum said:
If he needs another two years to be ready to break into a midfield duo of Fred ad McT then he needs to be sold this summer as its likely we'll have signed better midfielders in the next two years (I hope so...).

May as well sell him whilst his stock is still high as a prospect (just turned 21).
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I agree, the benchmark is pretty low at the moment but as you say, we will be hopefully reinforcing our midfield with more quality that is ‘ready made’ in the next couple of years. Garner is a bit too green even though he has got some good experience in the Championship.

I personally would like to see him given a chance next year but I fully expect the club to loan him out again.
 
Cee90 said:
I agree, the benchmark is pretty low at the moment but as you say, we will be hopefully reinforcing our midfield with more quality that is ‘ready made’ in the next couple of years. Garner is a bit too green even though he has got some good experience in the Championship.

I personally would like to see him given a chance next year but I fully expect the club to loan him out again.
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I could see us keeping him unless we sign a few midfielders.

Assuming Pogba, Donny, Mata & Lingard leave, we’d be left with McTominay, Fred, Matic, Bruno for 6 spaces in the midfield. Hannibal will maybe be more involved next season but it’d still be leaving ourselves very short.
 
We'll never know if he's ready unless he gets the chance to play with the better players in our current team. It's okay to be risk averse, but a complete absence of game time with the first team will answer a question that hasn't even been afforded to be asked.
 
golden_blunder said:
I could see him becoming ETH’s DeJong if he takes over at United
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Yep a more progressive deep lying playmaker with Bruno and Fred ahead of him doing the pressing could work nicely.
 
i worry our midfield “signings” may be garner and vdb. i like both but am not convinced that would take us where we need to be.
 
talking robot said:
i worry our midfield “signings” may be garner and vdb. i like both but am not convinced that would take us where we need to be.
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Well I think we know that vdb is the ultimate system player and no one knows ETHs systems and methods better, so it could be a chance for him to finally show his worth
 
Bondi77 said:
It will all depend on the new manager I would imagine
Have you spoken to him?
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Have I spoken to our new manager do you mean? No, of course not.

Obviously the new manager will have the ultimate say.

I’m just telling you at this moment in time the sentiment around certain players at the club.

I doubt that any new manager would know that much about some of our youngsters so they will rely on people who are already at the club to help them make decisions.
 
He's been excellent today. Can't wait to see what ETH can do with him.
 
golden_blunder said:
Well I think we know that vdb is the ultimate system player and no one knows ETHs systems and methods better, so it could be a chance for him to finally show his worth
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Assuming Pogba and Matic leave and ETH is the next manager, do you think a midfield of Garner, McTominay, VDB, Fred, and Bruno would be good enough (fighting for 3 spots) to get us back to the top? It's debatable I suppose, but I'd say we would still need a world class or at least very good #6.

About Van de Beek in particular, I actually agree with you. I think he will show his worth. Just making the point that I'm skeptical on him and Garner being the only incomings in midfield.
 
If Forest get promoted (and it's reasonably likely given they're the best of the contenders) then he 10000% has to stay there for another season.
 
talking robot said:
Assuming Pogba and Matic leave and ETH is the next manager, do you think a midfield of Garner, McTominay, VDB, Fred, and Bruno would be good enough (fighting for 3 spots) to get us back to the top? It's debatable I suppose, but I'd say we would still need a world class or at least very good #6.

About Van de Beek in particular, I actually agree with you. I think he will show his worth. Just making the point that I'm skeptical on him and Garner being the only incomings in midfield.
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It's not debatable at all. McTominay would be our best DM out of that lot which just isn't good enough. I think we'll get a new DM and keep Matic for another year though myself.
 
marktan said:
If Forest get promoted (and it's reasonably likely given they're the best of the contenders) then he 10000% has to stay there for another season.
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Would be the most sensible for him and his career but given the state of our midfield we should at least give him a chance in the preseason and make McTominay go down pecking order. Really we are that desperate for JG to make the step up...

On paper: Fred, Neves, Garner, New DM, Mejbri, VDB doesn't look that bad. Still have to bring in two players which will be difficult given the limited funds we have and need to strenghten almost every position..
 
Cee90 said:
Have I spoken to our new manager do you mean? No, of course not.

Obviously the new manager will have the ultimate say.

I’m just telling you at this moment in time the sentiment around certain players at the club.

I doubt that any new manager would know that much about some of our youngsters so they will rely on people who are already at the club to help them make decisions.
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Well I hope the new manager asks Bruno as he seems to be a fan.
 
Bondi77 said:
The better the league the higher the intensity and that is where technique and speed of thought comes into play.
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Yep, and Garner has never really impressed me with dealing with pressure in the championship or the youth team. He's not terrible in that regard like a Bruno or Donny in that he's easily muscled off the ball every time, but he lacks the agility to consistently turn away from pressing which you need at the top level if you're going to play the "De Jong" role.

Galbraith, on the other hand, has been very impressive in that regard for Doncaster, our youth teams (of which are the only games that are of comparable quality to Garner) and for N.Ireland.
 
Yagami said:
Yep, and Garner has never really impressed me with dealing with pressure in the championship or the youth team. He's not terrible in that regard like a Bruno or Donny in that he's easily muscled off the ball every time, but he lacks the agility to consistently turn away from pressing which you need at the top level if you're going to play the "De Jong" role.

Galbraith, on the other hand, has been very impressive in that regard for Doncaster, our youth teams (of which are the only games that are of comparable quality to Garner) and for N.Ireland.
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Fair enough.
 
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