[Oldyella]

Know they overspend, but com eon Chelsea paid £35m for Mudeake, you really think nobody pays over £30m for Sancho despite his struggles, he has still been in and around the England squad and is still playing quite regularly

He's on a massive wage too which would scare clubs off.

 

[Chief123]

If that goal went in, it would be different

And if United sold everyone redcafe “gave up on” then we’d have about 6 players left

It’s not clicked yet, but I would give him a whole season with a pre season before making any final judgement

He’s just had that. That’s what everyone was saying last season.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

He’s just had that. That’s what everyone was saying last season.

But he’s been AWOL most of this season

I think there’s enough there and talent and potential there for him to improve a lot.I was one of the shockingly few who voted for Rashford to stay when he was rotten last season and I’ll be one of the few this time too

My biggest concern with Sancho is his mentality. My confidence in him relies on him maturing

 

[Chief123]

But he’s been AWOL most of this season

I think there’s enough there and talent and potential there for him to improve a lot.I was one of the shockingly few who voted for Rashford to stay when he was rotten last season and I’ll be one of the few this time too

My biggest concern with Sancho is his mentality. My confidence in him relies on him maturing

I do agree his mentality is the biggest concern along with his intensity.

I actually think he has the most guile and creativity of all our wingers which is something Rashford’s build up play and passing really lacks. At home or against deep lying defences that is more important than raw pace. However, he needs to really show his strengths rather than vanishing in far too many games.

 

[Banana Republic]

We don’t know anything about what’s going on with managing Sancho, after his earlier absence this season.
Whatever the truth is about what happened to require the “time out”, there hasn’t been enough time to fully sort it out.
It may be that after bringing him back into the team and giving him plenty of playing time, is part of ETH’s plan, with the view of getting him safely to the summer break, before starting work on rebuilding Sancho in the pre-season.
With our earlier, exhausting match schedule, limited squad and injuries, he’s had to play, but he also needed that confidence building if he’s been at the low point we’ve heard about.
Pre-season will be key to this player’s future at Utd.
He’s still only 23.

 

[Suv666]

No aggression, no energy or desire. Waste of space really. He should be sold this season even if we have to take a hit financially. It sends the message to the rest of the squad that if you’re not good enough you’ll be shipped off.

 

[AndySmith1990]

We don’t know anything about what’s going on with managing Sancho, after his earlier absence this season.
Whatever the truth is about what happened to require the “time out”, there hasn’t been enough time to fully sort it out.
It may be that after bringing him back into the team and giving him plenty of playing time, is part of ETH’s plan, with the view of getting him safely to the summer break, before starting work on rebuilding Sancho in the pre-season.
With our earlier, exhausting match schedule, limited squad and injuries, he’s had to play, but he also needed that confidence building if he’s been at the low point we’ve heard about.
Pre-season will be key to this player’s future at Utd.
He’s still only 23.

More excuses.

If he's in the team then Ten Hag feels he's both mentally and physically ready to play.

He's just not good enough

 

[Beachryan]

A pretty large part of being a professional in any vocation is purely down to drive and attitude. Sancho strikes me as the kind of kid that is awesome in high-school because he's smart enough to never have to prep for tests or do homework early, but craps the bed when they go for a tough degree and everyone else is just as smart, but also have the work ethic.

The fact that he's not improving at all since his return says to me he's not going to. Such a waste of talent, but he'd hardly be the first.

 

[hobbers]

Know they overspend, but com eon Chelsea paid £35m for Mudeake, you really think nobody pays over £30m for Sancho despite his struggles, he has still been in and around the England squad and is still playing quite regularly

He’s not getting anywhere near the England squad again. And he’s on wages 5x his value

 

[Sarni]

Needs to be given one more season with a focus on transforming him into a pure #10 and if that fails, move him on for whatever we can get.

Again, terrible, terrible management by the football brains, giving a player a contract that large means the likelihood of being able to recoup much of a fee is very low

Trying to shoehorn an underperforming player into a different role is almost always a bad idea. We already have a no. 10 that’s performing very well, trying to shift Bruno to a different position or ditching him completely so Sancho can try himself in a new role is not the best idea.

Last season it was ‘he needs to be in a functioning side’, early this season everyone convinced themselves he just needed to be surrounded with exactly the right back, forward and midfielder that he needed to succeed, then everyone convinced themselves (without any real confirmation) he had serious mental issues and being off for several weeks was going to solve that, now he needs to be stuck in a different role. He’s just not a very good player. We should accept it and move on, he’s not worth the hassle.

 

[Lentwood]

Trying to shoehorn an underperforming player into a different role is almost always a bad idea. We already have a no. 10 that’s performing very well, trying to shift Bruno to a different position or ditching him completely so Sancho can try himself in a new role is not the best idea.

Last season it was ‘he needs to be in a functioning side’, early this season everyone convinced themselves he just needed to be surrounded with exactly the right back, forward and midfielder that he needed to succeed, then everyone convinced themselves (without any real confirmation) he had serious mental issues and being off for several weeks was going to solve that, now he needs to be stuck in a different role. He’s just not a very good player. We should accept it and move on, he’s not worth the hassle.

Not that simple though is it because we paid £73m and he's on £350K per week...so we either perservere or effectively write off the £73m transfer fee and have a player sat on the bench for three more seasons earning £18m per annum.

Plus, lets not exaggerate...I have been critical of him but he's not a lost cause. He's technically brilliant and he's contributed at times.

He is at a crossroads now. Does he want to spend pre-season knuckling down, putting on some muscle, getting ultra fit to fight for his place next season or does he want to spend tbe summer in Mykanos and playing PS5...and accept that his career at the top level is basically done?

 

[Member 125352]

He is one in the long line of technically excellent players with a lack of determination, courage and grit. Grit wins you trophies, if you doubt that just watch Argentina in the latest world cup and Italy in the last Euro championship. If you have a never say die attitude with an ounce of talent the sky is the limit.

Sancho should leave so that he not hinders the development and attitude of Garnacho. We don’t need to buy anyone else, the solution is in the squad already.

Garnacho/Rashford on the left - Rashford/new striker at 9 - Antony/Bruno on the right (though ideally Pellistri makes strides)

 

[meamth]

I still believe that his best days are ahead of him. I won't be writing him off just yet, he is still so young.

He still can improve physically and mentally, just give him some stability and time with ETH.

After all this is just his first season with ETH. Who knows with proper striker he can really fully utilize his deliveries and playmaking abilities.

 

[Sarni]

Not that simple though is it because we paid £73m and he's on £350K per week...so we either perservere or effectively write off the £73m transfer fee and have a player sat on the bench for three more seasons earning £18m per annum.

Plus, lets not exaggerate...I have been critical of him but he's not a lost cause. He's technically brilliant and he's contributed at times.

He is at a crossroads now. Does he want to spend pre-season knuckling down, putting on some muscle, getting ultra fit to fight for his place next season or does he want to spend tbe summer in Mykanos and playing PS5...and accept that his career at the top level is basically done?

We overpaid for a player that wasn’t worth the money and wasn’t even good enough to have any impact on the team. It happens, just because he cost £73m should not automatically mean he has to take minutes we could give to a superior or simply a more committed player. We have Garnacho who cost next to nothing and Diallo who was also much cheaper capable of playing the same position, we are better off giving minutes to them than persisting with Sancho just because we thought he was good.

I said it after his six months here, he should have been loaned to another PL club at that time. It could help: he may have regained confidence playing with less pressure at a smaller club, or if that is not his issue then it would have served as a wake up call as he would know he can’t just stroll and expect to still be here. That ship may have sailed, it’s probably too late but I would still be inclined to try. Send him to Palace or Fulham and see if he can get back to any kind of form.

 

[kundalini]

Sancho has 34 key passes in the PL this season (2.10 per 90 mins), resulting in 2 assists. His expected assists is 2.45.

According to Understat, he has created 6 chances with an expected value between 0.10 and 0.16, then 0.27, with his highest being 0.39 (to Weghorst).

9 of his key passes were for long range shots, another 3 for shots just outside the area, including his assist for Fred's deflected goal against Spurs.

His assist for McTominay's goal against Everton is also fairly typical of a type of key pass he contributes, a shot inside the area but at an angle so difficult to score. McTominay's goal was the 6th highest value chance that Sancho has created in the PL this season.

Garnacho has 2 key passes in the PL, both assists, from huge chances, expected value 0.41 and 0.70.

Elanga has 6 key passes in the PL this season, one assist, two huge chances, the assist for Sancho's goal against Liverpool, and Fernandes' chance in the crazy minute at Southampton with an expected value of 0.66

For expected assists per 90 mins in the PL, Fernandes is top, then Elanga, Garnacho, Eriksen, Martial, Sabitzer, Fred, Casemiro, then Sancho at 0.15

For key passes per 90 mins, Fernandes top, then Sancho, Fred 3rd.

(all figures from Understat)

 

[The United]

He is more aggressive. But his short passing around the box (not in the box) is very weird and gives away the ball at times. It is hard to see that he is the build-up player that people are claiming to be when his impact before the box is very minimal.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He is one in the long line of technically excellent players with a lack of determination, courage and grit. Grit wins you trophies, if you doubt that just watch Argentina in the latest world cup and Italy in the last Euro championship. If you have a never say die attitude with an ounce of talent the sky is the limit.

Sancho should leave so that he not hinders the development and attitude of Garnacho. We don’t need to buy anyone else, the solution is in the squad already.

Garnacho/Rashford on the left - Rashford/new striker at 9 - Antony/Bruno on the right (though ideally Pellistri makes strides)

Don't forget Diallo too. He can play on the right, looks more talented to me than Sancho.

 

[Lentwood]

We overpaid for a player that wasn’t worth the money and wasn’t even good enough to have any impact on the team. It happens, just because he cost £73m should not automatically mean he has to take minutes we could give to a superior or simply a more committed player. We have Garnacho who cost next to nothing and Diallo who was also much cheaper capable of playing the same position, we are better off giving minutes to them than persisting with Sancho just because we thought he was good.

I said it after his six months here, he should have been loaned to another PL club at that time. It could help: he may have regained confidence playing with less pressure at a smaller club, or if that is not his issue then it would have served as a wake up call as he would know he can’t just stroll and expect to still be here. That ship may have sailed, it’s probably too late but I would still be inclined to try. Send him to Palace or Fulham and see if he can get back to any kind of form.

Yes but again...you're also missing the point! Sounds simple doesnt it, 'loan him/drop him' but he's costing us £20m a season.

ETH is going to have to coach him/use him somehow because otherwise we've chucked £163m (fee + five years salary) down the drain.

Fun fact - his salary is 9% of our total expenditure on wages for the entire squad

 

[lex talionis]

My concern with Sancho is the lack of urgency he plays with. It’s not at the appalling level of Martial’s lethargy, but he really needs to add to speed to his play.

 

[Sarni]

Yes but again...you're also missing the point! Sounds simple doesnt it, 'loan him/drop him' but he's costing us £20m a season.

ETH is going to have to coach him/use him somehow because otherwise we've chucked £163m (fee + five years salary) down the drain.

Fun fact - his salary is 9% of our total expenditure on wages for the entire squad

His salary or fee should not guarantee him anything. If we have to send him to reserves then be it. As things stand we are going to have two players vastly superior to him on the left next year, and at least one that is better than him on the right.

He’s not going to justify his fee or even be worth playing. We will have to stick with him as a squad player for 2 more years and then he will be gone. He’s probably going to be playing abroad after that, or find work at a team like Palace/Leeds before inevitably heading to Championship before he’s 30.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

It seems that ETH prefers to play Bruno as RW instead of Sancho, and ETH might favor Amad as backup to Bruno centrally. Things are not looking good for Sancho. Garnacho is already more composed on the left than Sancho.

 

[klayton88]

Mitoma is everything I want Sancho to be

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It's interesting that a lot of people put his failings down to Mental/Physical attributes... I genuinely just think he isn't good enough from a football standpoint to play out our level. I mean, what does he excel at? I don't think he has one footballing attribute where you think "yeah, he's really excellent at that" ...

The thing he seems to be best at is picking out a pass when he's actually in the box - I don't think he's incredible at it, and he's definitely not a great passer anywhere else on the pitch - but even then, he so infrequently manages to get himeslf into the box to make good use of this "skill".

 

[Ayoba]

Needs to be given one more season with a focus on transforming him into a pure #10 and if that fails, move him on for whatever we can get.

Again, terrible, terrible management by the football brains, giving a player a contract that large means the likelihood of being able to recoup much of a fee is very low

Have we learnt nothing from the past 10 years of failure?? We need to stop giving so many chances to players when it's clear it's not working out. This is the reason why we're stuck with Martial for 8 years and Phil Jones is still here! If this was man city, they'd get rid!

Sancho's time is up and I hope we sell him.

 

[Lentwood]

Have we learnt nothing from the past 10 years of failure?? We need to stop giving so many chances to players when it's clear it's not working out. This is the reason why we're stuck with Martial for 8 years and Phil Jones is still here! If this was man city, they'd get rid!

Sancho's time is up and I hope we sell him.

Did you read any of the previous posts?

This isn't 'Football Manager', we can't just transfer list players and wait for the offers to roll-in.

We have created ourselves a huge problem. We paid £73m for Sancho and he is paid £350K per week. He is not incentivised to push for a move and no club will take him.

Ask yourself, who are the potential suitors for Sancho? Who would pay him £350K per week? Who would pay him £250K per week? Who would pay him £200K per week?

The answer is, nobody...and that's before you factor in any kind of transfer fee.

Therefore....the point I keep repeating is that we can't 'just sell him/loan him' as people are suggesting.

We have two choices at this stage....

1) Persevere with Sancho - work with him on the training pitch, get him fitter, educate him, find a new position/role in the team

OR

2) Write off a £73m transfer fee and £100m in wages (5 years x £20m per annum)

There is no 3rd option because we blundered massively when signing him, as we have tended to do over the last decade.

 

[Ayoba]

1) Persevere with Sancho - work with him on the training pitch, get him fitter, educate him, find a new position/role in the team

OR

2) Write off a £73m transfer fee and £100m in wages (5 years x £20m per annum)

There is no 3rd option because we blundered massively when signing him, as we have tended to do over the last decade.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”


And your send point makes on sense. Firstly, there will be a transfer fee (I reckon we could fetch at least £35-40m) and why are you included wages in this? We havent paid all his wages upfront.

 

[Lentwood]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”


And your send point makes on sense. Firstly, there will be a transfer fee (I reckon we could fetch at least £35-40m) and why are you included wages in this? We havent paid all his wages upfront.

I think you misunderstand the point that is being made.

Let me simplify this - name me a team that will pay 'at least £35m-40m' for Sancho AND will pay him £350,000 per week?

 

[flappyjay]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”


And your send point makes on sense. Firstly, there will be a transfer fee (I reckon we could fetch at least £35-40m) and why are you included wages in this? We havent paid all his wages upfront.

Wherever Sancho goes he will expect his 350 a week. We might find ourselves selling him for 35-40 and then paying half his wages.

Probably a loan with an option to buy in the bundesliga. If he replicates his old form someone will come for him.

 

[OldTrevil]

I'm still not convinced with Sancho, but given how chaotic EtH first season has been I'll give him until halfway through next season to call him a flop.

 

[Lentwood]

Wherever Sancho goes he will expect his 350 a week. We might find ourselves selling him for 35-40 and then paying half his wages.

Probably a loan with an option to buy in the bundesliga. If he replicates his old form someone will come for him.

Can I just add to this a few 'highest earner' figures for context....

Newcastle - Bruno - £120,000p/w
Tottenham - Harry Kane - £200,000p/w
Dortmund - Sebastien Haller - £182,000p/w
Brighton - Adam Lallana - £90,000p/w
Aston Villa - Boubacar Kamara - £175,000p/w

So even IF a club like that were interested in one of our cast-offs' (and that's a big 'IF'), he'd blow their wage structure out of the water unless he took a gigantic reduction.

Personally, I can't see that happening. Would you accept a 50% pay-cut?

Going back to my original point, his market value at this point is basically nothing.

 

[flappyjay]

Can I just add to this a few 'highest earner' figures for context....

Newcastle - Bruno - £120,000p/w
Tottenham - Harry Kane - £200,000p/w
Dortmund - Sebastien Haller - £182,000p/w
Brighton - Adam Lallana - £90,000p/w
Aston Villa - Boubacar Kamara - £175,000p/w

So even IF a club like that were interested in one of our cast-offs' (and that's a big 'IF'), he'd blow their wages structure out of the water unless he took a gigantic reduction.

Personally, I can't see that happening. Would you accept a 50% pay-cut?

Going back to my original point, his market value at this point is basically nothing.

Thats why I say in the event that he leaves whether on loan or permanent we are going to be paying at least half his wages, he wouldn't take a paycut. Inter bailed us out of the Alexis contract. I don't see a situation where a club rescues us again. His got a another 3 years to go. 54 million we still owe him

 

[Ayoba]

I think you misunderstand the point that is being made.

Let me simplify this - name me a team that will pay 'at least £35m-40m' for Sancho AND will pay him £350,000 per week?

That's not my job, there are people better payed at Man Utd who should be able to figure that out. Anyway, that's a separate discussion.

Back to the original discussion, what makes you think that after 2 years of nothing from him, a bit of 'transformation' and he might come good in another position?! Might as well give Martial a new contact too, he might suddenly 'transform' into a decent player.

 

[jesperjaap]

He’s not getting anywhere near the England squad again. And he’s on wages 5x his value

Yet he is closer to it than Madueke, like we would sell him for £30m or under either way? Come on, we arent recouping our money but nobody pays over £30m, get outta here

 

[jesperjaap]

He's on a massive wage too which would scare clubs off.

Yes appreciate that, that is something has been possibly problematic in selling our players. More was a comment on nobody being interested in payin gover £30m max for him which is just pure daft in my opinion in todays market

 

[Member 109952]

On what plant was Woodward on when he gave Sancho 350k a week, when no one else was in for him? 150k would've easily done the trick.

Himself and Bartamaeu really were from another planet, absolutely clueless.

 

[hobbers]

Yet he is closer to it than Madueke, like we would sell him for £30m or under either way? Come on, we arent recouping our money but nobody pays over £30m, get outta here

No club in the world is paying over £30m for Sancho. Not when they'd also have to offer wages in the same ballpark as his current deal.

Sancho is obviously the epitome of a player who would rather sit on the bench and rake in the money, than take a hit on his income to get his career back on track.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I think you misunderstand the point that is being made.

Let me simplify this - name me a team that will pay 'at least £35m-40m' for Sancho AND will pay him £350,000 per week?

No option but to keep faith. The fact that we pay ridiculous wages is the reason why we sell so poorly. Henderson, Maguire and to a lesser degree, McTominay will be those who either are sold for a fee significantly lower than what they're worth or will become unsellable.

 

[Oldyella]

Yes appreciate that, that is something has been possibly problematic in selling our players. More was a comment on nobody being interested in payin gover £30m max for him which is just pure daft in my opinion in todays market

Yeah, take the wage issue away and he's a player lots of clubs might be interested in. I think we are stuck with him though, at least for another year, so hopefully his form improves next season.

 

[Lentwood]

That's not my job, there are people better payed at Man Utd who should be able to figure that out. Anyway, that's a separate discussion.

Back to the original discussion, what makes you think that after 2 years of nothing from him, a bit of 'transformation' and he might come good in another position?! Might as well give Martial a new contact too, he might suddenly 'transform' into a decent player.

This WAS the original discussion

I said (to summarise) - 'we;re going to have to find/do something with Sancho OR accept he's a £173m bust'

At which point you said (to summarise) - 'sell him'...and my last two/three posts have been focused on why I believe that's not an option.

To answer your question about what makes me think he might come good....well....personally, I don't think he'll 'come good', in the sense that I don't think he'll ever be a starting XI player for us, IF we want to compete for trophies.

He's not a total bust though, he has some positive attributes. He is technically very good, he sees a pass, he can score the odd goal, he's good in tight areas....so again, going right back to the very beginning...I'd like to see us at least try and coach him into a #10. At least at #10, his lack of pace might not be such a major issue.

You keep referencing Martial....and we have had precisely the same problem there. We give these lads massive wages before they have achieved anything and then no club can afford to buy them when they don't reach their potential. Had we given Sancho £175K, for example, or even £200K, there might have been hope. At £350K we have absolutely no chance of moving him on, we're completely stuck.

Same with Martial...if he were earning £125K per week and not £220K (or whatever), some club like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, Everton, Sevilla, Dortmund etc....would have bought him by now...but nobody can or will pay the outrageous salaries we pay and players aren't stupid...they won't tear up massive contracts to move to 'lesser' clubs on significantly lower wages.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Had a decent start to the season and then something happened. Seems like something very very significant in his personal life. Hasn't really bounced back from that absence but in this case I think you have to be patient. I'll start to worry more if he isn't improving steadily this time next season.