Not true for him, he played well against the "good teams" they came up against.
My main concern with Sancho is he's never really looked great for England either, and I think its because he's not individualistic enough
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
Not true for him, he played well against the "good teams" they came up against.
My main concern with Sancho is he's never really looked great for England either, and I think its because he's not individualistic enough
@Zehner do you believe football is cultural?
Buddy, honestly now, have you lost your goddamn mind?
Messi and Neymar had the highest number of attempted and completed take ons per 90 at Sancho's age, even later. They were also on the highest deciles for shots taken on and goals scored. They were not direct? What is your definition of direct?
Here's your amazing 20/21 compared for Sancho, Messi, Neymar. Messi is like 33 already here, he was even more direct when he was younger. Even though Sancho take ons are impressive, his numbers are considerably lower than Neymar and old man Messi. Neymar is at 9.8 take ons per 90, to Sancho's 6. And Neymar 29 years old here, not 21. But more importantly, Sancho was never at the highest deciles for scoring and shooting like Neymar and Messi. Even in the easy league for forwards that is the Bundesliga.
Also, Sancho is in those deciles for about 2 years at Dortmund. Which makes it cherry picking. Neymar and Messi were in those deciles, consistently, for over a decade.
Is that really the hill you choose to die on? Why don't you compare Messi's and Neymar's playmaking statistics with those of Mané and Salah for instance if they are so eerily similar?
I'm sure that if you created a similarity measure based on attacking stats, Sancho would be a lot closer to Neymar and Messi than to Salah and Mané.By the way, here are the scouting reports of Sancho in the 19/20 season:
Key take aways: Sancho was the only player who came close to the combination of output and playmaking Neymar and Messi provided. All other players either had significantly worse output or significantly worse playmaking stats (chance creation, passing and dribbling).
Last edited:
I thought Sancho was reasonably good yesterday to be honest. He's not an explosive wide player who terrorises opponents when he runs at them but he is smart with his movement and able to create promising situations with this movement and his strength in tight areas.
He mucked up some simple passes but generally kept the ball moving really nicely and, in my view, played quite an important part in our dominance of the game.
I really don't see, by the way, why people are criticising him for "not crossing enough" or generally creating enough. It was so patently obvious yesterday that our issue was a lack of a proper striker; Antony and Bruno were resorting to long range efforts regularly because of it.
He mucked up some simple passes but generally kept the ball moving really nicely and, in my view, played quite an important part in our dominance of the game.
I really don't see, by the way, why people are criticising him for "not crossing enough" or generally creating enough. It was so patently obvious yesterday that our issue was a lack of a proper striker; Antony and Bruno were resorting to long range efforts regularly because of it.
Eh? That comeback makes no sense. Has to be one of the least quick-witted answers I've read on here.
I don't know what this means?
Literally all Sancho did in the Bundesliga is beat the high line offside trap by kick n’rush and then play a sideways mini pass for the striker to tap in & repeat. It’s why his assists were stupid level in the Bundesliga. His mini passes do shit all in the premier league because no one gives that space and the opposition doesn’t let him play at this ‘slow’ pace we should be playing for him apparently.
Yet we are the one’s with the passion for Kick n’rush apparently.
Yeah this is all slow possesion build up - in my colon
When the f*ck Dortmund play like Barcelona or a Pep team?
One of the most kick n’rush teams of all time from their gegenpressing times.
The poster is a Sancho stan. Because he tore up the Bundesliga they feel he is as good as Ribery and cannot accept the facts. Sancho was far more productive in Germany and was actually going past players for fun, especially in his first season. It is just a way to excuse the player and blame United/fans.
The only thing I'm dying of is laughter. It's you who's choosing to die on the bizarre hill that Messi and Neymar were not direct players, when in fact they were, by every conceivable metric.
Why don't you compare Messi's and Neymar's playmaking statistics with those of Mané and Salah for instance if they are so eerily similar?
Someone can be a playmaker and be a direct player. Some are playmakers and are not direct. Some are direct players without being playmakers. Some are neither. The terms are not mutually exclusive, seemingly to anyone but you.
Have you ever heard of Kevin De Bruyne?
Sancho in the EPL and for England, is very clearly not a direct player. And while his brief time at Bundesliga was considerably better, he was still more of a playmaker than an attacker.
Last edited:
I'm not really sure what he offers United to be honest, except for a good touch and close control. It's also alarming that he doesn't seem to have the tools to play on the right at United, and he needs to play on the left because Shaw gives him the overlaps and underlaps that he needs to create space for himself.
His lack of pace, aggression, general physicality, coupled with his inability to run at a man or try and take someone on is very worrying. You think of a player like Grealish in that position and he'd just run at the full back all day long. He’s not even quick enough to fashion some space and have a shot and his crosses are hopeful at best.
It wasn’t a come back, it was just facts about how poor the German league is.
A solid performance, but bus parking clubs are exactly the kind opponent Sancho should be tearing apart. But final judgment has to be reserved until after we’ve brought in a proper striker, which neither Martial, Rashford or Weghorst are.
I'm assuming we're not going to be starting Martial yet. Otherwise sure, you play him. Bruno has already been playing in deeper positions frequently in Casemiro's absence; I'm just going off what ETH is already doing.
If we are being honest he isn't the player that he was at youth level or with Dortmund. There are three issues that are difficult to explain, he doesn't demand the ball as much as he used to, he seems afraid to take risks even when he eventually takes them and he has a lot of subtle but consequential poor touches.
Last edited:
This is the exact thought-terminating type of argument that was made here for weeks whenever somebody dared criticize Weghorst... Who coincidentally, is another nothing player who looked like a stud in Germany.
This is what worries me, he does this a lot and it’s a clear sign of a player struggling for confidence, this and the lack of running at the fullback.
I don't think Antony and Bruno resorting to long range efforts was anything to do with not having a proper striker. There just greedy players at times especially Antony who like to take shots and usually miss.
I agree based on what we have seen at United, its more than "he was playing in a weaker league" he isn't the same player at all.
Based on what we've seen at United I would ship him out personally.
I'm just not agreeing with you that he didn't reach a high level at Dortmund against top sides, because its a false statement
Much better from him yesterday. The way he plays for us reminds me so much of Mata. Watching old clips of Sancho suggests he has a bit more pace than Mata but he doesn’t show it. He looks technical, clever, quite classy, very Mata-ish. Mata is a lovely bloke and was a nice player for us but his lack of pace and physicality rendered him less effective in our league. Concern is that Sancho is feeling some of the same difficulties and is yet to work out how to overcome them.
One thing I’ve been wondering is: could it be that he didn’t really want to come here? He couldn’t get into the team when he first got here and it’s as though his problems started before he kicked a ball for us.
Weghorst looked like a stud in Germany?
Where? Maybe in the dressing room but certainly not on a football pitch.Tell me, by which "conceivable metric" is a player that scored or assisted 34 times in 2289 minutes (a goal every 135 minutes, a goal or assist every 67 minutes) not direct?
You clearly don't know what you're talking about and now you're getting angry because you realize it but can't get out of the hole you dug yourself. Just admit you were wrong and go on.
Whatever that was supposed to be, it was pathetic.
I understand the Mata comparisons. I wasn't a huge fan of Mata when he was here, but I'd have to say he was comfortably better than Sancho.
They both keep the ball well. Mata had a good eye for goal and a defence splitting pass, his problem was he slowed the play down and was pushed off the ball too much. Sancho is not as bad in the latter two categories but lagging far behind in the other two.
He did ok
We as a team look better with him than weghorst which is obvious.
Thought he linked well with Shaw until Shaw went off. I was more impressed with him and his one touch stuff passing to create space with malacia and Bruno which killed brentfords press especially second half
We as a team look better with him than weghorst which is obvious.
Thought he linked well with Shaw until Shaw went off. I was more impressed with him and his one touch stuff passing to create space with malacia and Bruno which killed brentfords press especially second half
By the number of shots and take ons per 90, I thought we’d been through this.
What are you talking about you lunatic? This from the man that used the same stats to tell me that Messi was not a direct player
Take a break, you're having a mare.
This question mark about his speed keeps coming up. Is it his athletic ability to sprint 40m or 60m and be fast or is it a combination of outright sprint speed multiplied by the number of them he'd be expected to do in a 90 minutes match?
Or is it his mental reaction time to act while a team mate is ready or to avoid an incoming player?
If it's his outright sprint speed, I find it hard to believe that a young man whose job is based on physical performance can't significantly improve this area of his game.
What are you talking about you lunatic? This from the man that used the same stats to tell me that Messi was not a direct player
We were talking about your conceivable metrics, not mine. When you classify Messi as direct, you have to classify Sancho as direct, too.
Sancho 19/20 is in the top 5 percentile for attempted take ons and top 6 percentile for shots on target?
In general: If you ask me, there are different types of direct. Sancho is a player that develops "directness" by playing progressive passes and dribbles between the lines. Those are Messi's and Neymar's defining qualities as well. In contrast to them, Sancho only takes high percentage chances whereas Messi and Neymar go for goal more often. Neymar and Sancho also like to receive the ball into space while Messi almost exclusively receives it into his feet. All of them recycle the ball much - they have high passing success rates, few possession losses for their positions, etc. Not direct in the traditional sense. Mané and Salah are completely different - they get a much higher percentage of their passes into open space, a higher percentage of their passes occurs in the final third and when they are on the ball, they usually go for immediate goal threat within two or three touches. Not much recycling or patience there. Classical direct players. Some stats on that: On average only 7 of the 67 passes Messi received were progressive. That's barely 10%. In comparison, Mané is at 23%, Salah at 32%, Sané at 35%. Neymar at 15% and Sancho at 19%.
You can show that on many more metrics. Pass completion ratio, progressive carries/passes per 90, touches per 90, shot to touch ratio, etc. If you make a similarity measurement or something similar, I'm sure Messi and Neymar will be a lot closer to Sancho than to Salah and Mané.
Confidence and determination seem to be part of the issue but his basic straight line sprint pace appears to be average rather than scorching.
I wouldn’t say it’s impossible for an athlete to increase their basic speed with training but all footballers are doing that, all the time, and, stating the obvious, some are faster than others.
He’s really shite considering the fee.
Agreed. Shockingly so, really. Grealish for an extra £20m would have been much better value. But Sancho could improve, it’s just hard to imagine where he could play and consistently get in the team.
By the number of shots and take ons per 90, I thought we’d been through this.
What are you talking about you lunatic? This from the man that used the same stats to tell me that Messi was not a direct player
Take a break, you're having a mare.
You don’t seem to be following what the fella is saying.
I reckon Sancho will come good.
However… he does seem to be Jesse Lingard adjacent. They’re for the banter even when he’s not showing up on the pitch. Which is a worry.
However… he does seem to be Jesse Lingard adjacent. They’re for the banter even when he’s not showing up on the pitch. Which is a worry.
Yeah wouldn’t write him off yet but that’s more based on hope than anything else.
I hope you’re right, and would love it if he did. But he has now had 2 years. How much time do you give someone who with his performance level at the time and the money cost (not his fault, but a factor) before you cut your loss??
this just stinks of another martial scenario where his contract runs down and we give him a fat stinking new one so he doesn’t leave on a free and we look like mugs when possibly the best thing to do is give him next year and if not then sell for whatever we can get rather than offer someone a contract who doesn’t deserve it
Yes, that makes sense. My only personal experience is from competing in cycling and one season I went to hill and mountain climbing so had to lose lots of weight.
Then went back later to sprint distances of 1500m or 1k so put a lot more muscle on and my place in the ranking rose accordingly and that was while working and in my 30s so I have to believe the club would be trying its utmost to get optimal performance out of him.
Like you said, there's always been this question about whether his confidence is dented or has a less physical problem. Someone from Germany alluded to that on here the other day but said they're not getting into that which is very fair. Whoever you are, your medical history should be confidential.
As you say, maybe it's as simple as he didn't want to come here! Asked for ridiculous money, that still didn't put us off so here we are.
One of the most confounding players I've ever seen. Worst thing is I can see this story having a fair few more chapters yet.
It's the 2-3 tentative touches he takes when he's in space. Seems like deer in headlights and absolute fear of mucking it up, almost like he's like "oh feck, I have space to do something, if I mess this up everyone will think I'm crap"
Just put your head down and drive forward man.
I'd love to know the process that goes into assembling a squad and how much authority the various members of management have.
In my former life as an investment manager you'd have discretion to buy certain things in set percentages to ensure diversification so I realise a juggernaut football team is very different and a lot less diversified but Sancho must represent, what, close to 10% of the overall squad value?
I'm making a rough calculation on the initial fee, its amortisation plus the annual salary and then the expected points a player should bring.
It seems like Sancho should be delivering some big performances but we're not seeing it so I don't think the club can afford to be too sentimental or compassionate, these players are being paid to generate big sums of income for the plc.
It just seems like a very chunky piece of the pie has been allocated and I'd love to know if everyone was in agreement or not. If all the staff involved in the transfer were unanimous then it makes it seem even more baffling, what's gone wrong?
think he is one you have to keep for one more year and just hope really turns it on. Just too many holes to fill and doubt he fetches in enough to really bring in several players (plus not like we can buy 10 players realistically) If we get a real number 9 should have enough wide options that hopefully can work throughout the year.
Yeah that’s sensible.
His decision making has been pretty weak. Both on and off the field. He is already made and baked with the kind of money we pay. No real carrot to fight for. Hoping he will prove all doubters wrong but I don't think things are looking good enough. The all important inner drive is just not there. All that covid19 rule busting. All the disciplinary actions at dortmund. Signs were there but ignored. We were too thirsty and desperate at the time for something good and were hustled hard.
Was quite pleased with his performance yesterday on the whole. Didn't demand the ball enough or provide enough threat but he looked livelier, took his man on from time to time, was finding space and not fecking up simple passes like he has been. 6/10 but definite progress in terms of attitude, focus, and energy levels. Hope he starts the next game as well and can keep improving and gaining confidence.
Iniesta was a great dribbler
Well we are obviously not going to play exactly like them.
Eriksen is also nothing like Xavi - but it’s more about t he positions they will take up.
Video above me I think shows Sancho needing to play in Messi’s false 9 position but I haven’t watched the video.
- Status