Jaap Stam

kkcbl said:
Don't you think there are players who really want to earn their money?
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Veron and Hughes wanted to earn their money and get regular games. So Hughes for example left the club he loves most to do just that. Their was no future for him at Utd.

With Stam it was different, Ferige was going soon and had he really wanted to stay he would have.
 
Murt said:
Veron and Hughes wanted to earn their money and get regular games. So Hughes for example left the club he loves most to do just that. Their was no future for him at Utd.

With Stam it was different, Ferige was going soon and had he really wanted to stay he would have.
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I quote the following:

Look at Yorke, he knew he was fuched but he figured fergie would be gone soon. When Fergie told the players he was staying they apparently laughed at Yorke and said "thats you fuched
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;)

ps - it was a year, not 6 months, to wait.
 
kkcbl said:
I quote the following:

;)

ps - it was a year, not 6 months, to wait.
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ehh your point being?

Fergie would have left as soon as the season was over. Stam left in September, Fergie would be gone in May, 8 months give or take if you insist on being pedantic.
 
Jesus, it doesn't matter why Stam went, he's gone, and he went a long time ago. Why people keep banging on about it is beyond me. It's simple, he's gone, and he isn't coming back. And everything was never wonderful with the defence when he was in it either, as already pointed out.

If he wasn't an ex-United player, and that some people didn't perceive that our current defence is knackered, this wouldn't have even appeared in the Transfer Forum.

He's gone, get over it.
 
WeasteDevil said:
Jesus, it doesn't matter why Stam went, he's gone, and he went a long time ago. Why people keep banging on about it is beyond me. It's simple, he's gone, and he isn't coming back. And everything was never wonderful with the defence when he was in it either, as already pointed out.

If he wasn't an ex-United player, and that some people didn't perceive that our current defence is knackered, this wouldn't have even appeared in the Transfer Forum.

He's gone, get over it.
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Er, this is a forum, Weastie - it wouldn't be much of a forum if we were only 'allowed' to discuss the dictates of some of the posters here. ;)
 
Murt said:
ehh your point being?

Fergie would have left as soon as the season was over. Stam left in September, Fergie would be gone in May, 8 months give or take if you insist on being pedantic.
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My point being that it would have been a long wait for Stam not to do anything, & as it turned out that Fergie decided to stay, he would have been in the same boat as Yorke.

I still think he did the honourable thing & left a club who seemed hell bent on getting rid of him.
 
kkcbl said:
Er, this is a forum, Weastie - it wouldn't be much of a forum if we were only 'allowed' to discuss the dictates of some of the posters here. ;)
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Maybe, but some people are living in fantasy land! What value is there in arguing that Stam would make our current defence better? It isn't going to happen. It's dream-world.
 
kkcbl said:
My point being that it would have been a long wait for Stam not to do anything, & as it turned out that Fergie decided to stay, he would have been in the same boat as Yorke.
I still think he did the honourable thing & left a club who seemed hell bent on getting rid of him.
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At the time no one thought he was going to stay. Stam was like the rest of us in no doubt tht Fergie was going, history proved us wrong but thats irrelevant.
 
I cannot talk for other posters but the reason why I still protect Stam fiercely is due to the fact that I believe that he was treated too harshly by SAF, who did his best to damage this player’s career by labeling him “finished”. This man wasn’t only a great defender (and he is still a great defender) but also a great man and a true Manchester United supporter who showed his love to the cause not with mere words or with childish actions that only lead to a red card, but by losing out from his own pockets. just to sign with us (he accepted not to have his share of transfer just to keep his price tag at a reasonable level) and that despite the fact that the Italians and Real were ready to give him a wage 2 – 3 times more than we have given him. In a time were money is everything in football, were managers and shareholders seems taken each other to court without even caring that these actions would damage the club who makes them richer by the day and were homegrown talents betray their team just for an extra buck, that small gesture done by Stam is still treasured in my heart.

Stam had always given his 101% to the team proving himself to be the main column of the treble winning defense. With due respect its ridiculous to put our current crop (expecially Wes) at the same bracket of UEFA former defender of the year and one of the Serie A’s finest defenders. As a person who watches the Serie A regularly I can assure you that Stam at 31 is the same defender that used to lead us in the treble winning year, and the fact that so many clubs who would do anything for his signature bears as clear proof to that. Its seems that only SAF and a couple of supporters who cant list one mistake done the gaffer have fount weaknesses in Stam’s armour.

Stam had done one mistake in his entire career and was severely punished for it. He never wanted to leave our team but he was forced to do so when he was sent to train with the reserves and said that there was no space for him in the first team (in a defense made up of an injury prone Johnsen and the 2 superstars Maysie and Brown).Till the last minute he stressed on his loyalty to the side when he stated on the Italian media that if SAF would have called him a minute before signing his contract with Lazio, he would leave Italy without second thoughts, a statement that caused an uproar amongst Lazio’s supporters. Till this very moment Stam had remained loyal to our side, refusing to return to England (Arsenal, Newcastle and Liverpool wanted him) and play against us.

Stam should be remembered as a Manchester United legend and supporter and one of the best defenders that we had ever had. Selling him was a mistake expecailly after proving us that he is still one of the best defenders around. Only after this fact is accepted by everyone, only then we can close this chapter forever.
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
:wenger:

I am sure Stam really appreciate you protecting him fiercely...
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Sorry but I tend to praise legends and not stab them at the back when they leave us.

My mistake
 
WeasteDevil said:
Jesus, it doesn't matter why Stam went, he's gone, and he went a long time ago. Why people keep banging on about it is beyond me. It's simple, he's gone, and he isn't coming back. And everything was never wonderful with the defence when he was in it either, as already pointed out.

If he wasn't an ex-United player, and that some people didn't perceive that our current defence is knackered, this wouldn't have even appeared in the Transfer Forum.

He's gone, get over it.
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finally, some sense in this thread!
 
WeasteDevil said:
Jesus, it doesn't matter why Stam went, he's gone, and he went a long time ago. Why people keep banging on about it is beyond me. It's simple, he's gone, and he isn't coming back. And everything was never wonderful with the defence when he was in it either, as already pointed out.

If he wasn't an ex-United player, and that some people didn't perceive that our current defence is knackered, this wouldn't have even appeared in the Transfer Forum.

He's gone, get over it.
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Feck we only won 1 FA cup, 1 CL and 2 leagues with Stam as leader of our defense.

Gshhh Those were really hard times

Thanks God that afterwards Blanc took over :rolleyes:
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
Yeah, he was very inconsistent that season, which is often forgotten
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Thank you!

People seem to think that since he won the CL in his last game for the club, he must have had a brilliant last season, which he hadn't.
 
Floyd said:
Thank you!

People seem to think that since he won the CL in his last game for the club, he must have had a brilliant last season, which he hadn't.
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The away game against Bayern and the loss to Sheff Wednesday sticks to my mind as two bad games he had that season.
 
devilish said:
Sorry but I tend to praise legends and not stab them at the back when they leave us.

My mistake
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Stam is no more than a United legend than Yorke is, and I've seen you slag off Yorke

Double standards - you're full of them you muppet!
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
The away game against Bayern and the loss to Sheff Wednesday sticks to my mind as two bad games he had that season.
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After he fecked up away against Bayern I was ready to throw the TV out the window, that error was terrible.

He also let in a crap free kick from Brøndby, and should have saved Bayern's goal in the Final. I my memory serves me right he also should have saved one of Rivaldo's goals in the memorable 3-3 match in Spain. Christ, Rivaldo was enormous in that match! :eek:

Come to think of it, we really leaked that campaign, even with the best player ever Stam as our defensive leader;)
 
Did it ever crossed your mind that, that particular defense was already breaking into pieces with Irwin being too old to play at such high levels, with Mickey being still too inexperienced and mistake prone, with Wes out on injury and with Johnsen and May proving to be injury prone and inadequate to play anymore at such levels? Stam was the last stronghold in our defense that collapsed completely when he left us.

The biggest evidence that we missed Stam was that at one point we were undisputed champions with the title wrapped during the Easter festivities the season after (without Stam) we ended up THIRD and all thanks to a defense that was leaking goals from every side and that despite bringing in valid players like Veron and RVN + the sign of Blanc
 
devilish said:
valid players like Veron
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Veron valid? Gimme a break. A liability if there ever was one.
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
Stam is no more than a United legend than Yorke is, and I've seen you slag off Yorke

Double standards - you're full of them you muppet!
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Comparing Yorke with Stam is like saying that we should respect both Best and Charlton at the same way just because they both made us win the CL.

Stam was a professional and a red. He showed his loyalty to our cause by refusing to take his transfer commission just to sign for us and had always given his 101% to our cause. His loyalty remained unhindered even when he left us. When Lazio were passing from great financial problems Stam accepted the wage cut imposed by the Baraldi plan rather than join our direct rivals (Newcastle, Arsenal and Liverpool) were he could have seeked his private revenge on SAF. (He would have taken it if he would have signed with Arsenal)

Yorke was a great player but he had never showed any signs of sacrifice towards our team. He lived wildly, negatively influenced Cole (by motivating him to join a threesome and therefore betray his girlfriend) and missed several training sessions that ultimately ruined his career and therefore our investment set on him. Even Blanc turned to be more loyal to our cause than Yorke
 
Floyd said:
Veron valid? Gimme a break. A liability if there ever was one.
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A few months ago few would had said that. Would you have been one of them?

Veron experienced an average career at OT. Lethal in the CL and poor in EPL. Yet I agree with you, he never fullfilled the expectations set for him.
 
devilish said:
A few months ago few would had said that. Would you have been one of them?
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I think many was glad to see the back of him, but we thought he went rather cheap, especially after he showed positive signs at the USA tour. When we now see how he's been at Chelsea we see that United got the better end of that deal.
 
Could'nt agree more. We were always shifting goals. We were not half as good as we have been this year bar the Stuttgart hiccup. We were playing a much different type of football in Europe. I'm afraid we may have to resort to the same game plan as we had in 99, score, score score If we are going to survive in this years CL. We wont win it without Rio, yes he's that important to the team, so we may aswell go out with all guns blazing. Roll on the 5-4 results....

WeasteDevil said:
That is not the point, we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Especially after letting them score an away goal, a match only just saved by a Giggs goal in the 90th minute. Jesus, if it wasn't for some extraordinary attacking football, we wouldn't have lifted the cup.

Look at it, qualify second from the group with the second worse away goals numbers, draw at home by the skin of our teeth in the semi final, then go 2 down in the first 11 minutes of the second leg away, only then to go and score three. Come on, 95% of posters that night had probably given up come 20 minutes. It was not that defence that won us the European Cup, it was our fantastic attack.
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devilish said:
The biggest evidence that we missed Stam was that at one point we were undisputed champions with the title wrapped during the Easter festivities the season
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That'd be the season Stam only played 13 league games for us then...
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
:lol:

What on earth has that got to do with football????

Get a grip boy :rolleyes:
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Football is like work Boring. If someone has problems in his personal life than those problems would reflect in his work and that can be devastating when you are playing at the highest levels.

Cole (known as a good family man) forged a great friendship with Yorke. This friendship helped Yorke to settle down, and was the main strengths behind the Calypso boys. Yet when Yorke convinced Cole to join a threesome and the media caught them everything changed. Cole was devastated expecially when his GF was thinking of leaving him and things took settled down after that Cole promised that he will stay away from Yorke. This was the beginning of the end of the Calypso boys tandem.

I know this story particularly well because I have friends very close to SAF and SAF told them that he was concerned about Yorke’s attitude. SAF at time did his best to patch things up between Cole and his GF yet he knew that the damage was done and that this would reflected into their game.

And remember Boring SAF is never wrong. right?
 
devilish said:
Football is like work Boring. If someone has problems in his personal life than those problems would reflect in his work and that can be devastating when you are playing at the highest levels.

Cole (known as a good family man) forged a great friendship with Yorke. This friendship helped Yorke to settle down, and was the main strengths behind the Calypso boys. Yet when Yorke convinced Cole to join a threesome and the media caught them everything changed. Cole was devastated expecially when his GF was thinking of leaving him and things took settled down after that Cole promised that he will stay away from Yorke. This was the beginning of the end of the Calypso boys tandem.

I know this story particularly well because I have friends very close to SAF and SAF told them that he was concerned about Yorke’s attitude. SAF at time did his best to patch things up between Cole and his GF yet he knew that the damage was done and that this would reflected into their game.

And remember Boring SAF is never wrong. right?
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You idiot. Do you think Yorle forced him to do it???

Basically, Stam and Yorke had two excellent seasons for us, and one indifferent one. I couldn't care less what players do and say off the pitch.

If Cole was such a 'good family man' he wouldn't have shagged around. Nothing to do with Yorke.

Muppet!
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
You idiot. Do you think Yorle forced him to do it???

Basically, Stam and Yorke had two excellent seasons for us, and one indifferent one. I couldn't care less what players do and say off the pitch.

If Cole was such a 'good family man' he wouldn't have shagged around. Nothing to do with Yorke.

Muppet!
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That is your point of view but its not mine and thanks God not SAF’s point of view. SAF is not an idiot, he knew that Yorke’s behaviour would have hindered his form, that nowadays needs to be perfect for a player to play at those levels. Also being a Manchester United player, Yorke was always at the center of attention, and one mistake would had been easily identified and magnified by the media, something no manager would have liked. A player today is paid 30 – 40 even 100 grands a week and he has the responsibility to keep himself on tip form even if that means a sacrifice or two,

Cole wasn’t a child, but is still a human prone to fall under temptation.

BTW I wouldn’t judge as indifferent a season in which Stam was injured much of the time.
 
devilish said:
BTW I wouldn’t judge as indifferent a season in which Stam was injured much of the time.
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Devilish, devilish, slap, slap, slap!

It's history, he's gone, he isn't coming back! All of your dreaming and complaining isn't going to change jack shit!
 
An Extremely Boring Man said:
If players perform well, Sir Alex is likely to turn a blind eye to players off-field antics. Look at Robbo and Keano.
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:confused:

Robbo didn't drink??

;) :angel:

Think it was Tony Adams who said that Robbo was the only player bar himself that could drink more than 10 pints of beer and still play magnificantly the next day....??
 
Floyd said:
:confused:

Robbo didn't drink??

;) :angel:

Think it was Tony Adams who said that Robbo was the only player bar himself that could drink more than 10 pints of beer and still play magnificantly the next day....??
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Robbo could drink all night, get a few hours sleep and still turn up to training and be the one putting the most effort in.

And that comes from the horses mouth! (No, not Ruud!!!)
 
devilish said:
Yorke was a great player but he had never showed any signs of sacrifice towards our team. He lived wildly, negatively influenced Cole (by motivating him to join a threesome and therefore betray his girlfriend) and missed several training sessions that ultimately ruined his career and therefore our investment set on him. Even Blanc turned to be more loyal to our cause than Yorke
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i agree with most of what u say about Stam but Yorke turned down his signing fee to come to us also and rotted in the reserves before making his move away from the club
 
Lil Cee said:
i agree with most of what u say about Stam but Yorke turned down his signing fee to come to us also and rotted in the reserves before making his move away from the club
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I liked Yorke myself - loads of talent, & abilities - far better player than Cole, but alas, he met Jordan, & as they say, the rest is history! :annoyed:
 
Murt said:
What im doing is point out the stupidy of ppl who claim that if a big club is reportedly intrested in someone then he must be good.
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when ppl think a player's good, rumours that a big club's after him serve to reinforce their opinion. for someone like heskey, sorry but most ppl'll just laugh it off and simply disregard the rumour.
 
Floyd said:
:confused:

Robbo didn't drink??

;) :angel:

Think it was Tony Adams who said that Robbo was the only player bar himself that could drink more than 10 pints of beer and still play magnificantly the next day....??
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Today's football is different than the times when Robbo's plyed his trade. Football is faster, played at higher rythms and you have to be in tip top form to reach those high demands. Today (I know because my biggest mate happened to be Gaz, Phil and Becks escort whenever they used to come to Malta) our players are only allowed to drink (and in the summer) one pint of lager.
 
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