Ivan Perisic

[prtk0811]

One moment the man wants specialists, the next he wants multifunctional players, the next he wants to shoehorn players.

SPecialists are not always available and gettable.

 

[Redcy]

You're right, but I think the fact that we've moved on shows that we were never willing to pay anywhere near that fee for him. Some have reported that Perisic was a compromise in the first place and that he wasn't first choice, but Mourinho accepted getting him if it meant we improved other areas. We were probably alright with bidding up to £30/35m, but when Inter refused to budge, we moved on and started looking into Bale's situation. Mourinho has also been playing 5 at the back a fair bit in pre-season, but with Mourinho saying that he wants an attacking wide player, you're probably right in thinking that Mourinho wanted Perisic to play up front and not as a wing back.

Well if we are playing 5 at the back why do we need a LW? I can see where Jose thought process might be based on this pursuit initially (Perisic theoretically could play in 433 or 352 (maybe). who else would we have been after (if he wasnt first choice), was there some option I don't remember seeing. I suspect if he wants to play 5 at the back then a a proper LWB would be our only choice, not sure there are many pure LWB out there because so few people play with a WB at the top level.

 

[Oneunited26]

You can criticise him for being too defensive and for playing players out of position instead of recruiting a player with actual experience in said position. As in, you might not want United to play 3-5-2 but if we do then buy proper wingbacks instead of shoehorning a 28 year old who never played there.

I don't get how 352 is more defensive, if we got a proper wingback for 352, more secure at the back, it allows us to get the best out of pogba and herrera with matic holding, and 2 upfront with pogba and herrera to be more advanced, with the freedom of valencia and another wingback to support the front 2, its quiet attacking formation and allows more into the box, where with 433, you got to have a front 3 to be so devastating its difficult to even finding 3 forwards who can carry the torch

 

[prtk0811]

If we were to buy a wingback it would leave us with less offensive options, and a more defensive setup by default. You can't criticise Mourinho for being too defensive and criticise him for not buying a wingback.

Yep, An Winger converted into a wingback is more a goal threat that a Wingback who only stay wide and is not a goal threat and a better fit to play as a wingback because he can score as well.

 

[Brwned]

That wasn't my point though. I was saying that you don't spend £50 million on someone that's played the majority of their career as a winger to them play him in an unfamiliar role.

If we are adopting a 352 formation I'd rather we buy an actual wing back than have the round hole, square peg situation again.

What if we're not adopting a 352 formation? What if we want a 352 to be one of our options, a 433 to be another, a 442 to be another...in which case the versatility of the player becomes quite important.

You're left with a choice of getting someone like Alex Sandro, who can play as a left mid as a 442, and could probably play as a left winger in a 433, but it'd make the system very defensive by default. Instead you could go for someone like Persic, who has played in all three of those positions, and while he certainly isn't a specialist wingback he's a more natural fit for the role than a wingback would be for the wide attacker in a 433. It's also the more attacking option than choosing a wingback when we do play the 352 - something you've criticised Mourinho for not doing in this very thread.

There's not a lot of truth to your idea that you don't spent outrageous amounts of money to play someone out of position. Neymar was a #10 at Santos and is a #10 for Brazil but was put out on the wing by Barcelona. Bale's best position for club and country has obviously been as a #10, as he said himself, yet he was played out of position. Barcelona are likely to break the bank for Coutinho and play him out of position. The list goes on and on. The reality is that players are much more flexible than is often suggested. It was very easy to predict that Valencia would be a great wingback even when he was at his peak as a winger. The same is true of Perisic.

 

[Adisa]

I don't understand how this supports your point.

Mourinho didn't specify whether he wants a left or right winger.

 

[United Pro]

Well if we are playing 5 at the back why do we need a LW? I can see where Jose thought process might be based on this pursuit initially (Perisic theoretically could play in 433 or 352 (maybe). who else would we have been after (if he wasnt first choice), was there some option I don't remember seeing. I suspect if he wants to play 5 at the back then a a proper LWB would be our only choice, not sure there are many pure LWB out there because so few people play with a WB at the top level.

Well Perisic is quite versatile in that he can play on either wing, but he's also pretty solid defensively. And on a player we were after, there's little doubt we were after Griezmann even before Zlatan's injury, so there's a strong shout that Mourinho wanted Griezmann to partner Lukaku up front. The 352 formation would then work as it would allow Matic, Herrera and Pogba to play together as well as have 2 up front. Perhaps Perisic was seen as a budget, versatile alternative for Griezmann, while also being able to fill in other positions. Mourinho said he wanted “An attacking player, especially who can play through the wings to give me also more attacking options”, so that doesn't sound like he wants a wing back.

 

[Ainu]

You can criticise him for being too defensive and for playing players out of position instead of recruiting a player with actual experience in said position. As in, you might not want United to play 3-5-2 but if we do then buy proper wingbacks instead of shoehorning a 28 year old who never played there.

That only makes sense if you believe that 3-5-2 will be our long-term, main system instead of a tactical option. What does make a whole lot of sense is having a player who can play the winger role to a high standard and is flexible enough to play the wingback role to an adequate standard as well. It's all a bit academic anyway, people are too obsessed with formations and positions.

 

[Redcy]

Hmm I don't know that I agree Perisic was seen as a Griezmann alternative. I think with no Griezmann we would look at Martial/Rashford/Mkhi/Lingard. I though the wing attacking option was a shout to his abililty to play a few roles there (maybe with varied degrees of competence).

 

[Adnan]

Really? I was under the assumption that he is fully two-feeted and has a good cross with both of his feet. If that is not the case, the value of getting him decreases dramaticly for me.

You're right

 

[redIndianDevil]

Yep, An Winger converted into a wingback is more a goal threat that a Wingback who only stay wide and is not a goal threat and a better fit to play as a wingback because he can score as well.

This is not correct. Just replacing a defender with an attacker won't result in much goal threat. A good wingback knows when to commit to attack and when to defend, whereas a winger playing as a wingback lacks the defensive nous and either attacks way too much and ends up leaving space for a counter attack or just stops contributing to attack properly in order to cope up with the defensive responsibilities.

 

[redIndianDevil]

What if we're not adopting a 352 formation? What if we want a 352 to be one of our options, a 433 to be another, a 442 to be another...in which case the versatility of the player becomes quite important.

You're left with a choice of getting someone like Alex Sandro, who can play as a left mid as a 442, and could probably play as a left winger in a 433, but it'd make the system very defensive by default. Instead you could go for someone like Persic, who has played in all three of those positions, and while he certainly isn't a specialist wingback he's a more natural fit for the role than a wingback would be for the wide attacker in a 433. It's also the more attacking option than choosing a wingback when we do play the 352 - something you've criticised Mourinho for not doing in this very thread.

There's not a lot of truth to your idea that you don't spent outrageous amounts of money to play someone out of position. Neymar was a #10 at Santos and is a #10 for Brazil but was put out on the wing by Barcelona. Bale's best position for club and country has obviously been as a #10, as he said himself, yet he was played out of position. Barcelona are likely to break the bank for Coutinho and play him out of position. The list goes on and on. The reality is that players are much more flexible than is often suggested. It was very easy to predict that Valencia would be a great wingback even when he was at his peak as a winger. The same is true of Perisic.

All the examples you gave Neymar, Bale, Coutinho are all inside forwards, they are not like Perisic and don't play like traditional wingers(except may be Bale), so they aren't exactly playing out of position.

 

[Brwned]

All the examples you gave Neymar, Bale, Coutinho are all inside forwards, they are not like Perisic and don't play like traditional wingers(except may be Bale), so they aren't exactly playing out of position.

The difference between a wingback and an orthodox winger isn't any greater than the difference between a #10 and an inside forward, hence why the likes of Moses, Valencia, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc. are occupying that role with relative comfort.

 

[Adnan]

If we were to buy a wingback it would leave us with less offensive options, and a more defensive setup by default. You can't criticise Mourinho for being too defensive and criticise him for not buying a wingback.

Exactly this

Perisic wouldn't have a problem playing LWB in my opinion. I actually think he'd excell in that role. He'd offer tactical flexibility which is what Mourinho wants. Perisic is also a very good player and would improve our team.

 

[Ainu]

This is not correct. Just replacing a defender with an attacker won't result in much goal threat. A good wingback knows when to commit to attack and when to defend, whereas a winger playing as a wingback lacks the defensive nous and either attacks way too much and ends up leaving space for a counter attack or just stops contributing to attack properly in order to cope up with the defensive responsibilities.

That's a gross generalisation that doesn't necessarily reflect any particular player.

 

[Stacks]

You are right, he is.

He also plays like a conventional winger - running the touchline and going outside the full-back.

On an average season in his career, he hasn't created much from his crosses in both chances for his teammates and assists. What is so good about his left foot crossing?

 

[DannyCAFC]

I'm assuming this is off and Mourinho is probably settled on his squad for the new season now, realistically I don't know who else brings the type of qualities Perisic does, assuming he's looking for a particular type of wide-man (a more traditional winger who provides width and puts in crosses, and has the physicality and willingness to contribute defensively).

Lemar and Bale are the only other players who can/could play LW who string to mind, and neither really fit that criteria and it would probably be a waste on both of their natural games to play them as out-and-out wingers anyway.

Other than that, might make sense to go for an attacking LB who can prevent width outside of Martial like an Alex Sandro, but not necessarily sure Mourinho would be willing to splash £60m on him and give up on Shaw just yet.

 

[Saf94]

They were cases of utilising what they already had Within there squads though.

You don't buy a £50 million winger and then play him out of position.

What's wrong in just buying an actual wing back?

Buying players and playing them out of position is a stupid habit that we have gotten into in recent years.

If we did that we still would have no wingers in our squad. If we get Perisic not only do we have a very good winger who can play left wing and right wing but also a very solid option for wingback. He has all the qualities to play there so it's worth investing in him, we'll need to switch between 4atb and 3atb during the season so we need a proper winger anyway

 

[Cliche Guevara]

On an average season in his career, he hasn't created much from his crosses in both chances for his teammates and assists. What is so good about his left foot crossing?

He does it?

 

[Adnan]

Perisic left foot cross just recently.

 

[K2K]

If we could sign an attacking minded, and dependable LB, we could go a long way in resolving our problems.

Darmian offers nothing from an attacking sense, and Shaw is injury prone and defensively suspect a lot of times.

That for being is one of our biggest problems, Perisic or not.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

If we could sign an attacking minded, and dependable LB, we could go a long way in resolving our problems.

Darmian offers nothing from an attacking sense, and Shaw is injury prone and defensively suspect a lot of times.

That for being is one of our biggest problems, Perisic or not.

Although I think we have to bear in mind Jose usually likes his left-back to be fairly static, and use a conventional left-winger.

 

[K2K]

Although I think we have to bear in mind Jose usually likes his left-back to be fairly static, and use a conventional left-winger.

That is just another thing the CAF has convinced itself like a number of Jose myths. Jose has lamented a number of times how weak our leftbacks where from an attacking sense.

Jose unlike some managers usually isnt a slave to some managerial dogma. Hes done thing differently at a number of clubs he has been.

 

[Siorac]

Although I think we have to bear in mind Jose usually likes his left-back to be fairly static, and use a conventional left-winger.

The last conventional left winger he used was probably Duff. Hazard, Ronaldo, Pandev... none of them is a traditional winger.

 

[CG1010]

We lack width on the left hand side of the pitch, not the right. Obviously as you don't seem to grasp this, there is no further point in this debate. You believe what you like and I'll judge what I see on the pitch and the players we're looking at the solve the problems.

A full back providing width is not the same as a winger who stays wide. Perisic offers us the latter and that can help us by forcing an opposition full back wide and creating gaps between them and their CBs for our talented players to exploit. If that's the plan then having a right sided winger also could work. None of know what exactly is Jose thinking but it does no harm to discuss different hypothesis. Only if you stopped being a condescending asshole.

 

[Nighteyes]

People literally making it up as they go along in this thread. We're now told that a player who never plays Wing Back is now the perfect and indeed the only option for that position. They assume this because Perisic is a hard working winger, a fact that they've assumed on the basis of Jose's interest in the player. Of course, none of this is actually true.

 

[Redcy]

People literally making it up as they go along in this thread. We're now told that a player who never plays Wing Back is now the perfect and indeed the only option for that position. They assume this because Perisic is a hard working winger, a fact that they've assumed on the basis of Jose's interest in the player. Of course, none of this is actually true.

Now who's building a straw man? I don't think anyone thinks he is the perfect option for that position, nor has anyone really said he is the only option. What people have said is that if Jose is thinking of being tactically malleable then Perisic could be seen as an answer to that. If we bought a LWB or a LW we would be relying on either Shaw/Darmian to play as a LWB, something which neither of them have done, with only showing Shaw really showing any aptitude for it. Or we a reliant on Martial/Lingard as our LW option. There is no way we are buying a LW and a LB. Of course we are speculating as to why Jose would go for a player like Perisic when there are other players available, and it seems that he could see Perisic as capable of filling both roles.

If of course we are only ever playing 433, then there are lots of LW, if we are playing 352 there are probably some, but fewer, options.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

That is just another thing the CAF has convinced itself like a number of Jose myths. Jose has lamented a number of times how weak our leftbacks where from an attacking sense.

Yeah, he probably would in a situation where there's no suitable winger.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Could Emre Mor be signed as a like for like replacement for Perisic?

 

[Saf94]

People literally making it up as they go along in this thread. We're now told that a player who never plays Wing Back is now the perfect and indeed the only option for that position. They assume this because Perisic is a hard working winger, a fact that they've assumed on the basis of Jose's interest in the player. Of course, none of this is actually true.

So Victor Moses and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain can play wingback but to suggest Perisic could play there is nonsense? Plenty of hardworking wingers have done well at wingback. And if you doubt Perisic is hardworking, here's a quote from the man himself (link: http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-soccer-world-croatia-perisic-idUKKBN0EE1I620140603)

"Olic runs like an 18-year-old, has the passion of an understudy and the hunger of a player in the early stages of his career," Perisic said.

"I heard a lot about his commitment before I broke into the national team some years ago but only after I had seen him in action did I realize how much harder I had to work and change my habits in order to be even close to him.

"He became my role model and broadened my horizons at a crucial stage of my career, thus helping me choose the right path."

He literally models himself after Ivica Olic...

 

[Cliche Guevara]

The last conventional left winger he used was probably Duff. Hazard, Ronaldo, Pandev... none of them is a traditional winger.

I'm sure if you inherit those players then you're more than happy to play them.

 

[Nighteyes]

So Victor Moses and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain can play wingback but to suggest Perisic could play there is nonsense?

To suggest that Perisic is the best wing back available or the only one is indeed nonsense which is what some have claimed on this thread.

Buying a 50m winger to play him at wing back is moronic and a hell of a lot different to trying out new positions for players you already have. Thankfully, we don't seem to be entertaining such nonsensical ideas.

 

[K2K]

To suggest that Perisic is the best wing back available or the only one is indeed nonsense which is what some have claimed on this thread.

Buying a 50m winger to play him at wing back is moronic and a hell of a lot different to trying out new positions for players you already have. Thankfully, we don't seem to be entertaining such nonsensical ideas.

Bingo

Harsh but true.

For that price, we might as well sign a proper wingback.

 

[Saf94]

To suggest that Perisic is the best wing back available or the only one is indeed nonsense which is what some have claimed on this thread.

Buying a 50m winger to play him at wing back is moronic and a hell of a lot different to trying out new positions for players you already have. Thankfully, we don't seem to be entertaining such nonsensical ideas.

Sorry I'm not suggesting we buy him to purely play left wingback. We do actually need a winger as well, I really don't think we will only play 352 all season. If we're going to switch between a 433/4231 and a 352 then out of all the players who can play on both wings and potentially wingback yes Perisic is the best option. Why spend 100m+ on two players when you can get 1 player to do the job. It's not like there's a ton of top wingbacks out there that are available for us to sign (we've been linked with Rose who would be extremely difficult to sign) and besides we have Shaw to come back too.

So in terms of our current situation, to spend 50m on a player who could effectively cover 3 positions pretty well is a good deal in my opinion. Even if he can't play wingback he'll do very well as a winger in a 4atb and he'll offer us a lot of options tactically so there's a lot of value in bringing him in.

 

[Nighteyes]

So in terms of our current situation, to spend 50m on a player who could effectively cover 3 positions pretty well is a good deal in my opinion. Even if he can't play wingback he'll do very well as a winger in a 4atb and he'll offer us a lot of options tactically so there's a lot of value in bringing him in.

He's ok at best on the right, not a wing back and not exactly great on the left wing either. And we definitely do not lack players who can play on the left.

I fail to see what it is he offers tactically that's so valuable. We should have bought in an attacking LB in. Shaw is never fit and when fit not rated all that highly. We don't really need left winger unless it's someone like Bale who could really elevate the team.

 

[Saf94]

He's ok at best on the right, not a wing back and not exactly great on the left wing either. And we definitely do not lack players who can play on the left.

I fail to see what it is he offers tactically that's so valuable. We should have bought in an attacking LB in. Shaw is never fit and when fit not rated all that highly. We don't really need left winger unless it's someone like Bale who could really elevate the team.

I've posted this so many times now so I'm just going to copy and paste one of my previous responses to this question

The reason Martial and Rashford didn't play wide is because they aren't wingers... What would they do if they took the ball to the byline on their left foot? They aren't going to cross it are they? They'd just turn around and pass or square up to the defender and try to take them on. Actually good evidence of this is the Barca game pre-season, when Rashford played on the right we actually did have very good width because he was able to take the defender on the outside and that gave us a lot of space in the pockets in the middle of the pitch. Rashford never does that on the left because he isn't good with his left foot. Now take this example from a pre-season game of Perisic (skip to 1:58) to see exactly what I'm talking about. This is what he could bring that we don't have right now on the left side, if you've got guys who can do that then teams can't defend deep and narrow because they'll just get exploited by the crosses on the outside



The issue is you aren't seeing the bigger picture of the tactical importance of a wide winger on the left side. It's not that Perisic himself will score or assist 15/20 goals. It's that he will bring another element to our attack that can cause new problems and issues for the opposition defence. Last season our team was only threatening through the middle, no one was doing anything productive out wide expect possibly Valencia, but even he rarely put in a good cross which we could score from. If we add another element to our attack, someone dangerous from wide on the outside and who can put dangerous deliveries in, it's not just an option to score from those crosses but also to force the defenders into pulling out wide and making them think about new and different problems. This all helps to unsettle the defence and make the middle less congested or rigid and allow our central players more space and opportunity in dangerous areas to score or create chances.

In addition to the above, he offers us the tactical flexibility to switch between 433/4231 and 352/343. The fact that he could possibly play both roles is huge, it allows us to adapt even on the fly during games when things aren't going well. It makes us more unpredictable and adaptable which can be the difference between drawing and winning those key games. It's not just about how much he can contribute himself but also about the fact that he can play positions/roles we don't have now means we can play different positions/shapes.

 

[Nighteyes]

I've posted this so many times now so I'm just going to copy and paste one of my previous responses to this question



In addition to the above, he offers us the tactical flexibility to switch between 433/4231 and 352/343. The fact that he could possibly play both roles is huge, it allows us to adapt even on the fly during games when things aren't going well. It makes us more unpredictable and adaptable which can be the difference between drawing and winning those key games. It's not just about how much he can contribute himself but also about the fact that he can play positions/roles we don't have now means we can play different positions/shapes.

While the lack of width is a problem the answer is certainly not to sign a player who's no better than what we already have. Martial is a top draw talent that we're lucky to have in our squad and we should utilize his strengths not replace them with an inferior player. And besides, Martial does cross the ball. It's just not the only thing he does. Get a good quality attacking left back in or play Luke Shaw. That will provide us with the width we need down the left.

 

[vanderpants]

After watching this shower tonight , buy him for whatever inter demand !!

 

[Keeps It tidy]

After watching this shower tonight , buy him for whatever inter demand !!

Because he is the player that would make the difference against Real.

 

[BluesJr]

After watching this shower tonight , buy him for whatever inter demand !!

Please stop.