The killing of innocent children on a beach was enough for me to know who the bigger evil is.
What a mess.
What a mess.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
What if the Romani people wanted a homeland? How would we deal with that? Would we just let them establish a homeland like the Jewish people did or would we have learned anything at all from what's happened?
Would we actually design a process where the local people were consulted and maybe even have a vote on it?
Yes it's easy because it's so obvious. Don't kill innocent children.
During Zionism movement Jewish people purchased land in the area, essentially because of antsemitic activities. They didn't infiltrate in true sense. The conflict then set in motion resulting in war which was initiated by Arab states.
I dont see how comparing with Romani people is proper analogy here.
The vast majority of Jews entering the region were doing so illegally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939
The Arab community were promised that Jewish immigration to the region would be limited for 5 years and the Arabs would have the final say on the numbers after that.
So promises made to the Arabs(by the British not the Jews of course) were broken.
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A peace agreement which ends the conflict with neighbouring Jewish and Palestinian-Arab states. Plain and simple.
So as long as there ceases to be a peace agreement between Jewish and Arab states, unarmed Palestinian children being killed is fair game then?
I have people on my facebook account arguing for both sides, which to be honest is probably the best place (except the caf) to get news. One side posts the horror that is happening in Palestine and are begging for this to stop. The other side are saying that this genocide is okay, because America and British do it all the time anyway and because Hamas started it.
It kind of makes me sick what goes through the minds of the people posting articles arguing that this is okay...
Not the past week, but since the 1948 is the modern day holocaust.
It kind of makes me sick what goes through the minds of the people posting articles arguing that this is okay...
Not the past week, but since the 1948 is the modern day holocaust.
And had Hamas's heavily armed tunnel commandos managed to massacre that kibbutz yesterday how would you feel re the bigger evil?
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I think it was already established couple of pages before that he doesn't give a flying feck about innocents childrens getting killed for the sake of establishment of jewish homeland.
In contrast with several other posters here, I'm sure you have the capability to understand what I mean. As long as Israel is.not accepted as an independent Jewish state in the region it will have to fight defensive wars. In these wars civilian deaths are an inevitability.
It's odd that you find satisfaction in twisting my words. Quite weekend?
F*cking hell
What happen if in the future the Jewish population of Israel falls to less than 50%? What if it even fell to 60%? I know its unlikely but if it did would you start kicking non-Jewish people out?
There is a Jewish homeland. There are children in that Jewish homeland and they are often targeted by the Palestinians (and Lebanese). It's the reponsibility of the state to keep those kids safe, and when they're being fired at from residential areas that's where the IDF will shoot back. Common sense backed by international law.
Not gonna happen. Assuming you are from the UK, what would you do if Muslims became the majority where you live? Kick them out?
Anyhow, we even keep Ihab here so I doubt there'll be deportations though.
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Sorry mate but being in Manchester, Facebook is a good portal to have both sides of the argument rather than listening to biased news on tv.
Would you trust football transfer news you get on Facebook?
Everyone should read this article. I posted it earlier but I think the 8 paragraph message scared most readers away. In my eyes, it is the most honest piece that I have read on the conflict so far. Worth your five minutes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/o...p-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/o...p-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region
Bad question. Had the Buk missile marginally missed the plane yesterday would you not have condemned them?
50-60% of civilian deaths cannot be considered collateral damage.
Not by firing at your enemies' kids and please don't defend that. Have some empathy.
As an outsider, I see a total lack of empathy from both sides. Civilian deaths to this extent on any side should not be considered inevitability. As someone posted earlier IDF, is considered one of the best strategic units in the world and yet we see so many of civilian deaths?. Why?
Just playing devil's advocate, not intending to come across as twisting your rhetoric.
I understand that civilian deaths are an unfortunate ordinariness of war, though haven't grim statistics shown that many innocents have died outside of periods of crossfire between the two factions? Or are you suggesting this war has been in permanent state for 60 years now, thus anyone who's died since then has been a casualty of war?
You're assuming that only the killing of innocent children swayed my position.
When in fact, on top of everything that has occurred, this pushes me in one direction.
We can go on all day about who's to blame, but from where I'm looking at it, I'm leaning toward Israel, their methods, their agenda and their government handling this incorrectly.
You and others will disagree. I have no problem with that. Whatever question you have next won't make a difference, and most likely lead us in circles discussing this issue.
That is my view on the situation that has recently occurred.
My view on occupation, two state solutions and religiosity in this conflict is completely different.
I don't disagree with your views in general, just that question.
Yes, 4 childrens playing on the beach getting murdered proves exactly that.
Your numbers are made up. Are they from Facebook too? Would you automatically adopt figures from Palestinian sources. Even if those were the figures, they'd be better than what the US/UK armies did in Iraq. The IDF record is far better than theirs in this respect, and to the best of my knowledge neither was under attack from Basra and Fallujah.
I have more empathy than most of you to civilians casualties here. There have been an estimated 150,000 deaths in three years in Syria. Most of the empathizing folk here either didn't make the relevant thread or expressed support for Assad. You don't give two shits about the Palestinians.
Israeli civilians are being fired at from within residential areas in one of the most densely populated spots in the world. What would you have done if you were responsible for their safety?
He is wrong. It isn't 50-60%. Its more like 80% according to the UN.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-Gaza-are-civilians/articleshow/38577299.cms
Indeed. Had I perhaps worded the comment better, the question need not be asked, so I apologise for that.
I, like anyone else here (hopefully) find the death of children or innocent people on any side, deplorable and disgusting.
What is telling is the response from the Israel government blaming the deaths of these four children, who could be seen for miles on end by the technology they have, on Hammas not accepting a truce.
Mistaken identity? Long shot.
Apologise and condemn the attacks? Might help. Did they? No. They placed the blame on Palestinians.
The lack of remorse, empathy, sympathy swings my vote.
The point I was making was that Pro-Israel are defending the brutality whereas the rest just want this to stop...
This was what my original post was stating. Pro-Israel arguments are just comparisons with US/ UK. Just because UK/UK did it doesn't make it right. In fact it just highlights the cruel world of big rich countries bullying the poor ones.
I am sure that there have been incidents of "unnecessary" deaths in the conflict. There bound to be instances of reckless behaviour and use of excessive force during such a long violent conflict. I have to admit that I find discussing those with people who deny Israel's right to exist a complete waste of time. As long as my enemies question my right for existence anything I do is a defensive measure.
This makes me sick
It doesn't help when a party of government doesn't want the Palestinians to have a state. A government minister opposes the setting up of a Palestinian state. So major players on both sides still have a problem with the others right to a homeland.
Naftali Bennett-Israeli government minister.
So the cycle just will continue forever at this rate.
Sorry, I was wrong.Because it has increased from the earlier reports.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/15/israelpalestine-unlawful-israeli-airstrikes-kill-civilians
Are you saying that HRW is an biased source now??
You don't seem to show that. When we are talking about kids dying on the beach, you just ignore them as collateral damage and criticise Hamas for
it. Do you think IDF has Zero responsibility for Palestinian civilians??
I understand Civilian damages are unavoidable. But the number of these damages, suggests that the IDF doesn't care about who they kill.
I may be wrong or I am sorry if I missed it. But did IDF or Isreali authorities express their condolences to the kids killed in the beach the other day??
Agreed. I'd like to think every human being believes so.
No, it's not. It highlights the fact that the best equipped armies in the world can not avoid civilian casualties when fighting in urban areas. Add tothat the fact that Israel's wars are at its doorstep, and coincide with a barrage of rockets on its populated areas.
They did express their condolences and said that they would investigate further. They then reported that the strikes were linked to hamas militants.
Can I get a link please. Cant seem to find any.
Of course. But how did the Israelis react?
Blaming the victims.
This is what angers me.
No, it won't. The Israeli public wants peace, and Bennett will only be a vocal opposition leader if the Palestinians opt for peace.