Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

Israelis Watch Bombs Drop on Gaza From Front-Row Seats

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Last Wednesday night, as he stood on a hilltop outside the Israeli town of Sderot and watched the bombardment of Gaza on the plain below, a Danish newspaper reporter snapped an iPhone photo of about a dozen locals who cheered on their military from plastic chairs while eating popcorn.

Allan Sørensen, a veteran Middle East correspondent for Denmark’s Kristeligt Dagblad, then uploaded the image to Twitter with a sardonic caption that described the macabre scene as “Sderot cinema.”

The image of the Israeli spectators was taken after 9 p.m. local time on Wednesday, the reporter said, about the same time that what was intended to be a “precision strike” from Israel’s military killed at least eight of their Palestinian neighbors, seated in similar plastic chairs at a beachside cafe in Gaza, waiting to watch the World Cup semifinal between Argentina and the Netherlands.

As his image reverberated around the social network, where it was shared more than 10,000 times, the reporter was surprised by the response. It was, he said in a telephone interview from Israel, “nothing new.” Similar scenes, of Israeli spectators gathered on the high ground above Gaza to view the destruction below, were documented in a Times of London article and a video report from Denmark’s TV2 during Operation Cast Lead in 2009.

Explaining that he has also previously witnessed Palestinians cheering news of bombings that killed Israelis, Mr. Sørensen said that, in a war, “this is what happens.” Civilians and fighters on both sides, he said, “go through a process of dehumanizing the enemy.”

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Despite the willingness of some residents to stand in the open watching the war unfold, Sderot is well within range of rockets launched by Islamist militants in Gaza and has been hit in recent days.

When he was a candidate for the American presidency in 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama visited the town and saluted “the brave citizens” of Sderot while standing in front of a collection of spent rockets that had been fired at them from Gaza. He was also presented with an “I Love Sderot” T-shirt that channeled the dark humor of the residents, with the image of a heart on its front pierced by a rocket.

While some partisans of Israel on Twitter accused the Danish reporter of fabrication, the same scene, captured in photographs by several other journalists in recent days, was also witnessed by Mr. Sørensen’s colleague Nikolaj Krak, who wrote: “The hill has been transformed into something that most closely resembles the front row of a reality war theater. It offers a direct view of the densely populated Gaza Strip. People have dragged camping chairs and sofas to the top of the hill. Several sit with crackling bags of popcorn, while others smoke hookahs and talk cheerfully.”

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When the bombs find their targets, Mr. Krak reported, “cheers break out on the hill, followed by solid applause.”

Mr. Sørensen, who stressed that he has “a complete understanding of what the people of Sderot have been going through for 14 years,” attributed the particularly vitriolic response to his Twitter report to the climate in Israel since three young religious students were kidnapped and murdered in the occupied West Bank last month. The journalist called the “extreme incitement to violence from very right-wing Israeli groups unprecedented” in the many years he has been reporting from the region.

The Israeli blogger David Sheen reported that a far-right rally in Jerusalem on Monday was marked by calls to kill Arabs and send Jews opposed to the bombardment to Gaza.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/w...s-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html?_r=0
 
Be ironic if a rocket landed on them whilst they celebrate bombs dropping on the Palestinians
 
Well, it's hardly a disaster in my case. Between Iron Dome and the safe room it's not exactly a case of living in fear or something like that, as chances of anything happening are small. Anyhow, it's the people who live closer to Gaza who are in the real mess. They've been dealing with this for up to 14 years, they have less protection (limits of Iron Dome), and they are bombarded far more.

But one way or the other, it's not a way to live.

You compare that for what the people of Gaza go through? fecking hell man.
 
You compare that for what the people of Gaza go through? fecking hell man.

Bizarrely, the Gazans seem to be having a choice - stop firing rockets and shit and misery of this magnitude will not happen. Do you not ever wonder why there are no airstrikes against the West Bank?
 
You compare that for what the people of Gaza go through? fecking hell man.

No, I don't. But just because their life is hell, doesn't make the life of people in Israel a rose garden. Yeah, we have good protection because the govenment in Israel takes care of that while Hamas is only interesting in attack weapons. But it's not full proof and whenever one of those rockets flies through the air - dozens of times a day - you never know if it's going to land on your head.

It's really funny that Iron Dome, that has saved many lives, is also a hinderance to Israel explaining our situation to the world. It would have been so much simpler if we had more than one person dead so far.
 
So why doesn't it lob rockets to Egypt? Doesn't make sense.

Without trying to put too fine a point on it, Egypt hasn't pushed them out of the land their families have lived on for hundreds of years and subjected them to a military occupation of the little land they have left.
 
Exactly. Throw peas at my kids and there are watermelons coming your way.

I get that this is a response that people have in a visceral immediate way, but surely you have to realize what is actually going on. The whole point of the shield is that the threat of these rockets is drastically minimized. Whereas Gaza doesn't have a missile shield and the rockets that Israel is firing are actually finding their targets and they are killing Palestinians, a nonzero number of whom are civilians. Who knows what the answer is to solve the conflict but I'm confident it doesn't require Israel to kill more and more innocent civilians.
 
Without trying to put too fine a point on it, Egypt hasn't pushed them out of the land their families have lived on for hundreds of years and subjected them to a military occupation of the little land they have left.

Well, life in Gaza between 1948-1967 must have been paradise.

BTW, where did you get that hundreds of years figure from?
 
I get that this is a response that people have in a visceral immediate way, but surely you have to realize what is actually going on. The whole point of the shield is that the threat of these rockets is drastically minimized. Whereas Gaza doesn't have a missile shield and the rockets that Israel is firing are actually finding their targets and they are killing Palestinians, a nonzero number of whom are civilians. Who knows what the answer is to solve the conflict but I'm confident it doesn't require Israel to kill more and more innocent civilians.

The Israeli government has a responsibility to stop the rocket firing targeting its civilians. When those rockets are fired at civilians (war crime) from populated areas (war crime) then targeting the launchers results in the unintentional killing of uninvolved civilians.

It's true that Gaza doesn't have a missile defense shield, and I maintain that Israel has every right to retaliate as if it doesn't have one either. Although it provides our leadership more flexibility, as the end of the day it doesn't have to apologize for the development of that unique defensive system that crippled the terrorists' strategic rocket arm.
 
The Israeli government has a responsibility to stop the rocket firing targeting its civilians. When those rockets are fired at civilians (war crime) from populated areas (war crime) then targeting the launchers results in the unintentional killing of uninvolved civilians.

It's true that Gaza doesn't have a missile defense shield, and I maintain that Israel has every right to retaliate as if it doesn't have one either. Although it provides our leadership more flexibility, as the end of the day it doesn't have to apologize for the development of that unique defensive system that crippled the terrorists' strategic rocket arm.

They don't have to apologize for developing it. They should be happy to have it. And because of that, they should engage in a more proportionate response. If someone tries to mug me on the street, I don't get to respond by shooting up the whole block.
 
Well, life in Gaza between 1948-1967 must have been paradise.

BTW, where did you get that hundreds of years figure from?

Most of the people in the Gaza Strip now weren't even alive when that happened. Israelis are there right now knocking on the door at 2am and taking pictures of where the kids sleep in each house - it's a lot more immediate than an occupation 50 years ago. Of course the overall picture is very very far from that simple, but surely you can see why people there are desperate and angry right now? Cause I tell you something, if someone knocked on my door at 3am tonight and took me to a military detention facility, then kicked my entire neighbourhood out of where we've been living, I can assure you that my response would not be 'Jolly good old bean, I see that your god promised you my land so that makes this all fair'.
 
But they are getting supplies through Israel, aren't they? What types of supplies are they after that can't go through Israel?

Who is providing the Gazans with electricity, fuel and drinking water when they're firing rockets at Israeli civilians? The Egyptians?
Oh how fecking generous of you. Those people in Gaza don't realise just how fecking generous Israel is. You mean you're providing this, all the whilst you bomb the living hell out of Gaza, what's the death toll count at right now? 180-3?

Let me ask you this HR, if roles were reversed and you had terrorists on your side and you saw your friends and family being blown up as collateral damage? What would you do? Keep in mind that Israelis feel justified the killing of hundreds due to the threat of death, just how violent would you reaction be, if god forbid, 100s started dying on your side?
 
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Oh how fecking generous of you. Those people in Gaza don't realise just how fecking generous Israel is. You mean you're providing this, all the whilst you bomb the living hell out of Gaza, what's the death toll count at right now? 180-3?

Let me ask you this HR, if roles were reversed and you had terrorists on your side and you saw your friends and family being blown up as collator all damage? What would you do? Keep in mind that Israeli's feel justified the killing of hundreds due to the threat of death, just how violent would you reaction be, if god forbid, 100s started dying on your side?
Read a few hours ago, death toll up to 196
 
My heart breaks for those poor people stuck in that hell hole. Not a single Arab Muslim country gives a toss about Gaza, the truth is, the suffering people of Gaza are used as a propaganda tool by the likes of Iran to stir up hatred against Jews. Absolute scum bags, the lot of them, so much for caring for their Muslim brethren.
 
Most of the people in the Gaza Strip now weren't even alive when that happened. Israelis are there right now knocking on the door at 2am and taking pictures of where the kids sleep in each house - it's a lot more immediate than an occupation 50 years ago. Of course the overall picture is very very far from that simple, but surely you can see why people there are desperate and angry right now? Cause I tell you something, if someone knocked on my door at 3am tonight and took me to a military detention facility, then kicked my entire neighbourhood out of where we've been living, I can assure you that my response would not be 'Jolly good old bean, I see that your god promised you my land so that makes this all fair'.

Israelis have not ben knocking on doors in Gaza for almost a decade now.
 
Why don't they just invade and take it over? That's their plan for over a decade now. Why do they feel the need to massacre civilians instead? I don't understand.
 
They don't have to apologize for developing it. They should be happy to have it. And because of that, they should engage in a more proportionate response. If someone tries to mug me on the street, I don't get to respond by shooting up the whole block.

No, it shouldn't respond proportionally at all. A proportionate response would be using whatever measures necessary to maximize the death toll on the other side. Mayor Bloomberg had another interesting point regarding that done-to-death "proportional response" argument:

 
Why knock and check who's in, when you can just bomb them, isn't that right HR? Saves time I guess.

We bomb people targeting our homes with rockets. We don't need to apologize to anyone. We don't do world tours bombing the shit out of people living 1000's of miles away from home, killing 100,000s.
 
Why don't they just invade and take it over? That's their plan for over a decade now. Why do they feel the need to massacre civilians instead? I don't understand.

You certainly don't. There's only so much Facebook can do for you.
 
We bomb people targeting our homes with rockets. We don't need to apologize to anyone. We don't do world tours bombing the shit out of people living 1000's of miles away from home, killing 100,000s.
You also kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the process you heartless prick. Your 'defence force' uses a method that is guaranteed to caused collateral damage. The lack of empathy you people have for them is staggering. Why don't you reply to my post before asking you what you'd do if roles were reversed?
 
Oh how fecking generous of you. Those people in Gaza don't realise just how fecking generous Israel is. You mean you're providing this, all the whilst you bomb the living hell out of Gaza, what's the death toll count at right now? 180-3?

Let me ask you this HR, if roles were reversed and you had terrorists on your side and you saw your friends and family being blown up as collateral damage? What would you do? Keep in mind that Israelis feel justified the killing of hundreds due to the threat of death, just how violent would you reaction be, if god forbid, 100s started dying on your side?

Ask Bob who just came in. Those terrorists are the democratically-elected government of Gaza. Browse the various threads on this issue to see that the same folk bashing Israel here welcomed Hamas taking over the GS from the corrupt Fatah years ago.

If the roles were reversed there would have been no collateral damage. The Arabs attacking Israel don't target military targets in the first place.
 
We bomb people targeting our homes with rockets. We don't need to apologize to anyone. We don't do world tours bombing the shit out of people living 1000's of miles away from home, killing 100,000s.
This deflection trick of yours of always bringing or highlighting other wars when Israel's use of disproportionate use of force is mentioned is irrelevant and getting boring.
 
You also kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the process you heartless prick. Your 'defence force' uses a method that is guaranteed to caused collateral damage. The lack of empathy you people have for them is staggering. Why don't you reply to my post before asking you what you'd do if roles were reversed?

 
No, it shouldn't respond proportionally at all. A proportionate response would be using whatever measures necessary to maximize the death toll on the other side. Mayor Bloomberg had another interesting point regarding that done-to-death "proportional response" argument:



What is Israel's goal? I don't see why it should be to "maximize the death toll on the other side".
 
You certainly don't. There's only so much Facebook can do for you.
Oh facebook? My mistake, I must have read about the illegal settlements on Facebook. Nevermind, carry on. The truth is, your country only pulls this shit as it knows well that Israel is the only ally to the west in the Middle East, your response to Hamas' rockets would be a hell of a lot more measured if the US wasn't heavily bankrolling and backing you.

FYI, I'm not anti Semitic, I appreciate just how much Jewish people have contributed to the world, especially in the world of science but to see you defend the actions of Israel to the degree that you do, is appalling.
 
Ask Bob who just came in. Those terrorists are the democratically-elected government of Gaza. Browse the various threads on this issue to see that the same folk bashing Israel here welcomed Hamas taking over the GS from the corrupt Fatah years ago.

If the roles were reversed there would have been no collateral damage. The Arabs attacking Israel don't target military targets in the first place.

Why do you claim Israel is the only democracy in the region?
 
Israelis have not ben knocking on doors in Gaza for almost a decade now.

The Australian Youtube doc posted on the last couple of pages has video from this year of them doing exactly that. This year... Not to mention that there was an Israeli minister admitting that this was a part of their strategy in settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.


The rights and wrongs of the overall situation will probably never ever be resolved, but if you can't even sympathise with the plight of the average Gazan then I really do feel sorry for you. You're basically saying that you think 1 Israeli life is worth hundreds of Palestinian lives and untold suffering and that's really pretty tragic. And as long as everyone thinks that way there will never be a solution.

Also Bloomberg is a massive idiot.
 
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What is Israel's goal? I don't see why it should be to "maximize the death toll on the other side".

I didn't say it was. Just offered another angle of the daft idea of a "proportional response". Israel does, and should do, everything it can in order to stop rocket firing by those who openly call for its destruction. Simple stuff really.
 
If it was about maximizing death tolls, they'd be counting them in tens of thousands by now....

The situation is that with Hamas using civilians home's and other institutes, the only thing Israel can do is either operate in a situation that will harm innocent people or do very little at all. All this, I remind you, while Hamas keeps bombinb Israeli civilians with rockets.

There is of course another option with is a ground operation. It will probably lower the amount of civilian deaths in Gaza.... And also cost the lives of god knows how many soldiers and get very messy. So you can see why we're not keen on that.
 
I didn't say it was. Just offered another angle of the daft idea of a "proportional response". Israel does, and should do, everything it can in order to stop rocket firing by those who openly call for its destruction. Simple stuff really.

That's why I'm asking the question. Because if the goal is to stop rockets being fired at them, killing a bunch of innocent civilians and further radicalizing a population doesn't seem like the best way to accomplish it.