Those poor Hamas leaders don't seem to be keen on the cease fire, mind you. 
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Israel does not confine the Gazans in any way. They have a border crossing with Egypt, and peas aren't lobbed to Cairo despite the fact Egypt does not have nukes.
I think the Palestinian plight also has something to do with defining Israel's existence as oppression. In this state of affairs it appears that we can only appease them by disappearing. Together with our nukes. Expecting that would be irrational too.
Those poor Hamas leaders don't seem to be keen on the cease fire, mind you.
And then there are Israelis drawing parallels between Israel and Hamas. For all our technological capabilities we have not found the answer to our national tendency for self-destruction.
About time we developed an Iron SSRI.
So you'd agree that they're oppressed and degraded then?
I think its also a bit obtuse to define Palestinian perception of oppression being Israel's existence. Recent events in Gaza and the situation in the West Bank portray a more practical explanation.
And yes they are confided - Palestinians are treated as vermin by neighbouring Arab states so its not as if they were to freely traverse borders.
Netanyahu: Israel will intensify operation if Hamas continues rocket fire
Cabinet announces it accepts Egyptian cease-fire offer, while Hamas continues firing rockets at south, and as far as Zikhron Ya'akov, on the outskirts of Haifa.
Reuters
Latest Update: 07.15.14, 12:49 / Israel News
Israel sees in the Egyptian-proposed Gaza truce an opportunity to strip the Palestinian enclave of rockets but is prepared to redouble military action there if the cross-border launches persist, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday, three hours after his cabinet voted to accept that offer.
Cabinet announces it accepts Egyptian cease-fire offer, while Hamas continues firing rockets at south, and as far as Zikhron Ya'akov, on the outskirts of Haifa.
Reuters
Latest Update: 07.15.14, 12:49 / Israel News
Israel sees in the Egyptian-proposed Gaza truce an opportunity to strip the Palestinian enclave of rockets but is prepared to redouble military action there if the cross-border launches persist, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday, three hours after his cabinet voted to accept that offer.
Yeah, while I understand the feelings towards all the people hurt and killed in Gaza, there are very little parallels. This is still a country v an terror group.
Two sirens in Rehovot within 40 minutes or so. That didn't happen this whole past week! And both blasts were stronger than before. Cease fire, hey...
The Palestinians find themselves in one hell of a crap situation. However, they've not accepted an ounce of responsibility for the mess their situation is for 70 years now. My heart goes out to the suffering individuals, and some images filtering out from Gaza are horrific. Still, as long as the Arabs do not accept a Jewish Israel, and actively do their best to undermine it, I have no issues whatsoever with whatever means my government deems necessary to guarantee my personal safety, and that of my family, friends and compatriots.
Three sirens within an hour.
Good post.
Why should the Palestinians accept a Jewish Israel if the Jordanians and Egyptians were not required to fulfill the same obligation in the peace negotiations?
Why should Israel accept a second Palestinian Arab state in Palestine? But it has.
Unless Israelis are safe in the knowledge that a territorial compromise is not yet another step in the infamous PLO phase-plan there will be no agreement no matter how many times Hellboy is gonna barge in screaming "Nazis" on redcafe.
fecking hell.
Exactly. Throw peas at my kids and there are watermelons coming your way.
Well, it appears that this attempt at a ceasefire didn't work.
Israel accepted the ceasefire, Hamas rejected it. Now what?
Breaking News
Senior military official: Israel will respond to latest barrage of rockets
IAF renews aerial attacks in the Gaza Strip
Senior military official: Israel will respond to latest barrage of rockets
IAF renews aerial attacks in the Gaza Strip
There are also suggestions that a ground invasion of some sort is imminent.
Let the "Games" resume. I guess Hamas wasn't best pleased about the terms he received, partly because of lack of assurances from Egypt over opening the border between them and the Gaza Strip.
So why doesn't it lob rockets to Egypt? Doesn't make sense.
They already enough problems with Egypt. They don't want to open that can of warms.
Hamas aren't idiots, they don't actually want to go to war with Israel, all the way. There's no way they can win that. One can only assume they want better terms and it's known Egypt is responsible for some of those, like allowing them to bring supply into the strip.
But they are getting supplies through Israel, aren't they? What types of supplies are they after that can't go through Israel?
Who is providing the Gazans with electricity, fuel and drinking water when they're firing rockets at Israeli civilians? The Egyptians?
Who is providing the Gazans with electricity, fuel and drinking water when they're firing rockets at Israeli civilians? The Egyptians?
They want more, they want the Rafiah crossing open, or open more often, I'm not sure of the situation there.
Even as an Israeli I have to accept that the supply they are getting through us might not be enough... It certainly won't include materials for rockets, anyway!
Of course there's lack of logic there. There's not supposed to be any logic at all in firing at Israel when you see what Iron Dome is doing and know your own people will get killed...
Ceaseless barrages of rockets lead to resumption of IAF strikes
Senior army official says ground offensive necessary to combat terror tunnels. It could take between a week and two weeks, and has high chances of being successful.
Yoav Zitun
Latest Update: 07.15.14, 15:27 / Israel News
The ceaseless barrages of rockets after the unilateral truce has led the IDF to resume its aerial strikes in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday afternoon.
The resumption of aerial strikes might just be the first step towards a ground offensive, which seemed like a long-shot this morning when the cabinet accepted the Egyptian ceasefire proposal.
"A ground offensive could help combat the many tunnels in the Strip, where the Air Force is not effective," the senior official told reporters.
Israel held its fire as of 9am Tuesday as part of the Egyptian ceasefire proposal, but the heavy rocket fire from the Strip, which included long-range rockets to the Karmel area and to the Shfela area, brought about the change in tactics.
Government officials said that after Hamas and Islamic Jihad rejected Egypt's offer and fired dozens of rockets at Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon instructed them to forcefully strike terror targets.
"We received authorization to strike from the air following the barrages from the past few hours," the senior official said. "There will be a response; we will not let this go unnoticed."
On the possibility of a ground offensive, the senior military official said: "Our recommendations to the political leadership were clear on this issue. A ground maneuver to destroy the tunnels will take somewhere between a week and two weeks, and the troops deployed to the border are trained for this and prepared for this. There is a small but significant amount of tunnels that we've yet to expose, and they're targets in this maneuver."
The official explained that a ground offensive against the terror tunnels "has high chances of being successful. It will require confrontation with the enemy and the evacuation of civilians, and will lead to the increase of rocket launching at Israel, but we trust the troops. The solutions will come from the fighting forces on the field, from the bottom, not just from the army command."
Senior army official says ground offensive necessary to combat terror tunnels. It could take between a week and two weeks, and has high chances of being successful.
Yoav Zitun
Latest Update: 07.15.14, 15:27 / Israel News
The ceaseless barrages of rockets after the unilateral truce has led the IDF to resume its aerial strikes in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday afternoon.
The resumption of aerial strikes might just be the first step towards a ground offensive, which seemed like a long-shot this morning when the cabinet accepted the Egyptian ceasefire proposal.
"A ground offensive could help combat the many tunnels in the Strip, where the Air Force is not effective," the senior official told reporters.
Israel held its fire as of 9am Tuesday as part of the Egyptian ceasefire proposal, but the heavy rocket fire from the Strip, which included long-range rockets to the Karmel area and to the Shfela area, brought about the change in tactics.
Government officials said that after Hamas and Islamic Jihad rejected Egypt's offer and fired dozens of rockets at Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon instructed them to forcefully strike terror targets.
"We received authorization to strike from the air following the barrages from the past few hours," the senior official said. "There will be a response; we will not let this go unnoticed."
On the possibility of a ground offensive, the senior military official said: "Our recommendations to the political leadership were clear on this issue. A ground maneuver to destroy the tunnels will take somewhere between a week and two weeks, and the troops deployed to the border are trained for this and prepared for this. There is a small but significant amount of tunnels that we've yet to expose, and they're targets in this maneuver."
The official explained that a ground offensive against the terror tunnels "has high chances of being successful. It will require confrontation with the enemy and the evacuation of civilians, and will lead to the increase of rocket launching at Israel, but we trust the troops. The solutions will come from the fighting forces on the field, from the bottom, not just from the army command."
Might not be enough? Why would you "have to accept it"?
What is it like living through this? I cant imagine itThree sirens within an hour.
Thank you all for your recommendations. I was advised to read and contrast each side's version of the story which seems to me to be the right way to do it. I might then read something more neutral for a dialectical conclusion. More references (thanks to @2cents) include:
- Edward Said "The Question of Palestine" (Palestinian side)
- Yaacov Lozowick "Right to Exist" (Israeli side)
- Benny Morris "Righteous Victims" (Balanced version)
I lived through it for years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Over time it becomes a bit psychologically debilitating. Your entire thought construct starts revolving around the imminent feeling of potentially dying in a massive explosion. I'd imagine its 10 times worse for the Palestinians, as they don't benefit of a siren. Although after time, the siren itself a trigger for the stress.
Where are you from originally?
I think its surreal that here we are posting on Red Cafe, Im in Ireland and the biggest news story is a country singer has cancelled his concert. Amir also posting on Red Cafe to the back drop of sirens. ( I probably could have worded that better)
It’s a bit mind blowing to be perfectly honest.
1. Yeah, they always say 15 percent of the people in Sderot (Town in Israel that is hit with the most rockets) have PTSD. The figure in Gaza and the West Bank must be significantly higher. You wonder how much psychological factors such as this affect popular support for violence.
2. I haven't read a ton about this, but Jeffrey Goldberg's piece in the Atlantic this week said that part of the pressure on Hamas was from groups who are rising in popularity by positioning themselves to the "right" of Hamas and suggesting that Hamas isn't being violent enough.
Yep, I've been dealing with PTSD symptoms for a few years. It was particularly bad earlier this year in Afghanistan, as well as a few years ago in Iraq. Its particularly amplified when you know people who have died.
That sounds pretty rough, look after yourself.
Luckily the only time I'd experienced such debilitating horror I was quite young - the backlash of the failed 1991 uprising in Iraq where Saddam decided he'd go postal on the Kurds and Shia.
Luckily the only time I'd experienced such debilitating horror I was quite young - the backlash of the failed 1991 uprising in Iraq where Saddam decided he'd go postal on the Kurds and Shia.
Well done to the mods/posters for keeping this thread a discussion
Top post indeed. It makes me sick that leaders of the world have turned their back on the war crimes of Israel. It doesn't take a genius to realise what is going on. Credit to the posters/mods in the thread that have kept this issue a discussion and kept the emotion of the issue in context. If you don't have anything nice to say, do not say it at all. That is where i stand on this issue. Churns my stomach.
Top post indeed. It makes me sick that leaders of the world have turned their back on the war crimes of Israel. It doesn't take a genius to realise what is going on. Credit to the posters/mods in the thread that have kept this issue a discussion and kept the emotion of the issue in context. If you don't have anything nice to say, do not say it at all. That is where i stand on this issue. Churns my stomach.
Well, it's hardly a disaster in my case. Between Iron Dome and the safe room it's not exactly a case of living in fear or something like that, as chances of anything happening are small. Anyhow, it's the people who live closer to Gaza who are in the real mess. They've been dealing with this for up to 14 years, they have less protection (limits of Iron Dome), and they are bombarded far more.
But one way or the other, it's not a way to live.
Have any rockets landed in Tel Aviv since the Iron Dome system was put into place ?
There's no way of knowing for certain, but if you read reports, it's likely that not enough is getting in. I well remember the IDF report that calculated just how much has to go in in order for the people in Gaza to feed themselves 'just enough'.
Iron Dome doesn't target all rockets - just those which are projected to hit a populated area. None of those hit Tel Aviv. If anything landed in open spaces in Tel Aviv, I'm not sure. I think so.
Hamas did not reject a ceasefire. Sami Abu Zuhri has already stated that they weren't asked to stop. What has essentially happened is that Israel and Egypt have negotiated some sort of deal without informing Hamas. We then blame Hamas for rejecting a ceasefire that wasn't offered to them. Israel then uses this as a pretext to continue the killing. A bit too predictable.Those poor Hamas leaders don't seem to be keen on the cease fire, mind you.
Poor sods, they should do a Balotelli shirt for them: "Why always me".
First Israeli casualty of the operation, near the Gaza strip.
Obviously Hamas need to be officially informed. Just imagine if they would start applying basic common sense and stop the utterly pointless rocketing without having to be asked first.
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