Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

MJJ said:
Like I said, Israel needs to be forced into the issue. They are perfectly happy with the current situation.

More like an army made of the best technology and soldiers of the world or europe plus america.
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I'm asking you for realistic solutions, you're giving me pie in the sky fantacism. Who is going to force Israel to do anything ?

MJJ said:
More like an army made of the best technology and soldiers of the world or europe plus america.
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An Army of Cyborgs ?
 
Raoul said:
I'm asking you for realistic solutions, you're giving me pie in the sky fantacism. Who is going to force Israel to do anything ?



An Army of Cyborgs ?
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America for one like I said before if they wanted to.

Any situation is going to be hard to achieve, why do you think the issue has been going on for forty plus years if it could be resolved over an internet forum? The solution is simple, Israel has all the advantage and will use it. To stop them you need someone neutral, am suggesting something akin to a UN with real powers.

If you cant have a physical threat, impose a total embargo on them. No flights, no trade, no contact with the rest of the world(as much as its possible to block it) until they comply.
 
MJJ said:
America for one like I said before if they wanted to.

Any situation is going to be hard to achieve, why do you think the issue has been going on for forty plus years if it could be resolved over an internet forum? The solution is simple, Israel has all the advantage and will use it. To stop them you need someone neutral, am suggesting something akin to a UN with real powers.

If you cant have a physical threat, impose a total embargo on them. No flights, no trade, no contact with the rest of the world(as much as its possible to block it) until they comply.
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Or Israel if they wanted to...or Hamas if they wanted to. Anyone can do what they want if they want to, but the problem is they don't, which why suggesting it is unrealistic. What would be helpful are realistic suggestions.
 
Raoul said:
I understand, its a human issue first before its one of religions. Why do you think this issue receives as much attention as it does, compared with other humanitarian crises like Rwanda, Darfur etc ?
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Probably because there are about 2 billion muslims and a lot of them are concerned about what happens in Palestine. Also because Israel is very influential in the western world, USA and Europe's ties with Israel are there for all to see !

What we are witnessing now is a MUCH WORSE version of SA's apartheid : liberties and properties are deprived, racial discrimination, inequalities, THAT wall, thousands of incarcerated and tortured men, women and children, violations of international law on daily basis. Enough is enough really.
 
MJJ said:
Propose something.

As I keep saying Israel is happy with the current situation and the only way they will compromise is if they will be forced into it.
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You think Israel is happy with the current situation of receiving regular volleys of rockets ? Obviously not.
 
Raoul said:
You think Israel is happy with the current situation of receiving regular volleys of rockets ? Obviously not.
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Slowly occupying more and more of the westbank while blaming it on hamas and their rockets? Yeah, can see why they are so unhappy with the state of affairs. Its a dream scenario for them. Oh one rocket was fired that did no harm, now we have the right to kill a few hundreds and assert our dominance.
 
@Fearless: Suppose the entire power assymetry was reversed (that Palestine had most of the land, the arms, the dipllomatic backing, and the finances)
The Israeli people have given Naftali Bennet's party enough seats to be part of the government.
Having avoided negotiations with ben-Guiron and his Labour succcessors since they were too extreme, then seen the rise of Likud, then Netanyahu, and now Jewish Home, the new Arab pretext to avoid talks would be that Barak/Livni/Peres (whom they are supposedly willing to deal with) now has Bennet in their coalition.
In the next flare-up, the Palestinians then bomb indiscrimnately everyone associated with Jewish Home and a few Likud leaders. Would you think that is a fare punishment for the Israelis (who have voted for Bennet), since you think that voting for Hamas entitles Gazans to similar retribution? Genuine question.
 
MJJ said:
Slowly occupying more and more of the westbank while blaming it on hamas and their rockets? Yeah, can see why they are so unhappy with the state of affairs. Its a dream scenario for them. Oh one rocket was fired that did no harm, now we have the right to kill a few hundreds and assert our dominance.
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Well you have to look at who holds all the cards. Its Israel - they have the power and the better negotiating position. Rockets will only cause them to become more aggressive, as we're seeing right now.
 
Raoul said:
You think Israel is happy with the current situation of receiving regular volleys of rockets ? Obviously not.
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Israelis may not be pleased but the government should be- the rockets keep the people angry enough to vote for the right-wing parties currently in power without causing large scale damage, keep a climate of fear alive and provide a handy pretext to bomb whenever necessary- the bombings themselves can be timed nicely with elections, can be used to mess up Palestinian unity attempts, and the rockets provide great diplomatic cover in which to hide their settlement building activity, expanding its reach and permanently destroying any chance of a Palestinian state (anathema to Netanyahu, whatever he may say, and definitely to Bennet)
 
Raoul said:
Well you have to look at who holds all the cards. Its Israel - they have the power and the better negotiating position. Rockets will only cause them to become more aggressive, as we're seeing right now.
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This rockets BS is just an excuse for further colonization and ethnic cleaning. How many Israelis died because of rockets ? 0 Palestinians ? 80 and counting.
 
Raoul said:
Well you have to look at who holds all the cards. Its Israel - they have the power and the better negotiating position. Rockets will only cause them to become more aggressive, as we're seeing right now.
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Hence someone forcing them to compromise. Its the only viable solution.
 
Hellboy said:
This rockets BS is just an excuse for further colonization and ethnic cleaning. How many Israelis died because of rockets ? 0 Palestinians ? 80 and counting.
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Well there are quite a few rockets coming across the border, which is obviously a known red line for the Israelis. Its a losing proposition for Hamas and Palestinians at large, as most of the rockets are getting intercepted by Iron Dome, whilst the Israelis are using the firing of the rockets as an excuse to bomb and possibly ground invade Gaza. Who is coming off worse in this ?
 
Should they sit back and watch their wives and children getting killed ? Like Mandela said and I quote him : "When a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in he has no choice but to become an outlaw."
 
MJJ said:
There are numerous ways to harm Israel if the west ever gets serious about it. They wont though as no one cares about some palestine life.
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There are also numerous ways to reach to reach the moon, including trampolines and helium balloons. We just need to get serious about harnessing these technologies.
 
Raoul said:
There are also numerous ways to reach to reach the moon, including trampolines and helium balloons. We just need to get serious about harnessing these technologies.
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No need to be facetious, sanctions are very powerful as we saw in South Africa.
 
MJJ said:
They are doing just that but slowly and over a period of time to avoid all out war. Add up the death toll over the past forty years, its going to be close to or over a million and there is no end in sight.
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MJJ said:
Yeah, just googled it. Is a lot less but still a lot.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html
No idea how reliable that website is though. Still 100,000 killed!
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Why the urge to spout crap then? Is there any topic at all people feel so strongly about while actually not making any attempt at proper research?

So instead of a million in 40 years we're talking about 80-odd thousand over a century, of which many Palestinians fell victim to their leadership aspirations of eliminating Jewish presence here.
 
peterstorey said:
No need to be facetious, sanctions are very powerful as we saw in South Africa.
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They could be, but how would sanctions be implemented if the US don't support them. It wouldn't clear the security council, so once again, an unrealistic solution.
 
Hellboy said:
This rockets BS is just an excuse for further colonization and ethnic cleaning. How many Israelis died because of rockets ? 0 Palestinians ? 80 and counting.
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Seriously though, if Hamas are firing, disrupting life and putting lives at risk (and they are, those things can fall anywhere and Iron Dome is not fail proof), what is it that Israel is expected to do?
 
I had a little think-about when someone mentioned on a previous page that International community won't allow Israel to slaughter millions.

Israel are clearly in a position of power here. The question they have to ask themselves is how do they see this conflict ending? Forget about international pressure for a minute. Are they or any number of them ok with killing millions of Palestinians for their own homeland? I know people can be terribly patriotic and jingoistic but surely no type of homeland (holy or otherwise) is worth that.

Even if they succeed with hoarding more and more land with their settlements, can they realistically live on forever next to a hostile neighbor? Only solution from their side seems to be driving Palestinians away to other countries somehow.
 
MJJ said:
Slowly occupying more and more of the westbank while blaming it on hamas and their rockets? Yeah, can see why they are so unhappy with the state of affairs. Its a dream scenario for them. Oh one rocket was fired that did no harm, now we have the right to kill a few hundreds and assert our dominance.
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This will lead to a single state. I don't think many in Israel are too happy with that idea.
 
Raoul said:
They could be, but how would sanctions be implemented if the US don't support them. It wouldn't clear the security council, so once again, an unrealistic solution.
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Not sure what you are expecting then? Are you suggesting Israel should just have its way then since there is no solution possible which will do justice to Palestinians?
 
Raoul said:
They could be, but how would sanctions be implemented if the US don't support them. It wouldn't clear the security council, so once again, an unrealistic solution.
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Why don't the US push for a two-state solution?
 
crappycraperson said:
Not sure what you are expecting then? Are you suggesting Israel should just have its way then since there is no solution possible which will do justice to Palestinians?
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That is the status quo right now isn't it. How do you see the status quo being broken ?
 
holyland red said:
Why the urge to spout crap then? Is there any topic at all people feel so strongly about while actually not making any attempt at proper research?

So instead of a million in 40 years we're talking about 80-odd thousand over a century, of which many Palestinians fell victim to their leadership aspirations of eliminating Jewish presence here.
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So instead of feeling sorry over the loss of life you are arguing against the number of people killed? Welldone, your government has killed 40000-50000 people with the majority of that innocents. Betcha feel proud.

Seriously, what is in the waters of Israel.
 
crappycraperson said:
I had a little think-about when someone mentioned on a previous page that International community won't allow Israel to slaughter millions.

Israel are clearly in a position of power here. The question they have to ask themselves is how do they see this conflict ending? Forget about international pressure for a minute. Are they or any number of them ok with killing millions of Palestinians for their own homeland? I know people can be terribly patriotic and jingoistic but surely no type of homeland (holy or otherwise) is worth that.

Even if they succeed with hoarding more and more land with their settlements, can they realistically live on forever next to a hostile neighbor? Only solution from their side seems to be driving Palestinians away to other countries somehow.
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From this thread, I would have to say yes. The views of the Israelis are shocking to say the least.
 
crappycraperson said:
I had a little think-about when someone mentioned on a previous page that International community won't allow Israel to slaughter millions.

Israel are clearly in a position of power here. The question they have to ask themselves is how do they see this conflict ending? Forget about international pressure for a minute. Are they or any number of them ok with killing millions of Palestinians for their own homeland? I know people can be terribly patriotic and jingoistic but surely no type of homeland (holy or otherwise) is worth that.

Even if they succeed with hoarding more and more land with their settlements, can they realistically live on forever next to a hostile neighbor? Only solution from their side seems to be driving Palestinians away to other countries somehow.
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I think allowing the status quo to progress as it is- with settlements expanding and non Israeli-controlled Palestinian land diminishing, and Israeli casulaties kept fairly low despite the rocket barrage- all that is in the interests of Netayahu et al.
 
Amir said:
Seriously though, if Hamas are firing, disrupting life and putting lives at risk (and they are, those things can fall anywhere and Iron Dome is not fail proof), what is it that Israel is expected to do?
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Hamas are freedom fighters, and responded to air strikes. The real terrorists are the Israelis and you know it.
 
Hellboy said:
Hamas are freedom fighters, and responded to air strikes. The real terrorists are the Israelis and you know it.
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If those rockets aren't actually killing that many Jews (you said it was 0 Israeli casualties), what's the point of firing them? Who are those rockets aimed at?
 
Raoul said:
Of course it does. It contextualizes US support in a broader context where Israel and Muslim countries are all beneficiaries of US support. If the US was just pro-Israel, it would certainly not give money to nations that have historically been at odds with Israel.
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The only reason Egypt gets money is as a price of the peace deal signed with Israel
 
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