Kinell...just saw this. Tone it down a bit....will ya.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Kinell...just saw this. Tone it down a bit....will ya.
Don't envy your job on this topic pal.
He has a choice about blowing up buses full a school children though doesn't he? Or are you saying Mandela would support what Hamas is doing because I'm struggling to see that as anything other than nonsense.
The international community isn't going to do anything about this until a Palestinian leader, supported by his or her people, chooses non violence, takes the moral high ground and the long view and exposes Israel's position by offering a viable solution. That is the lesson from South Africa. It works but it takes decades.
You propose kicking a number of Palestinians out of Israel, you do nothing for the Palestinian refugees and you get to keep your settlements
Interesting,
Do you think the Pakistan army is going to kill fewer innocent people in its operations than the US drone strikes, or is it the nationality that matters?
No one is kicked out. Borders redrawn to minimise friction between the two peoples, with as few as possible people (all Jews!) evicted from their homes. Refugees will be settled in their respective nation states.
You oppose it because you will only be satisfied when Jewish Israel is eliminated. Plain and simple.
No chance that a demilitarization will ever occur, neither should it in my opinion. I lived in Lebanon for most of my life and would rather die than see my home country demilitarized. It's bad enough that Hezbollah overpower the army now. Imagine them having complete control over the nation.
With regards to Amir's post, it's not the arab country that is volatile, it's the stupid political parties and extremist groups within them.
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I'm all for something like this. It's a fecking shame it's never going to happen the way the Israeli government and Hamas are going on.
The Israeli government have more power and control in this situation though which is why I personally focus on them with criticism. I see Hamas as entities created out of hatred, they should not exist at all but how life is in Gaza you can see why they do.
Such a shame and disgrace that the Arab powers in the region don't unite on this issue and tell Israel to feck off, and give the Palestinians the help they need.
Thick as custard
Unfortunately, the Arab 'powers' are too spineless to do anything worthwhile, they can't even placate their own civilians. Not to mention almost all of them are puppet states filled with pathetic despots. The Gulf Arab states for starters are obsessed with Iran to the point they're happy to fund ISIS, Al Nusra and other extremists in order to destabalise her allies.
The 'Arab league' is perhaps the region's best joke. I really do wish Iraq would leave that embarrassing assembly.
And stupid.
I just did a quick Wiki search- "never left of Likud" means you are to the right of 56% of Israelis- I don't know much about these parties but I classified all these as more conciliatory than Likud:
Kadima, Hatnuah, Yesh Atid, Meretz, Hadash, Taal, and Balad, with 68 (=56% votes) members in your PR-system parliament.
Also, I don't see how voting for Likud (or worse) will help with what you claim is your ideal end to the conflict- it's in Likud's interests to keep this conflict going for as long as possible- even Hamas does not benefit as much as right-wing Israeli parties do from the status quo.
The Guardian has always had an Israeli minister, often a hardliner, write a piece explaining why they think the bombings are right. Also, none of those papers are anywhere close to extreme- and they aren't rags or propaganda outlets or whatever you called them- they are very good newspapers with a high standard of journalism. Haaretz has recently started charign for all their articles and I miss reading their stuff.
Your maths here is quite simplistic. People sharing my views on the conflict vote for a variety of parties, including Hatnuah, Yesh Atid, Kadima, Labour among others. It's the fragmentation of our political system, and personal ambitions of politicians that create a false image of a plethora of views when in fact you're either pro two-state solution (Hatnua, Yesh Atid, Kadima, Labour, 1/2 Likud and I'd argue Israel Beitenu) and others against it (extreme left and right). Ultra-orthodox Jews would join any coalition if their institutions get funded.
I, like many others sharing views, vote for Likud because I think that striking a deal with the Palestinians at this point in time is irresponsible. I'm not blinded by slogans, and have no doubt whatsoever that there has to be a gradual process leading to the final goal. It would be suicidal by Israel retreating to the 1967 border when it's quite clear that Hamas will be taking over the WB and no Palestinian leadership ready to accept peaceful co-existence with a Jewish Israel.
I think we'll have to disagree on how impartial the Guardian and Independent are regarding the ME conflict, leftist or not. For me, Ha'aretz is even worse for being an Israeli newspaper that clearly promotes a post-Zionist agenda.
Quality sports section, though!
You write for it don't you!
Of course. Also working as an editor...
Thick as shit
What an idiot. You represent the stupid american in a nutshell. Thank the Neo-Cons for producing half-wits like you.
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As for now :
93 killed (30 future terrorist children, 16 women, 15 elderly people)
630 injured
Nice spectacle for some Israelis.
93 killed (30 future terrorist children, 16 women, 15 elderly people)
630 injured
Nice spectacle for some Israelis.
Sorry for the late reply Berbatrick. Hopefully I've understood your question. Yes is the answer. If any portion of Israeli society fully supports a genocidal agenda against anyone (and Bennet doesn't), Arab, Jew or Martian, and backs the relevant politician to carry that out, then they deserve whats coming. Though let me stress - no matter the emotions that are running high - it sickens me to see innocent Gazan's getting hurt and killed. This is not what I want at all. Ever.
For the record, I hope that those who brutally murdered the Arab teenager are punished to the full.
Ok, but how do you compromise with Hamas's Islamist agenda? Ask them to become apostates?
Tell that to the people of Tibet, 65 years of peaceful protest has lead to....the non exsitance of Tibet.
True but would they have done any better against China through armed struggle or just got a lot of their kids killed as well?
Unless sanctions are implemented by the US and the EU China is not going to withdraw from Tibet.
Just because you do not see the point in peaceful protest, does not mean you sanction terrorism, (a legitimate armed response is not plausible against such opposition in both cases).
Truth is, there is not much that can be done to deter a greater powers will.
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Borders redrawn and citizenships revoked, this way you loose a bunch of Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and can now treat them as you treat their brethren in the West Bank and Gaza, no Palestinian would accept this. Its supports your racist Jewish state ideals perfectly
I have to tell you that when sirens become your morning wakeup call, explosions become the daily soundtrack and going into a safe room is something you do a couple of times a day - and also realizing it's far, far worse for people living closer - you kind of lose any sort of sympathy to the other side and simply want something to done to make sure it's over, for good. Whatever means necessary.
I know, it doesn't sound great, but there you have it. Even left winged parties in Israel are supporting the strike on Gaza.
I know, it doesn't sound great, but there you have it. Even left winged parties in Israel are supporting the strike on Gaza.
Apart from making consessions to the palestinians and making peace with them there is no other solution. A two state solution will be a disaster even worse than India-pakistan one and continuing on the current path will be no good because uncle wont be around forever to shield them, they should make peace a long time before the arabs start getting the upper hand sometime down the future, else the roles will get reversed or they'll finish each other off.
And the palestinians think the same and dont have the comfort of a safe room!
This is what is bothering me. I'm seeing this graphic pictures on facebook and reports of children and innocent civilians being killed. I keep telling myself these pictures must be fake and the Israelis are only targeting terrorists.
Then I hear people like you and others not deny that innocent civilians and children are being killed but rather give a reason as to why it is necessary. Really pathetic if that is your justification for killing innocent people.
Also, living in Israel with your dome that protects you from every rocket is not a threat anyway. I've lived in warzones much worse than that but would still condemn any action which involves the disgusting term of "collateral damage".
That's a separate issue but India-Pakistan was inevitable. We are seeing this right now. Israel and Palestinians can not in the long run stay together I think.
Oh my days how do you cope.
It's quite astonishing really. I don't know how anyone can justify the killing of innocent people based on the above.
I agree, the rights and wrongs become mute. If there is no way to get what you want you have to consider the cost of trying anyway.
Few reasons (in my view anyway):
They consider themselves to be in the right and will strive to achieve what they believe is their right of returning to their homeland. History is littered with groups who resist against overwhelming odds to attempt to achieve what they consider to be just. Some of them achieve it. Some of them.......
I assume some of the leaders believe that eventually the Israelis will end up having to make a decision between the occupation and democracy (whether other people agree that Israel is a democracy or not is irrelevant in this case, I'm talking about the perception within Israel). I think they know that (despite Fearless' dream), the world will not allow another 48, an ethnic cleansing of the West Bank Palestinians to Jordan/ all these countries worldwide that are apparently going to readily accept 11 million Palestinians. In that case, it becomes a case of seeing what Israel chooses.
Many of the Palestinians I know have effectively given up. They feel like they have already lost everything. Their rights, their land, their dignity, their allies and in many cases, their lives. For them, there is nothing more to lose. In that case, they see the terms being imposed on them as yet another humiliation. Why attempt to negotiate in this way when they are perhaps at their lowest point?
Whether I agree with this or not is of course a moot point.
As an aside, Fearless is by some distance the most distasteful and reprehensible poster I have ever come across on any forum. A truly worrying individual.
And no, Hamas are not 'freedom fighters'. They are a bunch of extremist morons with no plan. What they're doing now is trying to save face. They got angry because the IDF decided to enact collective punishment on the West Bank for the kidnap and murder of their 3 teens, in part by rearresting many of the prisoners they had released (as it was quite obvious they would at some point) and decided to retaliate by flinging some of their rockets into Israel proper.......which does little damage to Israelis but instead brings Israeli collective punishment westwards to Gaza in a much more brutal way.
Just stop ffs. Whatever your view of the problems there (and Palestinians do need to be doing things to remind Israelis of the occupation; I've been to both Israel and the West Bank and so many Israelis are completely removed from the day to day realities of the occupation), the rockets are not the solution in any way, shape or form.
Just stop ffs. Whatever your view of the problems there (and Palestinians do need to be doing things to remind Israelis of the occupation; I've been to both Israel and the West Bank and so many Israelis are completely removed from the day to day realities of the occupation), the rockets are not the solution in any way, shape or form.
That is true
.Realistically, there is nothing the Palestinians can do anymore in the land West of the Jordan River, just as the ANC's tactics in SA hit a brick wall (not making a direct comparison between Israel and SA here). Their fight must now be in the International arena, with powers greater than Israel.