Its easy, Israel doesn't like Palestinians and any other Arabs which in other hand they don't like Israel at all, then they mess with Israel and they end up losing. Since most media in Europe still has the "Jewish" syndrome then automatically makes them the bad guys which most Europeans accept it with a smile and a small mustache on their face.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Its easy, Israel doesn't like Palestinians and any other Arabs which in other hand they don't like Israel at all, then they mess with Israel and they end up losing. Since most media in Europe still has the "Jewish" syndrome then automatically makes them the bad guys which most Europeans accept it with a smile and a small mustache on their face.
There you go. As unbiased and descriptive as it could be.
1. How was he provacative? He was getting his views across peacefully. He wasn't shouting/stirring any kind of violence. Please advise me what kind of damage/disruption could have possibly done?
2. According to your arguement, Why werent the right wing jewish marchers arrested. They were making a lot more noise than he was.
I think he was approached quite politely before this video takes a nasty turn. Every Israeli citizen has the right to protest, but this can't came at the expense of public safety. Shit stirring isn't always allowed, whether Jewish or Arab protesters are involved.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4311368,00.html
And still not a word on recognizing Israel. A never ending joke.
On the contrary it's a very conciliating interview.
You got to give the m credit though. They know their stuff, getting the usual crowd on their side. After all, recognizing Israel is their mythical "bargaining chip". Israel is supposed to go back to the 1967 line and then find what the Palestinian call is. Pragmatism they call it.
Israel successfully tests Magic Wand system
Israel's Defense Ministry and the US's Missile Defense Agency have completed the first round of tests on the Magic Wand system. The test was reportedly successful raising the chances of future investment.
The interceptor missile system is being developed for the Defense Ministry by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and the US's Raytheon Co. It was designed to intercept Hezbollah missiles fired from Lebanon.
Israel is counting on the system to become the centerpiece of its air defense layout and provide a solution for a variety of short-range ballistic missiles, large caliber rockets and cruise missiles.
If development goes ahead as planned, the system will be able to intercept any object launched from a distance of at least 70 kilometers.
Israel's Defense Ministry and the US's Missile Defense Agency have completed the first round of tests on the Magic Wand system. The test was reportedly successful raising the chances of future investment.
The interceptor missile system is being developed for the Defense Ministry by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and the US's Raytheon Co. It was designed to intercept Hezbollah missiles fired from Lebanon.
Israel is counting on the system to become the centerpiece of its air defense layout and provide a solution for a variety of short-range ballistic missiles, large caliber rockets and cruise missiles.
If development goes ahead as planned, the system will be able to intercept any object launched from a distance of at least 70 kilometers.
PR is obviously the next salvo now that a ceasefire has begun, both sides will present a post conflict face. The next step for both sides is obviously convincing the world of its good intentions.
I don't really think it is. He's saying "we are ready to resort to a peaceful way, without blood and weapons, as long as we attain our Palestinian demands." Which basically means the continuation of the same old. He knows full well that no sane Israeli will ever agree to the 1967 borders and to Jerusalem as their capital city. And the best thing is he says after he's got his state, then the state will decide on their position in regards to Israel. And after their referendum, when 99.99% have decided against recognising Israel as a Jewish state, then what?
Israel successfully tests Magic Wand system
Israel's Defense Ministry and the US's Missile Defense Agency have completed the first round of tests on the Magic Wand system. The test was reportedly successful raising the chances of future investment.
The interceptor missile system is being developed for the Defense Ministry by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and the US's Raytheon Co. It was designed to intercept Hezbollah missiles fired from Lebanon.
Israel is counting on the system to become the centerpiece of its air defense layout and provide a solution for a variety of short-range ballistic missiles, large caliber rockets and cruise missiles.
If development goes ahead as planned, the system will be able to intercept any object launched from a distance of at least 70 kilometers.
How come you actually never got the Patriot air defence stuff?
The Patriot missiles have never intercepted any Scud missile succesfully. Thankfully, it appears that a combination of the Iron Dome, Magic Wand and Arrow would provide an answer to the threat of the entire range of freedom missiles launched at heavily populated areas in Israel.
Did they ever fully covnert the Partiot missiles to handle other missiles? If I remember correctly, it originally was meant to handle airplanes. Obviously they did their best in the 1991 Gulf War, but I don't know if it was ever seen as a real solution.
They were placed here to make the Israeli public feel safer, with no real answer to the Scuds. Truth is they were no better than fireworks, and are pretty useless as an anti-missile defense system.
New baby names in Gaza: 'Fajr' and 'Ahmed Jabari'
Wonder whether F-15 will be a popular name in Israel.
Wonder whether F-15 will be a popular name in Israel.
Mashaal needs to speak to this lady ASAP, he did after all promise 'a peaceful way, without blood and weapons' in which case the mother's good intentions for the child's future might be totally misdirected.
Short-sightedness? What about them telephoto lenses?
This point is actually not even up for debate, because there is no country in the world that will help another country (at such a large scale) without expecting something back. Saying anything other than that is merely being hypocritical. There are tens of countries and millions of other people who were also victims of the crimes Britain and Europe committed in the past. Yet nobody cares that much about helping them now. Can you find those in your history books?
If you can't understand this point, then I foresee some difficulties. Are you seriously not getting the point, or deliberately dodging it??
Again, finding myself having to explain the same point more than once. When I said Britain "sent them", like I already explained, it not like they ordered all Jews to go to Palestine, or held their hands and guided them to Palestine lol. When you declare a country for the Jews, on a land that's not theirs, THAT is the real invitation for the Jews to go and occupy a land that is not theirs. THAT is how Britain encouraged the other 85% of Israelis to emigrate.
And yes, like I said before, Britain was hesitant about the whole project at the beginning because they didn't think it would work out. Later, that thought has changed, and the rest is history.
Comparing Pakistan to Israel won't work, regardless how much we agree or disagree about the external involvement (which was NOWHERE as much in Pakistan's situation as in Israel's).
Pakistan was created from the people in THAT area who were persecuted/feared to be persecuted, and it was established in areas which mostly had already a Muslim majority. They didn't bring Muslims from Europe because they were persecuted there, implanted them in Pakistan, and made a country out of them!
Also, the original point holyland_red raised was comparing the creation of Israel to ALL the 22 Muslim countries, which I find ridiculous actually.
I'd say the British were pretty heavily 'involved' in the partition of British India, given they actually did it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India
Sorry, but many of the people moving to Pakistan after the partition will have travelled further than Jews who moved to Israel from Eastern Europe and the Middle East. The sub-continent is a big area, even if you capitalise the word 'that'.
Yeah, as well as which about half the Jews came from Arab countries, though mainly a bit later.
Danny, on most of your points I either disagree or don't understand what you're on about. While all foreign policy is based on self-interest, I think in the case of Israel and Britain that was most evident earlier in the century, with Balfour. By the time of the Foundation, it was more that Britain was exhausted and lacked the will to fight, especially when the holocaust had just happened and it was hard to make a stand against the need for a Jewish state.
The argument that it was to create an ally in the region doesn't make much sense, given that we never had much trouble, before or since, forging alliances with oil states.
As for Judaism, it was clearly important in the choice of location but is a minor issue in terms of immigration since they allow Jews in by ethnicity/lineage anyway. A large number of Zionist immigrants from Europe - and certainly the most representative ones in public rhetoric - were secular socialists, and the country is still secular, though the socialism is long gone.
Danny, on most of your points I either disagree or don't understand what you're on about. While all foreign policy is based on self-interest, I think in the case of Israel and Britain that was most evident earlier in the century, with Balfour. By the time of the Foundation, it was more that Britain was exhausted and lacked the will to fight, especially when the holocaust had just happened and it was hard to make a stand against the need for a Jewish state.
The argument that it was to create an ally in the region doesn't make much sense, given that we never had much trouble, before or since, forging alliances with oil states.
As for Judaism, it was clearly important in the choice of location but is a minor issue in terms of immigration since they allow Jews in by ethnicity/lineage anyway. A large number of Zionist immigrants from Europe - and certainly the most representative ones in public rhetoric - were secular socialists, and the country is still secular, though the socialism is long gone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India
Are you talking here only about the year 1947/1948? And what happened in the next 65 years? Can we add it to the comparison?
Also, it's not even only Britain. I was talking about "many external powers". Are you telling me that Pakistan have received as much help from external powers (including Britain) to maintain its existence as Israel did from 1947(8) till 2012??
That was still India. And I know India is a big country, but it's still ruled by one government.
Without China, Pakistan would probably have been toast about 40 years ago.
Help for Israel, financially and politically, has been overwhelmingly from the US. Britain's been largely irrelevant, and Soviet support cooled quicker than a samovar in a freezer. They even started their own Jewish state, the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, as a rival. It proved less enticing, due to being somewhere near Mongolia and run by anti-Semites.
The big game-changing external assistance that both Israel and Pakistan have received since their respective formations has been in the acquisition of nuclear weapons.
This was your original point that started this discussion:
And your answer is Pakistan, which involved mass migration, many deaths and many subsequent wars.
I'm sorry, I don't know what your post is in reply to. Were you meaning Danny1982?
Sorry, yes.
And in Israel's case, if I remember rightly, what external assistance there was came from the French. The yanks were kept in the dark and were furious when it became a fait accompli.
The help Israel got is much more than the nuclear weapons which are useless really, because nobody is going to use them.
From other countries! lol Read my previous posts to get a proper context.
Well the logic of nuclear weapons doesn't need a rational reason to use them. It would have been insanity for anyone in the Cold War to have used them, but that doesn't mean their development wasn't a game-changer. On the contrary, they defined the narrative of the Cold War.
In Israel's case, they change the game because they make the state 'permanent' (scare-quotes because no state is really permanent and Israel certainly won't be). The dream of eradicating it by war is effectively over unless anyone has the appetite for suicide.
Plech, I wasn't talking only about Britain. My point from the start was about help from "external powers", including Britain.
And we don't even need to look in the history books, and differ about what we find in it. Just look at the case in 2012 and you can have your answer.
I can see us having different opinions about the matter though, and I don't think we're going to make any progress, because I'll never believe that the help that is being given to Israel by the Western countries and the UN (on all levels, even militarily, till now!) is as much as the help they give to Pakistan. And I don't think you'll believe Israel is being helped at all either. So, let's just end it there.
Do you think if Israel is beaten militarily (without the use of nuclear weapons), they may use nuclear weapons to defend their existence as a country?
I think if they were facing total defeat they'd start threatening to torch the whole neighbourhood. And once you get to the point of nuclear threats amid a frantic battle for survival, the odds of a nuke going off aren't small.
Do you think it's (morally) justified if they did it?
No, but as usual with Israel I also think it's what pretty much everyone would do. Except Norway.
Everyone's morally justified in staying alive.
But I was talking about the existence of the country, not the people.
And by the way, I'm not hinting at my opinion here, just trying to make it clear what we're talking about.
Threats, yeah, but actually pressing the button would just be genocide with no actual point except 'well then feck you too'.
I just can't see the people (the Jewish ones) surviving an Arab conquest, and I'm pretty sure the leadership would see it the same way.
Norway would probably nuke itself first. Stupid Norwegians.