I'd boycott the entire region to be fair...except Kurdistan.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I'd boycott the entire region to be fair...except Kurdistan.
Likely, perhaps... what is it in the Israeli-Arab conflict that draws so much attention, by so many, who appear to know so little. Religious nutters worldwide unite.
Show me a post where I have ever said Arabs are any less racists than Israelis'.
I have to admit I have new regional darlings. Atrocious choice of colours for a national flag though.
Show me a post where you compared Arabs to South Africa, asking the US and EU to boycott them.
Would you support the boycott of Saudi Arabia alongside Israel?
We nicked it off the Iranians who themselves went through an artistic crisis centuries ago.
This religious nutter believes killing one innocent Israeli for the purpose of Palestine getting it's independent state is wrong. One innocent life is worth more than any piece of land.
Yes. I dislike a lot of their policies.
Would you support boycotting of Iran for their treatment of religious minorities?
No, I don't believe in collective punishment, Israel included.
I abhor the regime and their treatment of minorities though.
How do you propose to boycott Saudi without its population subject to collective punishment?
I'm not, that's my point.
Your new buddy will soon break any ties built up over the last few minute.
South Africa had to mend their ways. A boycott of sorts is probably the only way to bring nations such as Israel, Iran, Saudi, N Korea and the likes in line.
Your new buddy will soon break any ties built up over the last few minute.
Im not very popular in the CE forum
A boycott caused half a million Iraqi children to starve to death, collective punishment never resonates well with me, irrespective of how heinous a regime may be.
It's easy to be popular. However, that's not the point of debate.Im not very popular in the CE forum
I propose more of a sporting boycott. I'm a big cricket fan, and I know how hard that international boycott was for South Africans. I'm not sure if a sporting boycott would do anything for the likes of Israel, Iran and Saudi who are mostly rubbish at most sports give or take a few individuals.
Edit: I think you must have missed a few pages of this thread. We were discussing Israel playing in Europe.
Honestly, I feel equally uncomfortable with sporting boycotts since I see sports as one of those rare apolitical unifiers that goes beyond politics, ethnic tensions and personal grudges.
The SA sports boycott was pretty ineffective, it was only when the economic sanctions hit the rand in the pockets of the rich that change started to happen.
Do you have any viable proposals to bring these pariah states in line?
"I have not the slightest doubt that what you did played a major role in persuading the supporters of apartheid to change their ways and, in the negotiations that followed F.W. de Klerk’s courageous decision to release Nelson Mandela in 1990, to agree on a constitution based on the principle, also enshrined in the Spirit of Cricket, of respect for others.
There have been those who have loved the dichotomies that try to divide life into watertight compartments – religion, politics, sport – imagining fondly that they were watertight and impervious to one another. But we know differently: politics impinges on sport as much as on any other aspect of life.
We know that politics and sport have an important relationship. We indicated that the sports boycott played a crucial part in our liberation, and now sport is playing a pivotal part in helping to build South Africa up to be the rainbow nation."
Desmond Tutu
See above post.
First you have to define pariah states, then what it is you want to "bring them in line" with, then you can look at how to go about it.
Football and cricket kicked them out in the 60s and other sports from the 70s onward. So they weren't exactly buckling for 20 years.
That's some loaded question, Raoul. I'm not sure there would be an agreement. Ever. Can't we just have a scatter-gun policy where anyone disliked by USA are defined as a pariah state?
Football is considered a black mans sport in South Africa. Wasn't the Dolly episode in 70's? Rugby Union and Cricket were always the domain of the whites and it hurt them to be not on international stage.
That's some loaded question, Raoul. I'm not sure there would ever be an agreement. Ever. Can't we just have a scatter-gun policy where anyone disliked by USA are defined as a pariah state?
Its an interesting question in that there really are no settled global norms. The US, Canada, Europe, Australia et al have their own set of western norms, and since the power structures of global society are still primarily in the west, its they who get to set the agenda.
Oh wait...That would leave Israel unscathed.Can't we just have a scatter-gun policy where anyone disliked by USA are defined as a pariah state?
Oh wait...That would leave Israel unscathed.
I think you'll see something more definitive on the Israeli-Palestinian situation as public opinion in the US gradually drifts from being distinctly pro-Israel to pragmatic or indifferent, at which point politicians will feel empowered to deal with it from a more neutral perspective where security council issues surrounding Israel are no longer rubber stamped by the US.
Partly that, and partly the realisation from the 'whites' that they would inevitably lose sole power one way or another, and the best option would be to try and have some control over when and how that would happen. The effects of sporting boycotts were minimal in comparison, I agree.
Hopefully the day will come when Israelis reach that same point, and start using their ingenuity and bravery to figure out a way of sharing the disputed lands fairly, instead of digging a bigger hole, ever more furiously, into which they will surely one day fall.
Speaking of racism aren't arabs and jews the same race ? except the fake blonde european ones.
Neither Arabs or Jews can be called a 'race'.
Palestinians and Jews are, but not Arabs in general.
It's sad that Palestinians are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who were persecuted by the Egyptians, the Romans and the Greeks. But because their ancestors decided to change religion, now modern day Jews are persecuting them as well
. One day they'll get to the Promised Land.I think he means 'race' as in 100m or 400m hurdles. In which case, he's technically right.
If I had an answer to that I wouldn't be working as a 9-5 average Joe
Though I believe the key is to empower dissenting movements within a particular pariah state. The trouble is, the major powers tend to reinforce and consolidate some of these 'pariah regimes' since it suits their economic and political goals more than the triumph of democracy would, and there's tons of hypocrisy plaguing it. The Yanks for example are more than happy to put their weight behind the Iranian 'green movement' but will stay silent over any pro-democracy campaigning in places like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, where their respective regimes would instead be reinforced. Its not just the US of course but you get the idea.
If the yanks empower dissenting movements, those movements will become discredited by association. The problem is that America's reputation is in tatters in the region. The best hope that MENA has is for the US to pull out support for oppressive regimes then have the UN provide aid to build democratic institutions.
One thing standing in the way of that is the fact that the Middle East was carved up so arbitrarily that you've effectively ended up with theocracies in places like Iraq. As long as people vote along sectarian lines, those movements will spread and the region will remain fecked. You'd need full on devolution before democracy could ever take root, but that would create its own problems in the short to medium term. It'll take 100 years after the oil has run out before the place can ever hope to pull itself up by its bootstraps.
One thing standing in the way of that is the fact that the Middle East was carved up so arbitrarily that you've effectively ended up with theocracies in places like Iraq. As long as people vote along sectarian lines, those movements will spread and the region will remain fecked. You'd need full on devolution before democracy could ever take root, but that would create its own problems in the short to medium term. It'll take 100 years after the oil has run out before the place can ever hope to pull itself up by its bootstraps.
Am I missing something here?
Well I guess it depends on how you define 'race'. I tend to think of it in terms of bloodline, skin color, etc. Can you really say Bashar al-Assad is the same race as Omar al-Bashir? Or the average Ashkenazi Jew the same race as an Ethiopian?
Arabs are bound by a common language, Jews by a common religious heritage. Neither are 'racially' exclusive.