Or just returning from training and without warning they were riddled with bullets.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Unarmed Palestinian farmer shot dead this morning. Milking terrorist cows no doubt.
I'm against illegal immigration, black or white, thanks for asking.
That's the Palestinian version of events. Just like that juicy story about the murder of the bus driver. Why would you automatically adopt one version over another?
Attorney Tarek Barghout, from Palestinian Authority prisoners’ ministry, visited the two men in the hospital twice. One of them, Barghout says, was hit by many bullets and had a bite wound on his arm. The lawyer told Haaretz that the two suspects told him they bought cigarettes at a nearby store and were shot as soon as they lit a match. Immediately after, they were attacked by dogs. They claim the Border Police troops beat them, then dragged them to the base – 300 meters from where they were attacked. They claim they were beaten inside the base as well.
In response to inquiries, a Border Police spokesman said, “During operational activity, a group of individuals was seen just seconds before throwing bombs at security forces. When they saw the Border Policemen, the group attempted to run away and tried again to throw bombs at the policemen. The policemen initiated the protocol for opening fire in order to neutralize the threat. The suspects were apprehended, and a bomb was found on them, which has been deactivated.”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.572103
The way in which Israelis militarise language in order to make everything seem like a conspiracy against them is depressing. Nobody else calls immigrants "infiltrators".
Here's an outline of the recent Israel-Hamas agreement, reached following Protective Edge:
• Hamas and the other terrorist groups in Gaza halt all rocket and mortar fire into Israel.
• Israel stops all military action, including air strikes, ground operations and targeted killings.
• The Palestinian Authority will lead coordination of the reconstruction effort in Gaza with international donors, including the European Union, Qatar, Turkey and Norway. Saudi Arabia is also likely to be a major donor, with the expectation in Jerusalem being that unlike Qatar, it will take pains to ensure that its funds will not be directed to Hamas, but rather to build up the PA.
• Israel is expected to narrow the security buffer – a no-go area for Palestinians that runs along the inside of the Gaza border – reducing it from 300 meters to 100 meters if the truce holds. The move will allow Palestinians more access to farmland close to the border.
• Israel will extend the fishing limit off Gaza’s coast from 3 miles to 6 miles, with the possibility of widening it gradually if the truce holds. Ultimately, the Palestinians want to return to a full 12-mile international allowance.
• Israel agrees to open the Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings to the supervised transfer of goods, including humanitarian aid and reconstruction equipment, into the Gaza Strip.
In a related piece of news that didn't break into your European living rooms, a couple of Palestinian "farmers" crossed the Gaza fence armed with a grenade on Sunday morning. Possibly a Palestinian interpretation of that last bit about transfer of goods.
And you framing it as racism allows you to hold the position that nothing the Israeli government has done or will do can contribute to the problems.
I never said that all the blame for this clusterfeck lies on one side. I did say, and still maintain, that unless there's a will to recognize the right of the JEWISH people for a nation state in part of its historic homeland, there will be absolutely no way forward.
Despite what PedroMendes likes to preach, I don't think this is necessarily good for Israel, but that is the harsh reality.
Eh? It's still racist though.
I think it would be fair to have you address a question- why isn't there a single country, with the exception of Taiwan perhaps, that is singled out for this disgraceful treatment? I mean there are governments that contribute to problems such as the US, UK, Russia, Syria, Congo, Sudan, Lybia and list goes on and on...
What is, calling people infiltrating through a border fencing infiltrators?
Watch the video.
Kazakhstan as well. And 97% of Turkey. And, in the strictest sense, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Well almost none of those countries would ever logically be part of any Asian sports federations for a start.
US, UK and Russia come under constant criticism - and rightly so - for many of their policies.
As for the other examples well they aren't comparable.
I'd argue that Palestine is singled out for worse treatment.
Edit: I notice you keep moving the debate onto something else every time I ask you a difficult question.
If you had an ounce of honesty in you you'd distinguish between the acts of few miserbale feckwits and the official policies. Israel has had to deal with immigration waves on a larger scale per-capita compared with any of the European states that leave those poor immigrants to die at sea. Little wonder that this raises concerns for the stability of the economy, and the country's demographics.
Why is that relevant at all to the thread topic is a mystery to me.
You used the word "racist" and opened the door.
You asked a question and I answered. I then I asked a question which you leave unanswered. Nevermind that you completely missed the point of the post you just quoted.
Aren't your supposed to be a progressive country? It's not very liberal to police demographics.
I did, but discussing MLK here would also be a huge detour.
How would you explain the special treatment Israel gets in world sports, and the deafening silence of world sports federations?
Is the UK progressive?
This coming from you made me laugh.
Now to the point, Its not an isolated incident btw there are others who are detained without any charges or trial. One famous case was of Mahmoud Sarsak who was arrested and jailed without charges for three years and was only released when he went on a three-month hunger strike.
What was the point?
He has nothing to do with Israelis' opinions on non-Jews.
The treatment is wrong, but clearly politically rather than racially motivated. Unlike the UN, majority rules. Blame Democracy.
What right do the Jewish people have to claim a Jewish nation state on that land aside from the fact that they currently live there? I feel uneasy going down this road in the discussion but the way I see it is you're building an entitlement based on history that has long since been overwritten by what followed.
Have to agree with this. There's absolutely no excusing some of the blatant racism directed at African migrants in Israel, especially when it's provoked by shit-stirring politicians.
At the same time, I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced south Tel Aviv can really understand just how out of control the situation is there at times. I spent a year living just north of the worst-affected area, and there is just nothing comparable in any European city I've visited. The city just couldn't handle the sudden vast influx of migrants, a few NGO's tried to help out but there was almost no government regulation or actions directed at solving the problems - thousands of migrants sleeping out in the main park beside the bus station each night, forced to work illegally if possible, the consequent rise in crime and inevitable backlash from the local, largely working-class Mizrachi population. It's a part of the city I enjoyed visiting for its diversity, cheap shopping, etc., but it must be an absolute nightmare to live/raise a family in the area.
This is not to demonize or blame those migrants trying to escape the desperate situations in South Sudan or Eritrea. However, Israel is a tiny country with enough problems of its own already - personally I don't believe any European country would fare much better. Certainly there's nothing particularly admirable about how Spain treats African migrants in Ceuta or Mellila, or how Greece and Italy welcome boats backed with migrants from Libya and elsewhere.
Enjoy the laugh. When you're done with that try to think that the Palestinian version of events, recent and other, is often quite dodgy.
A 47-year long control of a hostile population yields plenty of cases where treamtment of individuals is unjust. Obviously, detaining a person for three years without pressing charges is a good candidate.
Politically they are all against Israel, but never against any other state?
I am blaming democracy, and it's inability to defend itself. As long as the UN grants voting rights to barbaric "nations" around us and elsewhere its decisions bear no moral ground whatsoever anyway.
We can do with European sports until the world gets back to its senses. It's Gareth Bale et al next. I reckon the bubble will burst. Ever the pessimist.
Take those two statements and compare them.
Either Israel is a first world nation and needs to be held to that standard of conduct or it's a "barbaric nation" along with the others you criticise. You can't have it both ways.
So from talking about Palestinian athletes being specifically targeted to 'random individuals of hostile population'. Well done for sidestepping the issue, its been the constant nature of you in this thread.
I provided an alternative scenario for the story you provided. Palestinian footballers can throw explosives at police officers, just like they fellow nationalists who could butcher worshippers in a synagogue. Of course you could describe Tuesday's massacre with "Police kill two Palestinians after Jerusalem synagogue attack" (CNN) or in Palestinian "Two young Palestinians martyred in al-Quds".
I think you are side-stepping the issue here, which is the questionable record of Palestinian official version of events. If you question the Israeli version, then fair enough. Try to analyse as many sources as possible, and reach your own conclusion. A bit tougher than reaching the "Jews did this" conclusion, but it could be an eye-opener.
We currently don't. However, I'm pretty pleased with this one moment of solace in the typically difficult scenario that we find ourselves in. This is the vote in the UN human rights committee on the establishing of a commission of inquiry for the latest Gaza mini-war. There will be a committee, but its moral justification can be readily learnt from this screen.
Morally justified?We currently don't. However, I'm pretty pleased with this one moment of solace in the typically difficult scenario that we find ourselves in. This is the vote in the UN human rights committee on the establishing of a commission of inquiry for the latest Gaza mini-war. There will be a committee, but its moral justification can be readily learnt from this screen.
I've seen you criticise the American war against Iraq, so I know you don't consider them paragons of virtue. I assume you think they are here, though.
The war in Iraq has been a shambles, and the justification for starting it a disgrace.
Still, both me and yourself know fairly well which sets of values represent most of the countries in red/white compared with those in green. We also have a clear preference for the same set.
What? You can't say that because Saudi Arabia hold a particular opinion it must by default be wrong. They were in favour of sanctions against Iran, for example, which I guess you would also have supported. Similar instances apply to other nations on your list of infamy.
And you can't lump red and white together. It's pretty clear there was political pressure applied to a lot of the countries voting white... just like there was when forming the 'coalition of the willing' at the outset of the Iraq war! You see red+white vs. green, whereas I think most would see green+white vs. red. Even if the truth is somewhere in the middle, it's hardly a ringing endorsement of Israel's moral rectitude.
By the way, here's the text of the resolution. If that's the side of 'evil', I don't know what you must consider 'good' to be.
"to urgently dispatch an independent, international commission of inquiry to investigate all violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, particularly in the occupied Gaza Strip, in the context of the military operations conducted since 13 June 2014, and to report to the Council at its twenty-eighth session."
You must be able to spot that something is missing here...
So this is justification for shooting the man dead is it?
On an individual basis Jewish footballers are not denied participating in Arab or African countries when their clubs play in those countries. Israels' non-participation is in big part due to expansionist and racist policies of Israeli government. Its hardly a Jewish/religious issue as HR likes us to believe. It would also be very unwise for a team representing Israel from a safety perspective to visit these Arab countries until such time Israel changes it's policies.
Basically Israel is an apartheid state, and should be treated in the same way South Africa was boycotted during it's reign of terror against it's black population. African and Arab nations are pretty much following that policy. Europe and US should follow the same until they stop terrorising their neighbours.