I wasn't the one who brought up the subject of bombing in WWII.
You still haven't given any reason why it would be beneficial to demolish homes. You are just blindly trusting that it is right when it clearly isn't.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I wasn't the one who brought up the subject of bombing in WWII.
You still haven't given any reason why it would be beneficial to demolish homes. You are just blindly trusting that it is right when it clearly isn't.
That's it, same shit under Stalin too. If you commit a crime, we'll get your family as well.
It's quite clearly not effective in this case though is it?
What makes you think it's "clearly" not beneficial?
It doesn't seem to be effective as a punitive measure. If it was, surely it would reduce attacks from taking place and the Israeli committee that assessed it a few years ago would've declared it a successful policy that should be continued. But instead, they declared a moratorium and stopped it.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.627383
There is a dispute over the effectiveness of home demolitions: The Shin Bet says it has a deterring effect, while the IDF says it doesn't and could even achieve the opposite goal – sowing the seeds to the next attack. Each side presents data affirming its opinion, and there is no one to decide.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4593667,00.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4593667,00.html
I am not sure if it is ever effective though, the Battle of Britain merely strengthened the British resolve. It seems that IDF don't see the benefit of home demolition either.
The thing I really don't get and I've already said this: If there is a decision to be made why are they going ahead with it by default?
That's a good article by the way.
holyland red said:
I suppose the problem stems from the question of how to deter those who are ready and willing to die in the act? House demolitions will only work if potential attackers value their families' homes more than what they see as their divinely-ordained destiny to sacrifice their life as a martyr. I suspect most if not all opt for the latter, making the demolitions ineffective. I'd be interested to see how the Shin Bet and IDF have come to their opposing conclusions.
It is interesting indeed to know how the opposing views are based on the same data. Unfortunately, the IDF and Shin Bet appear to be in dispute too much too often these days.
Last attacks were not suicide attacks. Thankfully, I get the impression that fewer of those murderers are caught alive, but that's not because they had meant to sacrifice their own lives. Imprisonment with PA/EU salary until the next prisoner deal is not the same if the home is gone.
I reckon Israel would not even have to consider murderer home demolition if the EU cut their financial aid to the PA as long as it pays prisoners in Israeli jails on a scale depending on the number of Israelis they murdered.
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What? The EU pays Palestinian prisoner and pays them on a sliding death count scale? Seriously?
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That's true. Also it appears that they were from the supposedly secular PFLP, not that secular groups haven't resorted to suicide attacks before.
The PFLP links have since been discredited. They all love their massacres, often claiming responsibility for attacks they have nothing to do with.
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Another attack by Israelis. since we're on a similar topic.
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=741632
Can anyone tell me what this says please...
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=741632
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=741632
Can anyone tell me what this says please...
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=741632
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You need to make your mind up whether these people are zealots that can't be reasoned with and don't care if their fellow Palestinians die as martyrs, or if they encouraged by payment for their families. You can't just change stance depending on what suits your argument on a given day.
I still can't believe you support a policy when you yourself have said there is no proof for the efficacy of it.
Try to avoid putting words in mouth.
And I've made up my mind long ago. I always maintained that this conflict was not about borders, fresh water, fertile land or other shite that has been spouted here for more than a decade. The Arabs don't want us here. It appears that you have picked a side in this one, in the name of human rights of course, and that's fair enough. Just don't expect me, or any other Israeli for that matter, to follow your interpretation of international law and human rights.
So you're essentially saying "it might be a shitty policy that causes more harm than good but I don't give a shit because of the recent killings against Israelis".
I wonder if Palestinians think the same about all the deaths and destruction that they have experienced.
Her mother said her daughter recognized the driver of the vehicle as a Jewish settler because he was wearing a kippah, a skullcap often worn by religious Jews.
"The incident was carried out in a deliberate manner because he ran her over and fled at high speed, all because my daughter was wearing an abaya and hijab," she said, referring to clothes often worn by religious Muslim women.
In other road accident, a couple of Jews were hit by a Jewish driver. They must be leftist and the driver a settler because they were wearing Che Guevara t-shirts. Aren't you Arabs tired of inciting shabab to their death/injury with your Palywood shite? You still owe us an update on that suicidal bus driver whose death was used by the Arabs for incitement, just a day prior to the synagogue massacre.
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Can anyone tell me what this says please...
What the sign is saying is "We don't employ Arabs here". A depressing reflection of the depressing situation we live in.
Palestinians brought it upon themselves, right? Is there anything Israel could do to Palestinians that isnt justified?
anyway: TimesOfIsrael/netanjahu
anyway: TimesOfIsrael/netanjahu
The implication seems to be "no".
But for some reason this does not apply in the opposite direction.
Looks like we will have to wait for the oil to run out in the middle-east. Then the US wont care about the region.
What does oil have to do with this topic ?
Because life
its as if Israelies are never at fault man.
One of the butchers from the synagogue massacre used to work in in the grocery store across the street, so in a way the answer is yes. Obviously, signs like this and similar comments you hear here are a mix of fear, political opportunism and a measure of pure racism in some cases. You could also refer to it as an economic counter-measure to the BDS. It's not any more racist to what you find European human-right activists promoting in a range of stores near you.
Only that preventing employment an the ground of religion, gender or ethnicity is illegal in Israel this is not something to blame the state for.
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Please let me help you with the answer for the question you've been avoiding:
‘Palestinian coroner agreed with Israeli finding that bus driver committed suicide,’ says medical examiner
The Palestinian rep concurred throughout autopsy that there was no indication of foul play in death of Palestinian driver who was found hanged, says Dr. Chen Kogel.
The Palestinian coroner, who was present during the autopsy of the Palestinian bus driver who was found dead on Sunday in Jerusalem, agreed that the cause of death was suicide, insists the Israeli director of the institute that performed the autopsy.
The death of the driver Yusuf Hassan al-Ramouni, who was found hanged inside his bus in Jerusalem, has been treated in the Palestinian media and street as a murder perpetrated by Jews.
Abu Kabir Institute of Forensic Medicine director Dr. Chen Kogel notes that Palestinian pathologist Dr. Saber Al-Aloul, appointed by the family of the driver, was present throughout the autopsy and concurred with the conclusion that the cause of death was suicide.
“Al-Aloul was present at the autopsy and he was asked his opinion and he agreed with the analysis of the findings,” says Kogel. “I can’t understand what happened since. I’m stunned that such a different version of things was reported,” says Kogel.
The preliminary autopsy report points to suicide by hanging, and finds no indication of any foul play. Fluids from the deceased’s body have also been sent to the Health Ministry toxicology lab at Tel Hashomer Hospital to rule out any possibility of poisoning or drugging, with the test results expected within two weeks.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.627322
Aren't you concerned with the possibility that the cynical use of this death resulted in the unnecessary deaths of the two martyrs from Tuesday's massacre?
Thanks for enlightening me! This changes everything!!
Considering what you're saying translates to "The policy's effectiveness is in doubt, but as long as it's Jews who are being slaughtered let the Arabs enjoy the benefit of the doubt until we have a lrger sample size", I'm OK with your interpretation.
I'm not sure why you are that concerned though. Is it fear of increased taxes? Let me guess. You are worried that financing murderers would be tougher if they have to do some home construction on top of prison canteen expenses.
How on earth does what I say translate to that?
It's not just a question of whether the policy helps or not. It's the fact that there's a very good chance that it is making things worse. You know, like what the IDF are saying? Why would you want to continue with a policy that could be making things worse?
It doesn't, but unless you are in the business of inciting our fellow caftards into e-massacring me perhaps you could wait a bit before posing your Pallywood dramas.
BTW, this is from the Fatah Facebook page. Yes, these are the moderate bunch (Abbas et al.):
Until there's evidence to the contrary, there's a good chance that it stops things from being worse (like the Shin Bet is claiming). In fact, I'd argue that the latter is more sensible.
Refreshing to see your likes cling to IDF arguments. As if this mess isn't surreal enough already.
Do you know what side I'm on? Did you know that all my brothers and sisters are Jewish?
I'm using your own statements as part of my argument as I was hoping you wouldn't be able to refute your own statements.
If palestinians try to resist within the framework of political instituions, they are political terrorist. If they try to resist in terms of economic boycott, they are economic terrorists and when they resist with violence, they are just terrorists. The answer from Israel is always the same: violence.
We reached a point where the double standard becomes absurd. The death of one Israeli justifies collective punishments, killings and structural suppression, while the death of many palestinians mean nothing and have no consequences. Palestinian life has little value in the eye´s of the Israeli government. Killing any number is okay, if it fits the bill.
You should have at least the balls to call a spade a spade. Israel is in the position of power and is not interested in compromise. Israel wants peace but under their conditions, which means that Palestinians have to bow down and give up everything. Land. Equality. Self-determination. Independence. Resistence isnt allowed.
I am not even that annoyed by Israel. Stats often act in total disregard of any moral if they can benefit from it. Understandably the citizens of Israel are radicalised and dont feel any empathy towards the other side. Under this conditions, I expect archaic behaviour. The astoneshing thing is that other countries, including my own, are supporting this shit under the guise of morality and reason.
We reached a point where the double standard becomes absurd. The death of one Israeli justifies collective punishments, killings and structural suppression, while the death of many palestinians mean nothing and have no consequences. Palestinian life has little value in the eye´s of the Israeli government. Killing any number is okay, if it fits the bill.
You should have at least the balls to call a spade a spade. Israel is in the position of power and is not interested in compromise. Israel wants peace but under their conditions, which means that Palestinians have to bow down and give up everything. Land. Equality. Self-determination. Independence. Resistence isnt allowed.
I am not even that annoyed by Israel. Stats often act in total disregard of any moral if they can benefit from it. Understandably the citizens of Israel are radicalised and dont feel any empathy towards the other side. Under this conditions, I expect archaic behaviour. The astoneshing thing is that other countries, including my own, are supporting this shit under the guise of morality and reason.
This is going one better than Dave Wheln's "hundreds of Jewish friends".
Rant over?
Palestinians deny our right for self-determination. Until they change their mind they are not going to get anything more than they already have.
You're also wrong in that last paragraph in that the situation here is unprecedented. The supposedly "oppressed" here is not content with anything less than its rival vanishing from the face of the earth. Pretty tough to compromise with that, don't you think?
Don't compare me to someone who has said anti-semetic and racist comments and say I've gone one better, that's completely unfair and you're just trying to score points and wind me up now.
The point I'm trying to make is you're trying to put me on a certain "side" at the same time as framing this as a conflict between Arabs and Jews. I'm criticising certain opinions and policies for a start - that doesn't make me against Israel or anti-jew. You know nothing about me and my background, one which would place me squarely in the "middle" growing up. Not that I believe that it is all about Arabs and Jews.
Denying the Jewish people's right for self-determination, i.e. a Jewish Israel is and has always been the very core issue of the Arab-Jewish conflict. Portraying the Arabs as the victims, "oppressed" or whatever "human rights" activists like to call them in a conflict they are sworn to continue until they rival disappear is a choice you are entitled to.
I'll not call you a Whelan if you return a favour and quit using "international law", human rights and morals as automatic choice buzzwords. It winds me up.