I wasn't aware our supermarket branches in Britain and Ireland were firing rockets with the intent to kill innocent civilians.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I wasn't aware our supermarket branches in Britain and Ireland were firing rockets with the intent to kill innocent civilians.
He is a veto player in the current government. I never denied that this can change in the democratic process. Since 2005 over 80.000 new settler are living on contested ground. Its fair to say, that the interests of settlers are well represented in every single government since 2005.
I compare two people who have a similar job in each government. Both reject a peaceful two-state solution. Both have a religious backround. I am pretty sure the Palestinian guy could be replaced as well. When a palestinian politician rejects the two-state solution, its an insuperable obstacle for peace. When an israeli politician in a similar position does the same its not noteworthy. The double-standard couldnt be more obvious.
I wont make further comments on this specific issue, because there is nothing more to discuss. Feel free to have the final say.
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Depends which endgame from each side you want to believe.
Your version that Israel just want to live in peace while Hamas want destruction of the Jewish state then it is obvious which side everyone would be on.
The alternative version which is that Israel wants to continue their oppression and separation of the Palestinian people while the Palestinians want an end to the oppression so they can live normal lives would result in a different opinion.
But hey, everyone isn't on Israel's side, so it's clearly not as simple as the first option and neither is everyone on the Palestinian's side, so it isn't as simple as the second option either. So boys, boys, boys, study all the facts and then make up your mind as opposed to looking for endgames. The average Israeli's endgame is probably very different to the endgame of the IDF in the same way the average Palestinian's endgame would be different to the endgame of Hamas.
IDF confirms three Gaza rockets hit open areas in south despite ceasefire
Netanyahu orders IDF to respond with fire after three rockets were launched from Gaza hours before long term ceasefire deal excepted to be signed.
The IDF have confirmed that three rockets fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel fell near Be'er Sheva, breaking a ceasefire set to expire at midnight and prompting the IDF to respond.
The rocket attack came hours before a ceasefire deal was exepcted to be signed in Cairo, but in wake of the attack Israel decided to recall its delegation, which was still in Egypt holding indirect talks with Hamas when rockets began to fall. The move seems to indicate that attempts at reaching a deal have collapsed. Palestinians for their part claim the IDF targeted Gaza before the rocket fire.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4560337,00.html
Netanyahu orders IDF to respond with fire after three rockets were launched from Gaza hours before long term ceasefire deal excepted to be signed.
The IDF have confirmed that three rockets fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel fell near Be'er Sheva, breaking a ceasefire set to expire at midnight and prompting the IDF to respond.
The rocket attack came hours before a ceasefire deal was exepcted to be signed in Cairo, but in wake of the attack Israel decided to recall its delegation, which was still in Egypt holding indirect talks with Hamas when rockets began to fall. The move seems to indicate that attempts at reaching a deal have collapsed. Palestinians for their part claim the IDF targeted Gaza before the rocket fire.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4560337,00.html
Its less strident in different parts of the Muslim world. Probably more intense among countries who have fought against Israel over the past 65 years.
Are there examples of a thriving Jewish community in Muslim countries that have not been not fighting Israel? I am particularly thinking of Algeria and Morocco, where most of the Jews were turfed out despite no direct conflict over Israel/Palestine. I think it is most intense wherever the local strongman needs a weather vane to direct the populace's attention away from misrule and corruption.
Historically? Christianity has harmed Jews more than Islam. Hostilities between the Jews and Muslims have flared up ever since the creation of Israel, but I'm not aware of much friction prior to this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Someone doesn't want the deal to be signed.
I don't think there are any thriving Jewish communities anywhere in the Middle East, but I could be wrong.
What's the flag in the middle?
Historically speaking Christianity is worse. Christians discriminated Jews for at least 700-800 eventually for over 1000 years. Its an absolute disgrace. Took them till 1962/65 to knowledge that its not right to blame a whole religion and all their followers for the death of jesus; but thats offtopic.
Of course antisemitism is even worse in countries that are/were directly involved with Israel, but the hate doesnt only come from the Israel - Palestine conflict. If someone follow the ethics of a medieval warlord, nobody should be surprised that these teachings comprise brutal and discriminating acts. My personal knowledge is limited. I read, that till the early/mid 19th century Islam discriminated equally
. Eventually (christian) western colonialism/imperialism exported and promoted antisemitism in the middle east in the 19th century. There is evidence for plenty pogroms around 1850. I guess its easy to spread hate. The foundation of Israel ignited the whole thing and took it to the next level.Historically speaking Christianity is worse. Christians discriminated Jews for at least 700-800 eventually for over 1000 years. Its an absolute disgrace. Took them till 1962/65 to knowledge that its not right to blame a whole religion and all their followers for the death of jesus; but thats offtopic.
Of course antisemitism is even worse in countries that are/were directly involved with Israel, but the hate doesnt only come from the Israel - Palestine conflict. If someone follow the ethics of a medieval warlord, nobody should be surprised that these teachings comprise brutal and discriminating acts. My personal knowledge is limited. I read, that till the early/mid 19th century Islam discriminated equally
Arab nationalism, and collaborations with Nazi Germany against the Brits, led to a series of pogroms in the 1940's.
Christianity has committed many historical atrocities against Jews but I struggle to see the relevance in 2014. Even the well-publicised rise of anti-semitism in Europe is largely attributable to extremists within the Muslim communities in those countries. It is all irrelevant to the question of Israel anyway - from its perspective, there appear to be no stable neighbours with whom they could make a lasting peace.
From what I read, most Palestiinian groups involved in the negotiations wanted the deal. Hamas was torn from inside, with the powers who don't live in the Gaza strip being against it. Not surprisingly, it's Hamas who has fired the rockets and started it all over again.
Anyhow, unlike previous occasions when few rockets were fired, only to the south, and then it stopped, the ceasefire has completely collapsed and there have been many over the last few hours, now reaching Tel Aviv as well. Not sure what's next, really.
There is NO Palestinian leader accepting a Jewish Israel. None. That's some difference between the two sides. Here, I've just had the final say.
Looks like the Israelis went after a Hamas leader and managed to kill his wife and kid instead. Well done indeed. (Sarcasm)
It appears Chomsky and his groupies don't really have a clue...
Hamas admits to kidnapping three Israeli teens
Two months after Gil-Ad Shaer, Naftali Frenkel and Eyal Yifrah were murdered near Hebron, top Hamas official admits groups' operatives behind 'heroic' kidnap, murder of teens.
A senior Hamas religious figure admitted Wednesday that Hamas had kidnapped and murdered Gil-Ad Shaer, Naftali Frenkel and Eyal Yifrah, the three Israeli teens who disappeared June 12th only to be found dead three weeks later after a massive IDF search mission.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4561387,00.html
IDF, Shin Bet killed three senior al-Qassam Brigades commanders
Air Force hits 20 targets across the Strip since midnight, at least 6 Palestinians killed in IAF strikes; on Israeli side, only 2 rockets fired so far since midnight, causing no injuries or damages.
While the fate of top Hamas commander Mohammed Deif remains unclear after an assassination attempt, the organization's military wing said Thursday that Israel killed three of its senior commanders - Rafah Division commander Raed al-Attar, Southern Division commander Mohammed Abu Shmallah and Mohammed Barhoum in an overnight strike.
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigade said the three were killed in a bombing of a house in the southern town of Rafah. The targeted killing was a joint operation of the Shin Bet and IDF. The Shin Bet confirmed the killing of al-Attar and Abu Shmallah, but not Barhoum's.
Abu Shmallah and al-Attar were two of the most senior commanders in the al-Qassam Brigades. Abu Shmallah, the most senior commander in southern Gaza, was in charge of the Rafah and Khan Younis area. The IAF struck 20 targets across the Gaza Strip since midnight, including rocket launching posts and weapons manufacturing facilities.
At least six Palestinians were killed early Thursday in the Gaza Strip from Israel Air Force strikes, Palestinian police said. Gazan police said the strike destroyed a four-story structure in the southern town of Rafah and that rescue workers were still searching for people trapped in the rubble. On the Israeli side, despite Hamas threats it would fire rockets at Ben Gurion International Airport on Thursday, only two rockets were fired since midnight - one intercepted over Ofakim, and another hitting open area in Eshkol. No injuries or damages reported. This was in stark contrast to Wednesday, when 168 rockets were fired from the Strip at Israel, breaking a new all-time high record.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4561450,00.html
Meanwhile, the leader of the free world mumbled that: "ISIS has no place in the 21st century". Thanks Barack....that will strike fear into those savages who murder 1000s every day thanks to a US response to being attacked. Once.
After all the calculated attempts to destroy Hamas, they finally actually got a few? And only 6 innocents went with them? Bravo!
Six innocents?
http://www.btselem.org/press_releas...stand_by_while_settlers_throw_stone_in_hebron
Hebron, 3 video segments: Soldiers overlook settlers' violent actions, take measures when Palestinians throw stones
Published:
20 Aug 2014
On 16 August 2014, after 6:00 P.M., settlers and Palestinians began throwing stones at each other behind the Beit Hadassah settlement in the city of Hebron. The settlers were throwing stones from a spot near a military guard post, yet the soldiers stationed there did nothing to stop them. Nonetheless, the soldiers used crowd control measures against the Palestinians who were throwing stones, and even detained two, one of them a boy.
Soldiers behind Beit Hadassah stand by while a female settler throws stones close by, 16 August 2014, 6:17 P.M.:
Filmed by Narmeen Abu Hayah
Soldiers behind Beit Hadassah stand by while nearby masked settlers throw stones, 16 August 2014, 6:30 P.M.:
Filmed by Nisreen Sader
The soldiers detained Mahmoud Abu Hayah, a B'Tselem camera volunteer who also recorded the incident. They kept him there for two hours after the incident, but did not take him to the police station.
Some nine months ago, on 10 November 2013, the same B'Tselem camera volunteer filmed soldiers standing by at the very same spot while a settler threw stones:
Filmed at 4:00 P.M. by Mahmoud Abu Hayah
Each of the three segments indicates that the soldiers disregarded their duty to protect the Palestinians in the area during these incidents: they took no steps to stop the settlers' violent actions, while taking measures only against violent actions by Palestinians. Moreover, it appears that the soldiers made no attempt to identify masked settlers or detain any settlers at all and hold them until the police could arrive to ensure proper law enforcement.
The reality created by Israel's occupation of Hebron gives rise to frequent skirmishes between settlers and Palestinians in the city. The military is duty-bound to take action to enforce the law on both parties. Refraining from action against violent settlers conveys a message that settlers may attack Palestinians and their property and get military protection to do so.
Hebron, 3 video segments: Soldiers overlook settlers' violent actions, take measures when Palestinians throw stones
Published:
20 Aug 2014
On 16 August 2014, after 6:00 P.M., settlers and Palestinians began throwing stones at each other behind the Beit Hadassah settlement in the city of Hebron. The settlers were throwing stones from a spot near a military guard post, yet the soldiers stationed there did nothing to stop them. Nonetheless, the soldiers used crowd control measures against the Palestinians who were throwing stones, and even detained two, one of them a boy.
Soldiers behind Beit Hadassah stand by while a female settler throws stones close by, 16 August 2014, 6:17 P.M.:
Filmed by Narmeen Abu Hayah
Soldiers behind Beit Hadassah stand by while nearby masked settlers throw stones, 16 August 2014, 6:30 P.M.:
Filmed by Nisreen Sader
The soldiers detained Mahmoud Abu Hayah, a B'Tselem camera volunteer who also recorded the incident. They kept him there for two hours after the incident, but did not take him to the police station.
Some nine months ago, on 10 November 2013, the same B'Tselem camera volunteer filmed soldiers standing by at the very same spot while a settler threw stones:
Filmed at 4:00 P.M. by Mahmoud Abu Hayah
Each of the three segments indicates that the soldiers disregarded their duty to protect the Palestinians in the area during these incidents: they took no steps to stop the settlers' violent actions, while taking measures only against violent actions by Palestinians. Moreover, it appears that the soldiers made no attempt to identify masked settlers or detain any settlers at all and hold them until the police could arrive to ensure proper law enforcement.
The reality created by Israel's occupation of Hebron gives rise to frequent skirmishes between settlers and Palestinians in the city. The military is duty-bound to take action to enforce the law on both parties. Refraining from action against violent settlers conveys a message that settlers may attack Palestinians and their property and get military protection to do so.
Suits Israel down to the ground.They probably are happen to create a generation of physically sick people.
Its a war crime.
Hehe...Ms. Pillay. It's the idiot who suggested Israel should supply Iron Dome to the Palestinians. She and her comrades at the UN council for human rights should concern themselves with the genocide in Iraq.
How are the Chomskies doing in light of the recent Hamas admission of the kidnapping and murder of the three teenagers, Greg?
How are the Chomskies doing in light of the recent Hamas admission of the kidnapping and murder of the three teenagers, Greg?
You don't have to sound like a complete cnut. Even if you are one show some constraint, people are dying.
Hey, Ihab...long time no hear. How are you doing? Heard Lucy Ahrish took your advice and decided to feck off somewhere else. Things are indeed not rosey.
Were you also one of those suggesting the whole kidnapping and murder episode was staged by Israel as a pretext for an attack on Gaza?
Were you also one of those suggesting the whole kidnapping and murder episode was staged by Israel as a pretext for an attack on Gaza?
There is no answer to little infants being let starve and be malnourished. Its a pure evil act.
Hence he has to divert. He suffers from classic "blame the victim".
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He doesn't. He, like other Israelis, is just used to the rest of the world's clueless condemnation of what Israel is doing. Meanwhile, you don't learn any lessons from Islamic extremists in the Middle East and across Europe. Hamas and Islamic State are really not all that different from one another. Imagine having them on your doorstep. It's frightening stuff.
There is no starvation in Gaza, fanboy. There is in Iraq though.
The blockade of the Gaza Strip has reached its fifth year. I have visited Palestine twice in the last few years and witnessed the problems Palestinians are facing first hand.This report, by Save the Children and Medical Aid for Palestinians, lifts the lid on the human impact of the blockade placed on one of the most densely populated areas on earth. It gives a vital insight into the way in which the blockade has invaded every level and aspect of children’s lives in Gaza: domestic, communal, and environmental, as well as social, educational, psychological and physical. Despite Israel’s ‘easing’ of the blockade in 2010, families
continue to suffer from food insecurity and remain critically dependent on food assistance. Gaza’s health sector is still suffering from shortages of equipment and medical supplies and is struggling to recover from conflict. Poor housing conditions, overcrowded schools and a heavily polluted environment are also exacting a high price on children’s mental and physical health.
As of June 2012, the blockade of Gaza will be five years old. This report shows that the extensive restrictions placed on the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza continues to have a real and negative impact on the lives and health of Gaza’s children. The blockade has been the single greatest
contributor to endemic and long-lasting household poverty in Gaza.
Professor Stephenson. (President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health UK)
Stunting, or long-term exposure to chronic malnutrition, remains high, found among 10% of children under five.
Anaemia, usually caused by dietary iron deficiency, affects most children in Gaza(60% of school children) and one third of pregnant women.
http://www.barnaheill.is/media/PDF/Gaza_Health_Report_FINALLR.pdf
continue to suffer from food insecurity and remain critically dependent on food assistance. Gaza’s health sector is still suffering from shortages of equipment and medical supplies and is struggling to recover from conflict. Poor housing conditions, overcrowded schools and a heavily polluted environment are also exacting a high price on children’s mental and physical health.
As of June 2012, the blockade of Gaza will be five years old. This report shows that the extensive restrictions placed on the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza continues to have a real and negative impact on the lives and health of Gaza’s children. The blockade has been the single greatest
contributor to endemic and long-lasting household poverty in Gaza.
Professor Stephenson. (President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health UK)
Stunting, or long-term exposure to chronic malnutrition, remains high, found among 10% of children under five.
Anaemia, usually caused by dietary iron deficiency, affects most children in Gaza(60% of school children) and one third of pregnant women.
http://www.barnaheill.is/media/PDF/Gaza_Health_Report_FINALLR.pdf
I recommend eating beef for anaemia. Less rockets, more beef. Qatari money could finance beef imports from Australia.
About as well as you did when your police chief admitted it probably wasn't Hamas but a rogue element/ more extreme group that did it.
Speaking of which,
Claim by Saleh al-Arouri, a founder of Hamas's military wing, is doubted by experts and not supported by other Hamas sources
A veteran Hamas official has said that the Islamist group was behind the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank – an incident that triggered the current brutal war in Gaza.
Saleh al-Arouri, one of the founders of Hamas's military wing, made his comments at a conference in Istanbul, where he lives in exile. A tape of his comments was posted online by conference organisers.
"There was much speculation about this operation; some said it was a conspiracy," al-Arouri said at a meeting of the International Union of Islamic Scholars on Wednesday.
"The popular will was exercised throughout our occupied land, and culminated in the heroic operation by [Hamas's armed wing] the Qassam Brigades in imprisoning the three settlers in Hebron."
His claim has not been supported by any other member of Hamas.
It is the first time that any senior Hamas figure has linked the group to the abduction of Eyal Yifrah, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Frenkel, 16, whose kidnapping and murder led to a spiral of violence that grippedIsrael and the West Bank and culminated in the current war in Gaza, which has so far left more than 2,000 Palestinians and 64 Israeli soldiers dead, as well as two Israeli civilians and a Thai migrant worker.
Israel has always maintained that Hamas was behind the abduction, and launched a massive operation in the West Bank against the group in June and July, during which dozens of members were arrested. Hamas has so far refused to confirm or deny its involvement, and a spokesman could not be reached for comment on Thursday.
Al-Arouri's role in Hamas dates back to the 1990s, according to a US indictment issued in 2003, when he was a student at Hebron University.Amnesty International in 2012 described him as one of the founding members of the Qassam Brigades.
According to Matthew Levitt, an analyst with the Washington Institute, al-Arouri was forced to leave Israel in 2010 after serving more than 15 years in prison for actions related to his Hamas membership. He lived in exile in Syria until the unrest during the Arab spring, when he moved to Turkey.
Hugh Lovatt, Israel and Palestine coordinator at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said that while al-Arouri was a significant Hamas figure – serving as the group's most prominent representative in Turkey – the former militant could have an ulterior motive for making his claim.
"Given the timing I would be very suspicious about his claim. I still don't believe Hamas as an organisation and its upper echelons sanctioned the kidnappings – something that Israeli intelligence also believes," he said.
Lovatt said that al-Arouri may be trying to claim credit for the actions of others in an attempt to demonstrate his own continued sway in the West Bank and Hamas's ability to hit Israel after failing to secure significant concessions after six weeks of violence in Gaza.
"A second, more remote possibility, is that al-Arouri is telling the truth and that he has operated on his own initiative – a development with very worrying repercussions as it would imply a serious power struggle and splintering within Hamas," he said.
Reuters reported on Wednesday that the three teenagers, who had been hitch-hiking near the Israeli settlement of Gush Etzion, were shot ten times soon after being taken. The man believed to be the ringleader of the kidnapping, Hussam Qawasme, is in Israeli custody, but two others believed to be his accomplices are still at large. Last week, Israeli military bulldozed the homes of two of the men and damaged another.
The murders led to a revenge attack during which three rightwing Israelis kidnapped and murdered 17-year-old Mohammed Abu Khdeir, leading to some of the worst street violence in Jerusalem in a decade.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eli-teenagers-saleh-al-arouri-qassam-brigades
£500k - thats how much a tunnel costs to complete. There are hundreds of them.
Imagine the medicines, hospitals and kindergartens that could have been built.
But you can't, can you.
Well thats a bunch of trustworthy sources. And in Guardian font too.
http://www.barnaheill.is/media/PDF/Gaza_Health_Report_FINALLR.pdf
The Palestinian Authority devotes around 11% of its Gross Domestic Product to healthcare, more than most middle-income countries. In addition, hundreds of millions of dollars in international aid are directed towards the occupied Palestinian territory every year and yet child health in Gaza is deteriorating. Aid is helping to reduce many of the symptoms of this crisis but its solution demands political will.
The Palestinian Authority devotes around 11% of its Gross Domestic Product to healthcare, more than most middle-income countries. In addition, hundreds of millions of dollars in international aid are directed towards the occupied Palestinian territory every year and yet child health in Gaza is deteriorating. Aid is helping to reduce many of the symptoms of this crisis but its solution demands political will.
Perhaps you should insist your foreign aid goes towards healthcare instead of salaries to convicted Palestinian mass-murderers in Israeli prisons.
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