Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

Interesting none of our Israeli cousins have not commented on the article.
 
Pretty boring development compared to transfer deadline day activity, to be honest. Regardless, it's one of many meaningless decisions that make no real change to what would be the only reasonable territorial settlement. The differences are far greater than this small chunk of land in Gush Etzion.
 
Pretty boring development compared to transfer deadline day activity, to be honest. Regardless, it's one of many meaningless decisions that make no real change to what would be the only reasonable territorial settlement. The differences are far greater than this small chunk of land in Gush Etzion.

Seriously?
 
Well, you'd expect that which is why the whole thing is pointless. The area in question would remain a part of Israel in any peace deal as part of the proposed land swap anyway. Considering construction there would not take place for quite a while too, this appears to be nothing more than a spiteful gesture. As I said, pointless.
 
Pretty boring development compared to transfer deadline day activity, to be honest. Regardless, it's one of many meaningless decisions that make no real change to what would be the only reasonable territorial settlement. The differences are far greater than this small chunk of land in Gush Etzion.

Lots of small pieces of land end up as one big piece of land
 
Well, you'd expect that which is why the whole thing is pointless. The area in question would remain a part of Israel in any peace deal as part of the proposed land swap anyway. Considering construction there would not take place for quite a while too, this appears to be nothing more than a spiteful gesture. As I said, pointless.

So it's okay for Israel to do it even though no such deal has been agreed upon?
 
I think I made it clear in my post what I thought of the timing of this statement. The UN, US, UK and EU did their part, as you lot have. Nothing out of the ordinary, as I argued before.
 
That's the problem, though. Isreal taking all the land it pleases being ordinary.

The land it won back in a defensive war. From Jordan. Who nicked it from...?

After Hamas's last escapade, any withdrawal for the so called West Bank (and just why is it called that I wonder?) is off the menu big time.
 
And here we go again.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-hussam-qawasmeh-kidnapped-teenagers-murder

According to Shin Bet, only four people were directly involved in the plan initially, while seven others "were let in on the secret" afterwards amid efforts to hide those involved.

Despite the suspects' close links to Hamas, an unnamed Shin Bet officer quoted in Haaretz appeared to confirm that the agency believed the kidnapping was not directly ordered by the Hamas leadership in Gaza, but was a largely independent operation by a local cell.



If we see the boasts of some (not all, and not the chief) Hamas leaders as simply boasts to improve their popularity and somewhat justify the conflict in Gaza, it's again clear that the basis of this entire massacre was fraudulent.



Why should I consider their work as a boast and believe these stories?

1. Israel has a good intelligence network. If they had wanted to charge more people and believed they could link the Hamas organisation with the conspiracy, they would. (In fact, some of the Snowden files revealed that Israel gets all the data the NSA and GCHQ collects-i.e., all personal electronic communications on the internet)

2. Hamas had just signed a deal with Fatah which would suggest that war wasn't big on their agenda. Going to war would harden Gazans (and other Palestinians) in their favour, true, but would also cost them heavily in leadership and weaponry and logistics (or maybe they could predict how often the Israelis "targeting" Hamas would hit civillians.

3. Netanyahu's numbers were down (I think) and it was time for the bi-annual war which makes sure that
a. Prospects for a peace deal look worse to all Israelis, and thus,
b. Elections will go in favour of the more hawkish parties.

4. Those who have indicated that this was not a Hamas leadership approved operation (the Israeli police chief, unnamed Shin Beth sources, the suspects' lawyer!) gain nothing by saying so. Hamas will gain popularity, especially in the aftermath of a massacre of Palestinians. So only 1 bunch has a vested interest in lying.

In other words, Netanyahu has a bigger vested interest : in deflecting international attention from the Hamas-Fatah tieup which gave him the excuse to bury talks he never wanted) , and in hardening public opinion in Israel against peace.
Hamas have a vested interest in conflict but the harm it does them this time I think outweighs the popularity bump they received.

This combined with the steady and consistent stories from the Israel side make me pretty sure.

The man Israel accuses of being the mastermind of a plot in which three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and murdered earlier this summer has been charged with organising and funding the attack.

According to reports from the closed hearing, the group had only intended to kidnap one hitchhiker and keep him alive, but snatched three instead: Eyal Yifrach, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, Naftali Frankel, also 16. The teenagers were killed a few hours later when an unspecified part of the plot went wrong.

Details of the case against Hussam Qawasmeh, 40, a Palestinian from the West Bank city of Hebron, close to where the three were seized returning home from their religious schools, were briefed by the domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet to the Israeli media.

The account of the alleged plot, culled from the indictment and briefings, paints the fullest picture yet of the events surrounding the seizure and murder of the three men in June. The case sent shockwaves through Israeli society and was a large motivation for the devastating recent Israeli military incursion in Gaza and a justification for the largestappropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank by Israel in 30 years.

Hussam Qawasmeh was apparently originally lukewarm about the plan proposed to him by a relative, Marwan Qawasmeh, who with Amer Abu Aisheh has been named as having carried out the kidnapping and murder and is still wanted by Israel.

Hussam is also accused of helping to hide the two other suspects, including a period spent sheltering underground in a disused cistern.

Hussam was arrested on 11 July in the Shuafat refugee camp in Jerusalem. He apparently planned to flee to Jordan on a false passport.

According to Shin Bet, only four people were directly involved in the plan initially, while seven others "were let in on the secret" afterwards amid efforts to hide those involved.

Despite the suspects' close links to Hamas, an unnamed Shin Bet officer quoted in Haaretz appeared to confirm that the agency believed the kidnapping was not directly ordered by the Hamas leadership in Gaza, but was a largely independent operation by a local cell.

Following the discovery of the three bodies after a huge manhunt in the West Bank, Israeli security forces arrested hundreds of members of Hamas on the West Bank.

According to details of the indictment, Hussam Qawasmeh has previously been jailed in Israel for his involvement with Hamas. He also solicited money from his brother – a former prisoner released in exchange for thekidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in 2011 and deported to Gaza – for an unspecified "military operation". The money – delivered in three tranches by a female courier – was used to buy cars used in the kidnapping, two M-16 rifles and two handguns.

Hussam reportedly told the Shin Bet officers interrogating him that he learned the kidnapping had gone wrong at 1am on 13 June, a few hours after the youths were snatched at a hitchhiking spot popular with settlers. Marwan came to him and said: "We wanted to kidnap one but we got three. We messed up. We killed them."

The teenagers were buried on land bought by Hussam – and registered in his own name – earlier in the year.

A third Qawasmeh brother is currently serving a life sentence for his involvement in an attack in Jerusalem in which a British tourist died.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29179655

Israeli intelligence veterans refuse to spy on Palestinians


Dozens of veterans of an elite Israeli military signals intelligence unit have said they will no longer serve in operations against Palestinians.
Forty-three past and present reservists signed a letter about Unit 8200, which carries out electronic surveillance.

They said the intelligence it gathered - much of it concerning innocent people - was used to "deepen military rule" in the Occupied Territories.

Israel's military said it held the unit to ethical standards "without rival".

Israel has occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, since 1967. It pulled its troops and settlers out of Gaza in 2005, though the UN still regards Gaza as under Israeli occupation.

'Serious doubt'
Unit 8200 is the Israeli military's central intelligence gathering body and is often likened to the US National Security Agency (NSA).

The protest letter signed by the veterans of the unit was sent to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and armed forces chiefs.

Intelligence allows ongoing control over millions of people, thorough and intrusive monitoring and invasion into most aspects of life”

Letter by Unit 8200 veterans

The newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth quoted the letter as saying that unlike in other countries there was "no oversight on methods of intelligence or tracking, and the use of intelligence information against the Palestinians, regardless of whether they are connected to violence or not".

"We refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as a tool for deepening military rule in the Occupied Territories," the letter added.

"Intelligence allows ongoing control over millions of people, thorough and intrusive monitoring and invasion into most aspects of life. All of this does not allow for normal living, fuels more violence and puts off any end to the conflict."

The names of the signatories were not published, but they include officers, former instructors and senior NCOs.

Several told Israeli media that hey had been tasked with gathering private information - including sexual preferences and health problems - that could be "used to extort people into becoming informants".

They also claimed that some intelligence was collected in pursuit of the "agendas" of individual Israeli politicians.

The Israeli military spokesman's office said in a statement that Unit 8200 personnel were held to ethical standards "without rival in the intelligence community in Israel or the world", and had internal mechanisms for filing misconduct complaints, Reuters news agency reported.

That the letter writers went first to the media "raises serious doubt as to the seriousness of their claims", the statement added.

Former Israeli military intelligence chief Amos Yadlin dismissed the signatories as a "fringe percentage" of those working for Unit 8200.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29179655

Israeli intelligence veterans refuse to spy on Palestinians


Dozens of veterans of an elite Israeli military signals intelligence unit have said they will no longer serve in operations against Palestinians.
Forty-three past and present reservists signed a letter about Unit 8200, which carries out electronic surveillance.

They said the intelligence it gathered - much of it concerning innocent people - was used to "deepen military rule" in the Occupied Territories.

Israel's military said it held the unit to ethical standards "without rival".

Israel has occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, since 1967. It pulled its troops and settlers out of Gaza in 2005, though the UN still regards Gaza as under Israeli occupation.

'Serious doubt'
Unit 8200 is the Israeli military's central intelligence gathering body and is often likened to the US National Security Agency (NSA).

The protest letter signed by the veterans of the unit was sent to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and armed forces chiefs.

Intelligence allows ongoing control over millions of people, thorough and intrusive monitoring and invasion into most aspects of life”

Letter by Unit 8200 veterans

The newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth quoted the letter as saying that unlike in other countries there was "no oversight on methods of intelligence or tracking, and the use of intelligence information against the Palestinians, regardless of whether they are connected to violence or not".

"We refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as a tool for deepening military rule in the Occupied Territories," the letter added.

"Intelligence allows ongoing control over millions of people, thorough and intrusive monitoring and invasion into most aspects of life. All of this does not allow for normal living, fuels more violence and puts off any end to the conflict."

The names of the signatories were not published, but they include officers, former instructors and senior NCOs.

Several told Israeli media that hey had been tasked with gathering private information - including sexual preferences and health problems - that could be "used to extort people into becoming informants".

They also claimed that some intelligence was collected in pursuit of the "agendas" of individual Israeli politicians.

The Israeli military spokesman's office said in a statement that Unit 8200 personnel were held to ethical standards "without rival in the intelligence community in Israel or the world", and had internal mechanisms for filing misconduct complaints, Reuters news agency reported.

That the letter writers went first to the media "raises serious doubt as to the seriousness of their claims", the statement added.

Former Israeli military intelligence chief Amos Yadlin dismissed the signatories as a "fringe percentage" of those working for Unit 8200.

Very interesting. Good to know there are a few consciencious Israelis out there.
 
B'Tselem: not holding out hope that investigations into Gaza hostilities will lead to results other than whitewash
Published:
10 Sep 2014
In response to the MAG corps announcement detailing some of the investigations opened into "exceptional" cases during operation Protective Edge, Israeli human rights group B'Tselem stated that based on past experience, it isn't holding out hope that this process will lead to results other than a whitewash. B'Tselem announced this week that it will not assist the current military investigation mechanism, which currently amounts is nothing more than a masquerade. The organization called for the establishment of an effective, transparent and impartial mechanism. B'Tselem Executive Director, Hagai El-Ad: "The announcement demonstrates one of the current system's main shortcomings: its adamant refusal to investigate senior officials and examine honestly wide ranging policy issues pertaining to Israel's use of military force".

B’Tselem outlined three problems inherent to the system currently in place for investigating combat-related incidents:

  • The investigative apparatus is not structured to investigate top political and military officials responsible for policy and directives.
  • The MAG has a dual role: He gives legal counsel to the military before and during combat, yet is responsible for deciding on indicting those who violated the law. Where unlawful orders were issued following the MAG’s legal counsel, there is an inherent conflict of interests.
  • MPIU investigations focus solely on the soldier in the field. They are opened late, and the operational inquiry conducted before them allows soldiers to compare and alter their accounts of what happened; moreover, investigators often do not have access to the scene of the incident.
This week, B'Tselem and Yesh Din announced their joint conclusion that the Israeli authorities are unwilling to investigate harm caused to Palestinians. The two leading Israeli human rights organizations in monitoring the investigations of offenses committed by security forces against Palestinians, find that after results of hundreds of investigations lead to the inevitable conclusion that the existing investigation mechanism is marred by severe structural flaws that render it incapable of conducting professional investigations. The existing apparatus is incapable of investigating policy issues or breaches of law by senior ranking military officials, and fails to promote accountability among those responsible. The figures show that the Israeli authorities are unwilling to investigate human rights violations committed by security forces against Palestinians. The failure of the Government of Israel to implement the Turkel Commission’s recommendations, more than a year and a half after their publication, only reinforces this conclusion.

B’Tselem has decided to break with its previous practice concerning military operations in Gaza and reject a request made by the Military Advocate for Operational Matters Lt. Col. Ronen Hirsch to provide the military with information regarding "irregular" incidents that occurred during Operation Protective Edge. B’Tselem has changed its approach due to the poor track record of MAG Corps investigations so far. The organization explained the background to this decision in a detailed position paper. B'Tselem added that should the government decide to establish an independent investigation apparatus to seriously and objectively examine suspected violations of international humanitarian law by Israel during Operation Protective Edge, or should the Chechanover Commission decide to introduce a procedure that would automatically establish such a mechanism following every major military offensive in the Gaza Strip, we will be the first in line to welcome such a decision. A sufficient mechanism would be professional, viewed by the public as credible, and independent – both of the military system and of the political establishment.

investigations_slider1_eng.png
 
And here we go again.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4574149,00.html

Suspects in murder of Israeli teens killed in West Bank raid

Shin Bet say firefights broke out while attempting to apprehend two suspects in the murder of Gil-Ad Shaer, Naftali Frenkel, and Eyal Yifrah; Hamas confirms their deaths, praises their 'sacrifice'.

According to the official Shin Bet announcement, security forces arrived at the suspected location in the West Bank in an effort to arrest the two men, when a firefight broke out during which both suspects were killed.


BIG.jpg

Eyal Yifrah, Gil-Ad Shaer, Naftali Frenkel (Photo: Shaul Golan)


It was also cleared for publication by the Shin Bet that Bashar Kawasmeh, Mahmed Kawasmeh, and Taar Kawasmeh, the sons of the third suspect, Arafat Kawasmeh, who's already in custody, were arrested overnight.

Hamas' spokesperson abroad, Hussam Barduan, confirmed the killing, saying "Two members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Amar Abu-Eisha and Marwan Kawasmeh, were killed after a long life of sacrifice and giving. This is the way of the resistence and we follow in its wake step after step."

IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz also commented on the killing, saying "on the eve of Rosh HaShana (the Jewish new year) Operation Brother's Keeper, which began on June 13th, has ended. We promised the Shaer, Frenkel and Yifrah families we would get the murders of their sons, and this morning we did it."


5418217097192490285no.jpg

Kawasme (29) and Abu-Eisha (32) (Photo: AP)

The Shin Bet has spent months searching for Kawasme (29) and Abu-Eisha (32), terrorists from the Hebron area, after they were named as the killers of the three teens, who were grabbed and shot dead near a settlement on June 12.






 
New West Bank settlement plan raises alert
Municipal approval of plan to build 2,600 new homes in Givat Hamatos could make it impossible to ever divide Jerusalem.





Jerusalem - A windswept hill in occupied East Jerusalem, home to a few dozen people in dilapidated trailers, has become one of the more unlikely points of conflict in this city, the site of a controversial plan that could make it impossible to ever divide the city.

Last week a municipal committee approved a plan to build 2,600 new homes in Givat Hamatos.

It is one of the largest expansions of an illegal East Jerusalem settlement in years, and it drew a sharp rebuke from the US, because it came just ahead of a high-level US-Israeli meeting at the White House.

Activists often compare this project to E-1, a planned settlement between Jerusalem and Maale Adumim in the occupied West Bank that would cut the direct route between Ramallah and Bethlehem.

The plan here would have a similarly drastic impact on the already balkanised geography of the West Bank.

"It's a huge problem for any future agreement that divides the city," said Hagit Ofran, the director of the settlement project at Peace Now. "It blocks the way for any capital the Palestinians might hope to have in East Jerusalem."

Nir Barkat, the mayor of Jerusalem, said the project would allow "thousands" of new residents to move to the city.

Supporters downplay the political implications, arguing that East Jerusalem already has large Jewish settlements.

"I don't think this is the problem," said Oni Avital, a real-estate broker involved with the project. "We already have thousands of people living here, in Gilo and other neighbourhoods. This is not the issue for peace."

But there is a problem, which lies in a valley beneath Givat Hamatos, where some 6,000 Palestinians live in the neighbourhoods of Beit Safafa and Sharfat.

To their west and south are several other Jewish settlements; to the north, the Green Line, which delineates Israel's pre-1967 borders.

A large settlement in Givat Hamatos would close off the eastern approach, so those two communities could not realistically become part of a future Palestinian state, except as an exclave.

"The village will become a ghetto," said Samir Zohar, a resident of Beit Safafa. "Every road will become a border. We'll have to sit at checkpoints to go to work."

'Airplane Hill'

Givat Hamatos means Airplane Hill, named in honour of an Israeli pilot who crashed here during the 1967 war.

It was settled in the 1990s to house about 600 families, part of a large wave of Russian and Ethiopian Jewish immigrants.

The Israeli government was struggling to house them all, and an empty hill seemed a convenient location to drop hundreds of prefabricated homes.

"Since one part of the area was an archaeological site and the other had a minefield from a previous war, it was not ruled out for a caravan site. None could complain that it would cause a drop in their property value," wrote Ira Sharansky, a professor at Hebrew University, in a book on politics and municipal planning in Jerusalem.

In its heyday, Givat Hamatos was a proper neighbourhood, with schools and municipal services.

All of the immigrants have since decamped for more permanent housing, though, and today only a handful of poor Israeli families live here.

They pay modest fees and utility bills to live in the ageing caravans.

A forlorn playground and a rusting synagogue are all that remain of the infrastructure. One woman spent a half-hour waiting for one of the scattered buses that still service the community.

"Maybe the residents here aren't the people you should be asking [about the plan]," said Hadar Hasid, a resident of one of the trailers. "Nobody consulted us. We can’t afford to continue living here if they build proper homes."

The construction has been in the works for years: the planning committee signed off in 2012, but did not grant final approval until last week.

It joins a growing list of major settlement expansions coinciding with high-profile US-Israeli meetings.

The planning committee approved 1,600 new homes in Ramat Shlomo in 2010, just as Vice President Joe Biden arrived in Israel.

The following year it approved 1,000 units in Gilo while former Israeli President Shimon Peres was visiting Washington.

'State land'

Daniel Seidemann, an Israeli lawyer and expert on Jerusalem, said the move "could not have taken place" without Netanyahu's permission.

The US condemned the move, with State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki warning it would "distance Israel from even its closest allies".

All of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal under international law.

Her criticism drew rare direct criticism from Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli prime minister. He told the US to "get the facts right" in several television interviews on Thursday.

"This isn't a settlement. These are neighbourhoods in Jerusalem," he said.

It's not clear when construction will actually begin. Major developers are already eyeing the site, including Rami Levy, a Jerusalem business magnate who owns a major supermarket chain and telecommunications firm, who is trying to buy up some of the land.

Avital, the broker, insisted that the planned community would not house only Jews. He produced documents from the municipality showing that Palestinians own some of the land: they will be allocated permits to build hundreds of homes, he said, an expansion of Beit Safafa.

Most of the land is owned by the state, though, according to both the municipality documents and Peace Now; if history is any guide, it will be marketed to Jewish families.

The decision had been rumoured in Jerusalem for weeks; activists said the government wanted to approve the construction after the Gaza war, as a sop to the right wing.

If the international backlash is strong enough, it could still conceivably use the "state land" designation to put a halt to construction.

"Most of this is state land, so the government could decide not to build there," Ofran said. "But they've cleared the last legal hurdle."
 
The British House of Commons has just voted (274 to 12) in favour of recognising a Palestinian State, although most MPs abstained and the Government has made it clear that it will not be changing its policy as a result of the vote. Still, it is a significant message - it is the first time a major Western country has democratically expressed its immediate will to recognise Palestinian statehood.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29596822
 
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I doubt this gesture is constructive in any way. Israel has already expressed its willingness to recognize a Palestinian state already, but certain conditions need to be met. As long as the Palestinians enjoy political gains by simply playing a waiting game they have no incentive to move forward in a dialogue which would ultimately require mutual concessions. These latest exercises in Sweden and the UK are more about internal politics than anything else.
 
Great but how do you merge WB and GAZA ? When will the zionists stop colonizing ?

Two state solution isn't the answer even if it was worked out, they'd still continue fighting as nations.
 
The Commons vote is a bit meaningless given that Tories and Lib Dems didn't participate, although it's a Lib Dem policy to recognise Palestine as a state.
 
I doubt this gesture is constructive in any way. Israel has already expressed its willingness to recognize a Palestinian state already, but certain conditions need to be met. As long as the Palestinians enjoy political gains by simply playing a waiting game they have no incentive to move forward in a dialogue which would ultimately require mutual concessions. These latest exercises in Sweden and the UK are more about internal politics than anything else.
How do you eat an elephant?
 
If you don't sort this out soon you'll have a middle-east superpower on your doorstep and a US more concerned with domestic issues. At your peril.
 
If you don't sort this out soon you'll have a middle-east superpower on your doorstep and a US more concerned with domestic issues. At your peril.

That is exactly whats going to happen. The US has always been beholden to Israel but thats not infinite theres going to be a breaking point in terms of expenditure and cost of lives with the middle east. So eventually the United States will not be capable of handing the situation. It behooves Israel to wise up and be more constructive.