Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

Despite the rhetoric, I don't think we will see a mass exodus of Jews in the UK who may see a bit of abuse from idiots like "hipsters" or another minority like Muslims.

Certain people do need to stop equating Israel to your every day Jew. We also need to stop equating talk like Boycotts of Israel or criticising the Israeli government as "anti-semitism".
 
No. Antisemitism is not a result of images on TV. My opinion is that irresponsibe one-sided reports in the media create an atmosphere where an already exisitng antisemitic sentiments resurface.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Despite the rhetoric, I don't think we will see a mass exodus of Jews in the UK who may see a bit of abuse from idiots like "hipsters" or another minority like Muslims.

Certain people do need to stop equating Israel to your every day Jew. We also need to stop equating talk like Boycotts of Israel or criticising the Israeli government as "anti-semitism".
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My suggestion is that before you stop doing that you should spend a couple of seconds wondering why Israel, among all other nations, is singled out for boycott. How many call for the boycott of Chinese, Syrian, Iranian or American goods for that matter?
 
holyland red said:
The poll reflected sentiments among British Jews and not Israelis. With the exception of Amir I reckon few Israelis would contemplate moving to the UK. Automatic association of British Jews with Israel and its policies should be a concern, don't you think?
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Yep, but no more than associating Muslims with terrorism. We are all ignorant and susceptible to stereotyping to some degree, but having experienced living in a Jewish community (Stamford Hill) I can honestly these ignorant views about Jewish people are commonly not founded on experience, more in pre conceived ideas. Which unfortunately means many will automatically associate Jews with Israel. And for many Israel is associated with war, and killing Palestinians, Zionism etc. Anti semitism will not gain any ground in the UK, as the majority know that it is ignorant, and also what a valuable contribution the Jewish community has made to the UK.
 
Allow me to disagree on two accounts. Firstly, Muslims have carried out terrorist attacks on British soil which would naturally result in resentment towards the general British Muslim population, whether ignorant or not. Then, there is a conflict in the ME between Israel (predominantly Jewish) and a mostly Muslim Arab rival. There is no reason why this should lead to hostile atmosphere in the UK towards one side more than the other. In light of recent analogies in this thread I'd add that during the NI conflict few Israelis picked sides.
 
holyland red said:
My suggestion is that before you stop doing that you should spend a couple of seconds wondering why Israel, among all other nations, is singled out for boycott. How many call for the boycott of Chinese, Syrian, Iranian or American goods for that matter?
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Don't we already have sanctions on Syria and Iran to some extent? Or is that considered anti-Islamic as well? Wonder what sanctions on South Africa were referred to as, anti-white?
 
holyland red said:
Allow me to disagree on two accounts. Firstly, Muslims have carried out terrorist attacks on British soil which would naturally result in resentment towards the general British Muslim population, whether ignorant or not. Then, there is a conflict in the ME between Israel (predominantly Jewish) and a mostly Muslim Arab rival. There is no reason why this should lead to hostile atmosphere in the UK towards one side more than the other. In light of recent analogies in this thread I'd add that during the NI conflict few Israelis picked sides.
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Firstly, the terrorist attacks on British soil were the result of individuals and their own choices.The resulting resentment and fear towards Islam and muslims was created by the media. This in turn gave oxygen to the ignorant. The resentment towards the Jews is similar, the Israeli government bombs Gaza, Media demonises Israel(righty or wrongly) which fuels the agenda of bigots,and conveniently for them the Uk has its Jewish community to target.
Its wrong for both communities to be targeted and demonised for the actions of others.
 
Mozza said:
Mine isn't and nor is yours as an Israeli. Try being a Palestinian in Gaza and you'll be closer to it
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It was pretty close to that during the Oslo debacle, which is why the day dreamers are no longer in office. The Palestinians should now follow the example with Hamas. When is the next Gaza general elections?
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Don't we already have sanctions on Syria and Iran to some extent? Or is that considered anti-Islamic as well? Wonder what sanctions on South Africa were referred to as, anti-white?
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I believe there are sanction in place for oil imports from Iran (and Syria). However, you will not find popular campaigns for boycotting products and shops selling them. I believe a third country was omitted from your reply and replaced with another.
 
CircusMonkey said:
Firstly, the terrorist attacks on British soil were the result of individuals and their own choices.The resulting resentment and fear towards Islam and muslims was created by the media. This in turn gave oxygen to the ignorant. The resentment towards the Jews is similar, the Israeli government bombs Gaza, Media demonises Israel(righty or wrongly) which fuels the agenda of bigots,and conveniently for them the Uk has its Jewish community to target.
Its wrong for both communities to be targeted and demonised for the actions of others.
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I think both of us have made ourselves clear enough here.
 
holyland red said:
I believe there are sanction in place for oil imports from Iran (and Syria). However, you will not find popular campaigns for boycotting products and shops selling them. I believe a third country was omitted from your reply and replaced with another.
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You mean 3rd and a 4th as well, I ignored the Chinese and American ones as even hipsters would realise calling for sanctions would be unrealistic. Although certain French protesters along with their government did inspire the infamous "freedom fries" phrase.

I'd also imagine if Assad or ISIS were selling cardigans that would be boycotted too.
 
KingCantona87 said:
From my understanding of the history I think the Arabs convinced themselves that they were due to be given what they believed to be "their land" once WW1 was over. Is there anywhere on record that proves this promise? Not belittling your view, just curious for my own knowledge. At the same time the Balfour Declaration promised the Jews the same thing.

The British never kept the Zionist miltiias (by this I assume you're referring to the Haganah, Irgun and Lehi?) armed at all. The militias sought their weapons from benefactors, some of which were British Jews and stealing weapons from the British. The British there were pretty cruel towards all parties, Jews and Arabs alike and did nothing to attempt to quell the rising tide of racial tensions and attrocities, committed by both sides.

As I'm sure you well know the Mufti of Jerusalem certainly whipped up "the locals" into a Jew killing frenzy. My stance on the British handling of the mandate was that they were absolutely diabolical. In a loose way they sew the seeds for what is going on today.



I get that, but there was a deep lying anti-semitic undercurrent there, perpetuated by the Grand Muftee and other Arab leaders at the time. They never even wanted the Jews to live there in the first place, hence the countless attacks on Jewish settlements in the early parts of the 20th century.



For someone as knowledgeable on the subject as you are, I'm utterly gob smacked that you don't know who Yasser Arafat was? Fearless was making a tongue in cheek reference to Arafat and the Black September movement. His magical leadership is probably why Gaza and the Palestinian Movement in general is in the state that it is in now due to his shenanigans down the years.

Also if you're going to read me the riot act and cast judgement on me, make sure you use unbiased sources and up-to-date data, otherwise you just look a prat.

The problem IS of their making as their desire to murder and destroy Israel and every last Jew standing is stronger than their desire to better themselves and work towards a long lasting and harmonious existence. Their leadership does not give a flying feck about it's people and where is the world's outrage? Oh yeah I forgot, Israel isn't allowed to defend itself is it? Naughty naughty Israel...
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That wasn't what happened. The British promised the Arabs support for independence in 'their lands' in exchange for an uprising against the Ottomans in WW1.

http://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/cp/1915.htm

This is one of the first things I found when searching, I'm sure there are many more. That is the bone of contention for many people with the British at the time, their parallel promises to the Arabs and Jews about the same patch of land. The only thing that the Arabs convinced themselves of was of the reliability of Britain's promises.

You misunderstood my point. I didn't say the British armed the Zionist militias. They did indeed receive their weapons from external sources. I am saying that the British disarmed the Arab militias in the region at the time, while not doing the same for the Zionist militias. I'm not even sure it was because they didn't want to, more that by the 30s and 40s, they realised exactly what they had done and came to the realisation that they didn't have the energy or resources post WW2 to continue trying to administer this quagmire of their own creation.

Indeed there was and I find the grand Mufti a despicable man. Your assumption though is that anti-Jewish feeling amongst those people was something inherent, almost in their DNA, as opposed to mass migration of a people into the land in which they were living with the stated purpose of setting up a separate country there. In this, they are not particularly different from most populations in history who have faced mass migration. This was not the right response and they've suffered for it since. It is indisputable that they should have approached the situation in a different way.

I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or being wilfully ignorant with that comment? I don't remember you getting involved with the conversation when Fearless posted that video a year or so ago about the 'leader of the Palestinians in Jordan' but unsurprisingly, the man in the video was not Yasser Arafat, who incidentally......yes I have heard of! He wasn't Arafat, nor was the man in the video making any point about Black September as far as I remember. The man in the video was the well known Palestinian heavyweight, Mudar Zahran. Have you heard of him? Do you think many Palestinians have? The comment this time was posting a quote from an actual Palestinian leader, with a made up quote, trying to justify your comments that not only the Palestinians but the world at whole, are virulently anti-semitic. It turned out very quickly they had pulled the quote of their ass. Funny that.

Which biased sources and old data have I used? The only thing I've cast judgement on has been your insistence that a) everybody is an anti-semite and that b) Gazans actually lead quite decent lives cos they're apparently fat and that they are probably much more nourished years into a blockade. Excellent.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Are you saying that the 200.000+ Arabs at the end of 19th/b. of 20th century occupied every single inch, every rock, hill, valley, desert, literally everything on the entire territory?
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No I'm not, what a ridiculous point to make, as peterstorey has already pointed out.

Are the 65 million Brits occupying every single inch, rock, hill, valley, literally everything on the entire territory? Are the Americans? Serbians? The Israelis? Gazans? Singaporeans? Is there a single patch of land/ country where every single inch, rock, hill, valley, literally everything on the entire territory is occupied?

Any of those countries I just mentioned ready to accept thousands of new migrants with the stated intent of carving out their own country there?

We've built on barely any of the UK's land, we still have so much land to give. After all, if we're ot occupying every inch....

How much of Serbia is occupied? Got any spare inches?
 
holyland red said:
It was pretty close to that during the Oslo debacle, which is why the day dreamers are no longer in office. The Palestinians should now follow the example with Hamas. When is the next Gaza general elections?
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The Palestinians did wake up to reality, following Fatah has seen them get more of their land stolen, a 2 state solution is further away then ever.

You'll probably see an election once Israel ends its seige
 
KingCantona87 said:
The problem IS of their making as their desire to murder and destroy Israel and every last Jew standing is stronger than their desire to better themselves and work towards a long lasting and harmonious existence. Their leadership does not give a flying feck about it's people and where is the world's outrage? Oh yeah I forgot, Israel isn't allowed to defend itself is it? Naughty naughty Israel...
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Sorry, didn't see this part of the post first time round.

Let me set the stall out early. I hate Hamas. I despise their ideology. I despise their method of governance. I despise their rockets. I despise their leaders.

However, an excellent tactic by successive Israeli governments and their supporters has been to dehumanise the Palestinians in multiple ways. The best way to do this is using kids. Kids are universal across humanity. We may have different methods for doing so but in the end, we are all (supposed to be) doing what we do for our kids. We work to make sure our kids have better lives than us. We make decisions for our kids' futures. We do anything to protect them, to ensure a future for them.

The Palestinians are an exception. They don't love their kids, they hate their kids. They hate Israelis more than they love their kids. In essence, they are sub human, the only thing you can be if your actions aren't for your kids.

We have a monolothic view of Hamas here in the West. The irony is that the reason a lot of people voted for Hamas in 2006 was because of domestic policies (as opposed to what HR assures me happens in Israel, which is that people vote based on what the parties will do with the conflict). They voted for them because of their frustration at the corruption and compliance of the PA, as well as Hamas' network of schools, hospitals and sports centres, all of which tended to be superior to the ones run by the PA.

But no, Hamas just wants to kill all the Jews and is willing to sacrifice every last Palestinian to do so. I've gotten a bit lost here, its been a month or so since I posted on the cafe, was it you before who was calling for slightly more nuance in the discussion of this conflict?
 
Probably. I thought the national unity government agreement included general election within 6 months. What about Egyptian siege? Do they wait to decide on their future before that one is lifted too?
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Despite the rhetoric, I don't think we will see a mass exodus of Jews in the UK who may see a bit of abuse from idiots like "hipsters" or another minority like Muslims.

Certain people do need to stop equating Israel to your every day Jew. We also need to stop equating talk like Boycotts of Israel or criticising the Israeli government as "anti-semitism".
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I don't accept that Muslims are a minority, so I don't get your point either.
 
Colin129 said:
I don't accept that Muslims are a minority, so I don't get your point either.
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Muslims make up 5% of the UK population, I'd count that as a minority. Others might count 5% as a majority but each to their own.

My point was we won't see a mass exodus of Jews in the UK unless you disagree and we will? The reason behind this is because Muslims that make up the majority in the UK will go punished if they show aggression.
 
holyland red said:
Probably. I thought the national unity government agreement included general election within 6 months. What about Egyptian siege? Do they wait to decide on their future before that one is lifted too?
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Egypts government is funded by the US, the US follows Israels lead
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Muslims make up 5% of the UK population, I'd count that as a minority. Others might count 5% as a majority but each to their own.

My point was we won't see a mass exodus of Jews in the UK unless you disagree and we will? The reason behind this is because Muslims that make up the majority in the UK will go punished if they show aggression.
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I'm on my phone, so it's a bit of a faff, but the 2011 survey says that there were 10 times as many Muslims as Jewish people, it is also the 2nd most populous religion in the UK after Christianity, which is to be expected. On a global scale, Islam could never be described as a minority religion.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom

However, I do accept your general point. Nevertheless, antisemitism has certainly been on the rise throughout Europe over the past few years.
 
Antisemitism is on the rise coinciding with the growth of Islam in the west. Not surprising at all. Consider the difference of opinion in this discussion:



The problem for the reasonable and more "secular" Muslims present is that they're at odds with their religion, so while they're completely right in what they say here, Islam will never cease to be a conveyor belt for the chap in the white, for example, and he's not really that extreme as Islam goes.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
The problem for the reasonable and more "secular" Muslims present is that they're at odds with their religion, so while they're completely right in what they say here, Islam will never cease to be a conveyor belt for the chap in the white, for example, and he's not really that extreme as Islam goes.
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That's incredibly amusing, seeing as how you would be considered far from a "reasonable and more secular Christian" by most Christians, let alone people who aren't Christians (the equivalent of you talking about Muslims. Your talk about the how the Glory of God is all that matters is every bit as insidious as most Islamic rhetoric.
 
niMic said:
That's incredibly amusing, seeing as how you would be considered far from a "reasonable and more secular Christian" by most Christians, let alone people who aren't Christians (the equivalent of you talking about Muslims. Your talk about the how the Glory of God is all that matters is every bit as insidious as most Muslim rhetoric.
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No it isn't. Are you really too ignorant to know why or are you just engaging in a form of provocation purely for the sake of it?
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
The question is a genuine one. Are you too ignorant to know why a sincere devotion to Christ is incompatible with persecution, political dominion, etc?
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While a sincere devotion to Allah isn't? They either both are, or neither of them is. I studied history, so trust me when I say I know what a "sincere devotion to Christ" can lead to. Unless this is one of those No True Scotsman arguments that religious people of all shapes and sizes have been employing throughout history, usually on each other.
 
niMic said:
While a sincere devotion to Allah isn't? They either both are, or neither of them is. I studied history, so trust me when I say I know what a "sincere devotion to Christ" can lead to. Unless this is one of those No True Scotsman arguments that religious people of all shapes and sizes have been employing throughout history, usually on each other.
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You have no interest in what I believe and what I can tell you about my faith since you want to profile me alongside oppressors and murderers. That's the truly insidious thing here. You won't find anybody who condemns more than I do the actions of Catholics and Protestants alike who have persecuted people in the name of Christ.

The difference between those actions and those of radical Muslims is that no part of what those Christians did can ever be justified on the teachings of Christ or the example he set in life for all his followers. Do you not agree that it's stupid to claim to be a Christian, which demands that you put all things under Christ and live a life set apart unto him, being conformed to his image, to then willfully act in a manner which is totally contrary to Christ?

Can you say the same about Jihadis and Islam's perfect example for man (which Muhammad is considered to be within Islam)?
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
The question is a genuine one. Are you too ignorant to know why a sincere devotion to Christ is incompatible with persecution, political dominion, etc?
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What has been the contribution of Islam to anti-semitism in Europe, historically perhaps the most anti-semitic region in the world, over the past 1000 years?

How much of that anti-semitism was due to a sincere devotion to Christ?

You should ask many Arab Christians/ Atheists what they think of Israel, you might find their views not all that different from other Arabs.

Can you also not see how your 'sincere devotion' to Christ is different from the many hundreds of millions of interpretations of peoples' sincere devotion to Christ around the world? And how for many of these other people, their very sincere devotion comes along with quite a bit of persecution, as happens with pretty much every religion?

Also, I'm not Muslim but as far as I'm aware, there's no such thing as the 'perfect example' of a man in Islam. They emphasise again and again that he is nothing but a messenger. I think you're lifting a Christian idea and superimposing it on a different religion there.
 
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africanspur said:
What has been the contribution of Islam to anti-semitism in Europe, historically perhaps the most anti-semitic region in the world, over the past 1000 years?

How much of that anti-semitism was due to a sincere devotion to Christ?

You should ask many Arab Christians/ Atheists what they think of Israel, you might find their views not all that different from other Arabs.

Can you also not see how your 'sincere devotion' to Christ is different from the many hundreds of millions of interpretations of peoples' sincere devotion to Christ around the world? And how for many of these other people, their very sincere devotion comes along with quite a bit of persecution, as happens with pretty much every religion?
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Before you accuse me for quoting scripture, just read the verses below. in them you will see that God's accusation is with those responsible for the spiritual shepherding of his people. This is how God contends with those who don't know his moral law and don't walk in his ways. It doesn't matter whether or not somebody professes Christ, if they do these things they demonstrate they don't know any better. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

Atrocities have been committed by people professing Christ but they all come from lack of knowledge. God contends with them, as you see below.

Hosea 4:1-6

Hear the word of the LORD, O children of Israel, for the LORD has a controversy with the inhabitants of the land. There is no faithfulness or steadfast love, and no knowledge of God in the land; there is swearing, lying, murder, stealing, and committing adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed. Therefore the land mourns, and all who dwell in it languish, and also the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and even the fish of the sea are taken away Yet let no one contend, and let none accuse, for with you is my contention, O priest. You shall stumble by day; the prophet also shall stumble with you by night; and I will destroy your mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
 
Colin129 said:
I'm on my phone, so it's a bit of a faff, but the 2011 survey says that there were 10 times as many Muslims as Jewish people, it is also the 2nd most populous religion in the UK after Christianity, which is to be expected. On a global scale, Islam could never be described as a minority religion.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom
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Ah so you meant in relation to Jewish people? It doesn't work though. Guess you wouldn't consider blacks in the UK a minority as as there are more black people than people of oriental origin. Obviously on a global scale, Islam isn't a minority but my post clearly mentioned the UK.

Colin129 said:
However, I do accept your general point. Nevertheless, antisemitism has certainly been on the rise throughout Europe over the past few years.
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Yeah I agree it's on the rise and is a problem, but also what is on the rise is racially motivated attacks on muslims. Anti-Muslim hate is a very real issue in Europe as well even if you don't consider them a minority. You can argue over the reasoning but the issue is all the same. From a UK perspective it's no surprise that the far right like BNP and EDL don't target Jews or Blacks anymore but Muslims.
 
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Re the last point that is probably because no other community has such integration issues - not that I support the EDL etc
 
digitalnirvana said:
Re the last point that is probably because no other community has such integration issues - not that I support the EDL etc
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Yeah that is a factor, and as I mentioned reasoning isn't the issue here. However it's not the only reason IMO
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Before you accuse me for quoting scripture, just read the verses below. in them you will see that God's accusation is with those responsible for the spiritual shepherding of his people. This is how God contends with those who don't know his moral law and don't walk in his ways. It doesn't matter whether or not somebody professes Christ, if they do these things they demonstrate they don't know any better. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

Atrocities have been committed by people professing Christ but they all come from lack of knowledge. God contends with them, as you see below.

Hosea 4:1-6

Hear the word of the LORD, O children of Israel, for the LORD has a controversy with the inhabitants of the land. There is no faithfulness or steadfast love, and no knowledge of God in the land; there is swearing, lying, murder, stealing, and committing adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed. Therefore the land mourns, and all who dwell in it languish, and also the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and even the fish of the sea are taken away Yet let no one contend, and let none accuse, for with you is my contention, O priest. You shall stumble by day; the prophet also shall stumble with you by night; and I will destroy your mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
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I'm genuinely not sure if you're being serious at the moment if I'm completely honest.
 
africanspur said:
I'm genuinely not sure if you're being serious at the moment if I'm completely honest.
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Let me help you. Not all religions are the same. If a religion is to be judged, it should be judged by what it teaches. The reason Islam is a conveyor belt for what we identify as radical Muslims is because they're not far off the Prophet Muhammad's example. He is regarded by Muslims as "the best of mankind", hence my previous comment. Many strict Muslims often grow their beard to the same length Muhammad is said to have grown his to.

If you honestly compare Jesus Christ with Muhammad, though Jesus no doubt said many things you probably don't like, their two examples are totally contrasting, and that's why sincere devotion to Christ should, and most often does, look totally different. This really shouldn't even be a debate. It's very silly and naive to equate religions because every religion has "bad apples".

And again, to your charge of antisemitism. I've said before that it's incredibly stupid for people who follow Jesus Christ (a Jew) to be antisemitic and to attempt any kind of justification from books penned by Jewish authors (since the new testament was written by first century Jews) would only compound the irony. That people have done this just speaks to their stupidity, but again, there is a difference between what's written in those Jewish books and a religion which, in prophetic vision of the end of days, says this:

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Let me help you. Not all religions are the same. If a religion is to be judged, it should be judged by what it teaches. The reason Islam is a conveyor belt for what we identify as radical Muslims is because they're not far off the Prophet Muhammad's example. He is regarded by Muslims as "the best of mankind", hence my previous comment. Many strict Muslims often grow their beard to the same length Muhammad is said to have grown his to.

If you honestly compare Jesus Christ with Muhammad, though Jesus no doubt said many things you probably don't like, their two examples are totally contrasting, and that's why sincere devotion to Christ should, and most often does, look totally different. This really shouldn't even be a debate. It's very silly and naive to equate religions because every religion has "bad apples".

And again, to your charge of antisemitism. I've said before that it's incredibly stupid for people who follow Jesus Christ (a Jew) to be antisemitic and to attempt any kind of justification from books penned by Jewish authors (since the new testament was written by first century Jews) would only compound the irony. That people have done this just speaks to their stupidity, but again, there is a difference between what's written in those Jewish books and a religion which, in prophetic vision of the end of days, says this:

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
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Thanks for the continued patronising tone, much appreciated.

In return, let me help you as much as I can, perhaps in bullet point format? Just to ease the process.

  • Nobody said all religions are the same. In my view, they are all equally bs but they are of course not all the same in what they preach, their scriptures etc.
  • I have already told you that Muslims don't have this concept of 'the best of mankind', certainly not to anywhere near the same extent as Christians do with Jesus (partly I guess because they do not see him as God). You are superimposing part of your belief onto another.
  • You quoted scripture at me. From the Bible. In an Israel-Palestine thread. Scripture which as far as I can understand seems to be suggesting that God or some disciple of God will destroy my mother and forget my children for those listed sins (out of interest, are we following the prescribed punishments for these crimes?). That should be an end to the conversation/ thread right there.
  • I'm not going to get into a slanging match over scriptures because it is a) silly and b) as I said, I consider them as crap as each other. Suffice to say, I'm sure somebody with as in depth knowledge of you of the bible will know the relevant passages.
  • You have that view. Millions of Christians, over a 1000+ year period of history thought otherwise, as they came up with pogrom after pogrom, expulsion after expulsion, ghetto after ghetto, discrimination after discrimination and finally genocide. You've decided to dismiss all of this as peple just being a little bit ignorant/ stupid really. Such a shame you weren't around to enlighten them, might have saved European Jews a little bit of hassle.
  • You've essentially grouped a whole religion into one and then defended your own faith by using the no true scotsman argument.
 
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