It's no longer a ceasefire if you keep firing rockets at each others, neanderthals.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Senior Israeli officials have told Israel Channel 10 on condition of anonymity that the sticking issue in the talks in the Egyptian capital Cairo is Hamas' demand to open its port in Gaza.
Israel has rejected this demand, according to the sources, but is reportedly trying to explore a solution that would allow residents of Gaza to get whatever cargo it need without a port.
The other sticking point is rebuilding the airport , which Israel also rejected.
Israel has rejected this demand, according to the sources, but is reportedly trying to explore a solution that would allow residents of Gaza to get whatever cargo it need without a port.
The other sticking point is rebuilding the airport , which Israel also rejected.
No it didn't. It was very clear that it started the fire. No need to portray a more balanced picture than it really is.
It is clear Palestinians are in a very weak place, militarily. A humiliating peace treaty now could possibly be a clear victory for the future.
Take the opportunity to mix, trade, appreciate each others good qualities. Stop poisonous indoctrination, and PR wars. In some years the mindset of both peoples will change. If Muslims truly believe in God there is nothing more powerful than respecting, being good neighbours and actually praying for God to change hearts, even your so called enemies.
Remember Allah SW says in the Qur'an "Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change themselves"
Take the opportunity to mix, trade, appreciate each others good qualities. Stop poisonous indoctrination, and PR wars. In some years the mindset of both peoples will change. If Muslims truly believe in God there is nothing more powerful than respecting, being good neighbours and actually praying for God to change hearts, even your so called enemies.
Remember Allah SW says in the Qur'an "Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change themselves"
Sultan for UN General Secretary.
Can't do a lot worse than the clown currently in office, so we'll take the chance.
I'm still intrigued by the "personal evolution" concept.
The misinterpretation of ancient useless religions which bring a stubborn unwillingness to compromise from both sides make it impossible for these people to evolve...and as long as both sides are brain-washed with endless religious nonsense and endless hatred then the people will remain in ignorance and will both very much remain with the Caveman neanderthal mindset for a very long time to come.
Ringo, I know as a Christian I should be probably more patient etc etc, but please could you just shut the hell up with all this religion stuff. There's a religion thread elsewhere on the Caf. Just cut the crap.
You're on the right track but your execution is off.
If you were born a couple of decades earlier you could have shared the dias with gandhi or bacha khan.
You should read up on sri lanka and burma then.
'India's Kashmir experience can be a model for Israel in Gaza'
GAZA: Amid the deadly Israeli-Hamas conflict, a Kashmiri woman who is married to a Palestinian here feels Israel can learn from India's experience in Kashmir while dealing with the volatile situation in Gaza.
"It used to be quite terrible in Kashmir but things started to take a positive turn when the Indian government started to invest in education and found ways to send youngsters to learn outside the state," says Lubna, a bio-chemist who works for the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) in Gaza in its Department of National Defence.
"Their energies got channelised into constructive things. It helped ease the situation and also get control over the spiralling violence. Things would have been very different if India would have resorted to violent means to take control of the disturbed territory," she said.
Lubna says that Israel could learn quite a lot from the Indian handling of the situation in Kashmir and make good use of it in Gaza.
"There is almost no work but the PNA has retained all its staff even after its ouster from Gaza," she said.
"I went to Aligarh Muslim University and my brother went to Manipal (University). We learnt and moved on in life. There are so many other youngsters my age who benefited from the Indian government's thinking and came out of the cycle of violence," Lubna noted.
"Israel tried to suffocate us by imposing closure with the support of the West. Left with no choice the militant factions started building tunnels which kept life going here in Gaza. Even the shoes I wear came through tunnels," she said.
"If youngsters were allowed to go out and learn. If they could find other opportunities, they would probably not have chosen what they have. Who doesn't want to live a good life at peace. People in Gaza were choked to make the choices that they have made," Lubna asserted.
"It's my first visit to Gaza. My daughter has been living here for 17 years after marrying a Palestinian who studied with her in India. I had not seen my three grandchildren for the last six years. I was obviously thrilled at the prospect of spending our first Eid together in Gaza", said Lubna's 67-year-old mother Fatima, who is visiting her here.
Fatima is planning to go back to India on September 11 but still doesn't know if and how she would be able to do so.
"We hear that Egypt would be opening the Rafah crossing as part of the ceasefire deal. When my mother came the Representative Office of India in Ramallah was extremely helpful in coordinating her entry. I hope she has a safe exit," Lubna said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...l-for-Israel-in-Gaza/articleshow/39829915.cms
GAZA: Amid the deadly Israeli-Hamas conflict, a Kashmiri woman who is married to a Palestinian here feels Israel can learn from India's experience in Kashmir while dealing with the volatile situation in Gaza.
"It used to be quite terrible in Kashmir but things started to take a positive turn when the Indian government started to invest in education and found ways to send youngsters to learn outside the state," says Lubna, a bio-chemist who works for the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) in Gaza in its Department of National Defence.
"Their energies got channelised into constructive things. It helped ease the situation and also get control over the spiralling violence. Things would have been very different if India would have resorted to violent means to take control of the disturbed territory," she said.
Lubna says that Israel could learn quite a lot from the Indian handling of the situation in Kashmir and make good use of it in Gaza.
"There is almost no work but the PNA has retained all its staff even after its ouster from Gaza," she said.
"I went to Aligarh Muslim University and my brother went to Manipal (University). We learnt and moved on in life. There are so many other youngsters my age who benefited from the Indian government's thinking and came out of the cycle of violence," Lubna noted.
"Israel tried to suffocate us by imposing closure with the support of the West. Left with no choice the militant factions started building tunnels which kept life going here in Gaza. Even the shoes I wear came through tunnels," she said.
"If youngsters were allowed to go out and learn. If they could find other opportunities, they would probably not have chosen what they have. Who doesn't want to live a good life at peace. People in Gaza were choked to make the choices that they have made," Lubna asserted.
"It's my first visit to Gaza. My daughter has been living here for 17 years after marrying a Palestinian who studied with her in India. I had not seen my three grandchildren for the last six years. I was obviously thrilled at the prospect of spending our first Eid together in Gaza", said Lubna's 67-year-old mother Fatima, who is visiting her here.
Fatima is planning to go back to India on September 11 but still doesn't know if and how she would be able to do so.
"We hear that Egypt would be opening the Rafah crossing as part of the ceasefire deal. When my mother came the Representative Office of India in Ramallah was extremely helpful in coordinating her entry. I hope she has a safe exit," Lubna said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...l-for-Israel-in-Gaza/articleshow/39829915.cms
Being a little hypocritical with that article @VidaRed aren't you? Weren't you the same person who was saying how the Sri Lankan government were right to take on the tigers and wipe them out as they were a menace? Can't then the same argument be made about Hamas? Shouldn't Israel wipe them out first before giving the Palestinians a peaceful settlement?
It's also quite telling vida that when Sri Lanka was committing its war crimes (on a far worse scale than what's happening here) you simply made a thread questioning whether it was the end of the tigers, yet here we are, when muslims are involved, your contribution is just slightly different. Now I'm not saying you're wrong for your response here, just that there should be no pretence that it's because the victims are muslims.
It's also quite telling vida that when Sri Lanka was committing its war crimes (on a far worse scale than what's happening here) you simply made a thread questioning whether it was the end of the tigers, yet here we are, when muslims are involved, your contribution is just slightly different. Now I'm not saying you're wrong for your response here, just that there should be no pretence that it's because the victims are muslims.
Caution needed with Gaza casualty figures
War zones are not easy places to collect statistics.
In the Gaza conflict, most news organisations have been quoting from the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), which leads a group of humanitarian organisations known as the Protection Cluster.
Its recent report said that as of 6 August, 1,843 Palestinians had been killed and 66 Israelis and one Thai national since Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8 July.
Of those Palestinians, the status of 279 could not be identified, at least 1,354 were civilians, including 415 children and 214 women, the UN body reported.
So there were 216 members of armed groups killed, and another 725 men who were civilians. Among civilians, more than three times as many men were killed as women, while three times as many civilian men were killed as fighters.
The UN report carries a caveat with its figures: "Data on fatalities and destruction of property is consolidated by the Protection and Shelter clusters based on preliminary information, and is subject to change based on further verifications."
There has been some research suggesting that men in general are more likely to die in conflict than women, although no typical ratio is given.
Nonetheless, if the Israeli attacks have been "indiscriminate", as the UN Human Rights Council says, it is hard to work out why they have killed so many more civilian men than women.
Matthias Behnk, from OHCHR, told BBC News that the organisation would not want to speculate about why there had been so many adult male casualties, adding that because they were having to deal with a lot of casualties in a short time, they had "focused primarily on recording the casualties".
"As such, we have not at this stage conducted a detailed analysis of trends of civilian casualties, for example in relation to the reasons why different groups are affected and the types of incidents, but hope to carry this out at some point in the coming future," he said.
"However, even in the compiling of these preliminary figures, we cross-verify between different sources, not only media and several different human rights organisations, but also use other sources, including, for example, names of alleged fighters released by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and notices by armed groups in Gaza claiming someone as a member."
A number of other news organisations have been considering the civilian-to-fighter ratio.
An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."
"At the same time, women and children under 15, the least likely to be legitimate targets, were the most underrepresented, making up 71% of the population and 33% of the known-age casualties."
The list of names and ages of the dead published by al-Jazeera also found men aged between 20 and 29 to be significantly overrepresented.
The IDF say they have killed at least 253 Hamas operatives, 147 Islamic Jihad operatives, 65 "operatives of various organisations" and 603 "operatives whose affiliation is unknown", although they also stress that this is not a final number.
Spokesman Capt Eytan Buchman told BBC News that "the UN numbers being reported are, by and by large, based on the Gaza health ministry, a Hamas-run organisation".
He said that part of the reason for the discrepancy between the figures was "when militants are brought to hospitals, they are brought in civilian clothing, obscuring terrorist affiliations".
"Hamas also has given local residents directives to obscure militant identities," he said.
"It's important to bear in mind that in Operation Cast Lead [the last Israeli ground offensive in December 2008-January 2009], Hamas and Gaza-based organisations claimed that only 50 combatants were killed, admitting years later the number was between 600-700, a figure nearly identical to the figure claimed by the IDF."
In conclusion, we do not yet know for sure how many of the dead in Gaza are civilians and how many were fighters. This is in no sense the fault of the UN employees collecting the figures - their statistics are accompanied by caveats and described as preliminary and subject to to revision.
But it does mean that some of the conclusions being drawn from them may be premature.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179
War zones are not easy places to collect statistics.
In the Gaza conflict, most news organisations have been quoting from the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), which leads a group of humanitarian organisations known as the Protection Cluster.
Its recent report said that as of 6 August, 1,843 Palestinians had been killed and 66 Israelis and one Thai national since Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8 July.
Of those Palestinians, the status of 279 could not be identified, at least 1,354 were civilians, including 415 children and 214 women, the UN body reported.
So there were 216 members of armed groups killed, and another 725 men who were civilians. Among civilians, more than three times as many men were killed as women, while three times as many civilian men were killed as fighters.
The UN report carries a caveat with its figures: "Data on fatalities and destruction of property is consolidated by the Protection and Shelter clusters based on preliminary information, and is subject to change based on further verifications."
There has been some research suggesting that men in general are more likely to die in conflict than women, although no typical ratio is given.
Nonetheless, if the Israeli attacks have been "indiscriminate", as the UN Human Rights Council says, it is hard to work out why they have killed so many more civilian men than women.
Matthias Behnk, from OHCHR, told BBC News that the organisation would not want to speculate about why there had been so many adult male casualties, adding that because they were having to deal with a lot of casualties in a short time, they had "focused primarily on recording the casualties".
"As such, we have not at this stage conducted a detailed analysis of trends of civilian casualties, for example in relation to the reasons why different groups are affected and the types of incidents, but hope to carry this out at some point in the coming future," he said.
"However, even in the compiling of these preliminary figures, we cross-verify between different sources, not only media and several different human rights organisations, but also use other sources, including, for example, names of alleged fighters released by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and notices by armed groups in Gaza claiming someone as a member."
A number of other news organisations have been considering the civilian-to-fighter ratio.
An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."
"At the same time, women and children under 15, the least likely to be legitimate targets, were the most underrepresented, making up 71% of the population and 33% of the known-age casualties."
The list of names and ages of the dead published by al-Jazeera also found men aged between 20 and 29 to be significantly overrepresented.
The IDF say they have killed at least 253 Hamas operatives, 147 Islamic Jihad operatives, 65 "operatives of various organisations" and 603 "operatives whose affiliation is unknown", although they also stress that this is not a final number.
Spokesman Capt Eytan Buchman told BBC News that "the UN numbers being reported are, by and by large, based on the Gaza health ministry, a Hamas-run organisation".
He said that part of the reason for the discrepancy between the figures was "when militants are brought to hospitals, they are brought in civilian clothing, obscuring terrorist affiliations".
"Hamas also has given local residents directives to obscure militant identities," he said.
"It's important to bear in mind that in Operation Cast Lead [the last Israeli ground offensive in December 2008-January 2009], Hamas and Gaza-based organisations claimed that only 50 combatants were killed, admitting years later the number was between 600-700, a figure nearly identical to the figure claimed by the IDF."
In conclusion, we do not yet know for sure how many of the dead in Gaza are civilians and how many were fighters. This is in no sense the fault of the UN employees collecting the figures - their statistics are accompanied by caveats and described as preliminary and subject to to revision.
But it does mean that some of the conclusions being drawn from them may be premature.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179
Not at all, the tamil problem is different than the israeli one. In that case foreigners didn't land up from another continent and started laying claims. ltte was correctly wiped out but im against civilian deaths. i am not the defender of hamas, they are the ones who supported the terrorists in syria and ive clearly said there that islamic terrorists need to be wiped out. If you want to show my bias then atleast do it correctly because im biased like everyone else but not on religious lines but rather on national lines. It all depends on whether you agree with the main object or not, its my opinion that palestinians deserve a nation but there was no legitimacy for tigers in lanka or fsa in syria, isis in iraq or kashmir in India. I also am of the view that kurds deserve a nation. You can have your own viewpoint but im not being a hypocrite if i oppose one organization thats fighting for creating a state and supporting another, you have to look at the back story and make up your own mind whether there fight is justifiable or not.
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Mounting evidence of deliberate attacks on Gaza health workers by Israeli army
An immediate investigation is needed into mounting evidence that the Israel Defense Forces launched apparently deliberate attacks against hospitals and health professionals in Gaza, which have left six medics dead, said Amnesty International as itreleased disturbing testimonies from doctors, nurses, and ambulance personnel working in the area.
“The harrowing descriptions by ambulance drivers and other medics of the utterly impossible situation in which they have to work, with bombs and bullets killing or injuring their colleagues as they try to save lives, paint a grim reality of life in Gaza,” said Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International.
“Even more alarming is the mounting evidence that the Israeli army has targeted health facilities or professionals. Such attacks are absolutely prohibited by international law and would amount to war crimes. They only add to the already compelling argument that the situation should be referred to the International Criminal Court.”
Hospitals, doctors and ambulance staff, including those trying to evacuate people injured in Israeli attacks, have come under increased fire since 17 July.
Some medical teams have even been prevented from reaching critical areas altogether, leaving hundreds of injured civilians without access to life-saving help and entire families without assistance in removing the bodies of their loved ones.
Jaber Khalil Abu Rumileh, who supervises ambulance services in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs hospital, told Amnesty International of a shelling attack on the medical facility on 21 July that lasted for half an hour.
“It was 3pm and I was working in the emergency unit. I heard bombing that shook the hospital. It was a shelling that had hit the fourth floor, the pregnancy and caesarean unit. Then there were a few more hits. People were terrified, patients ran out, doctors could not enter to help the injured and remove the dead. Then the third floor was hit and four people were killed. I saw one women come running with the child she just gave birth to. Some women gave birth during the shelling.”
Mohammad Abu Jumiza is partially deaf after suffering head injuries during an attack that took place while he was transferring injured people in his ambulance in Khan Younis on 24 July.
“We were on our way back to Nasser hospital, driving with the lights and sirens on as always. The ambulance was clearly marked as such. The doctor, nurse and I were all wearing medical uniforms. When we reached the Islamic University I heard an explosion right next to us and the front and back windows of the car fell out. As I was turning another missile hit next to us, and then a third one. When the fourth missile hit, I lost control and we crashed, so we ran out of the car and found shelter in a building. Then there were two more missiles fired and some people were injured.”
Dr Bashar Murad, director of Palestinian Red Crescent Society’s (PRCS) emergency and ambulance unit, said that since the conflict started at least two PRCS ambulance workers had been killed, at least 35 had been injured and 17 health vehicles had been left out of service after attacks by the Israeli army.
“Our ambulances are often targeted although they are clearly marked and display all signs that they are ambulances. The army should be able to distinguish from the air that what they targeting are ambulances,” he said.
Ambulance worker Mohammad Al-Abadlah was killed on 25 July. He was in Qarara to help an injured person when he was shot in the hip and chest with gunfire and bled to death. Mohammad was travelling in a visibly marked ambulance and was wearing his medical uniform. Colleagues who approached him to help him were also shot at but were not injured.
A’ed Mustafa Bur’i, another ambulance worker, was burned to death on 25 July in Beit Hanoon after a shell hit the clearly marked vehicle he was travelling in.
Hospitals across the Gaza Strip are also suffering from fuel and power shortages, inadequate water supply, and shortages of essential drugs and medical equipment. Such shortages, already prevalent due to Israel’s seven-year blockade, have been made much worse during the current hostilities.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/moun...s-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army-2014-08-07
An immediate investigation is needed into mounting evidence that the Israel Defense Forces launched apparently deliberate attacks against hospitals and health professionals in Gaza, which have left six medics dead, said Amnesty International as itreleased disturbing testimonies from doctors, nurses, and ambulance personnel working in the area.
“The harrowing descriptions by ambulance drivers and other medics of the utterly impossible situation in which they have to work, with bombs and bullets killing or injuring their colleagues as they try to save lives, paint a grim reality of life in Gaza,” said Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International.
“Even more alarming is the mounting evidence that the Israeli army has targeted health facilities or professionals. Such attacks are absolutely prohibited by international law and would amount to war crimes. They only add to the already compelling argument that the situation should be referred to the International Criminal Court.”
Hospitals, doctors and ambulance staff, including those trying to evacuate people injured in Israeli attacks, have come under increased fire since 17 July.
Some medical teams have even been prevented from reaching critical areas altogether, leaving hundreds of injured civilians without access to life-saving help and entire families without assistance in removing the bodies of their loved ones.
Jaber Khalil Abu Rumileh, who supervises ambulance services in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs hospital, told Amnesty International of a shelling attack on the medical facility on 21 July that lasted for half an hour.
“It was 3pm and I was working in the emergency unit. I heard bombing that shook the hospital. It was a shelling that had hit the fourth floor, the pregnancy and caesarean unit. Then there were a few more hits. People were terrified, patients ran out, doctors could not enter to help the injured and remove the dead. Then the third floor was hit and four people were killed. I saw one women come running with the child she just gave birth to. Some women gave birth during the shelling.”
Mohammad Abu Jumiza is partially deaf after suffering head injuries during an attack that took place while he was transferring injured people in his ambulance in Khan Younis on 24 July.
“We were on our way back to Nasser hospital, driving with the lights and sirens on as always. The ambulance was clearly marked as such. The doctor, nurse and I were all wearing medical uniforms. When we reached the Islamic University I heard an explosion right next to us and the front and back windows of the car fell out. As I was turning another missile hit next to us, and then a third one. When the fourth missile hit, I lost control and we crashed, so we ran out of the car and found shelter in a building. Then there were two more missiles fired and some people were injured.”
Dr Bashar Murad, director of Palestinian Red Crescent Society’s (PRCS) emergency and ambulance unit, said that since the conflict started at least two PRCS ambulance workers had been killed, at least 35 had been injured and 17 health vehicles had been left out of service after attacks by the Israeli army.
“Our ambulances are often targeted although they are clearly marked and display all signs that they are ambulances. The army should be able to distinguish from the air that what they targeting are ambulances,” he said.
Ambulance worker Mohammad Al-Abadlah was killed on 25 July. He was in Qarara to help an injured person when he was shot in the hip and chest with gunfire and bled to death. Mohammad was travelling in a visibly marked ambulance and was wearing his medical uniform. Colleagues who approached him to help him were also shot at but were not injured.
A’ed Mustafa Bur’i, another ambulance worker, was burned to death on 25 July in Beit Hanoon after a shell hit the clearly marked vehicle he was travelling in.
Hospitals across the Gaza Strip are also suffering from fuel and power shortages, inadequate water supply, and shortages of essential drugs and medical equipment. Such shortages, already prevalent due to Israel’s seven-year blockade, have been made much worse during the current hostilities.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/moun...s-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army-2014-08-07
Searching for your family in the rubble is such a threat to the IDF. Punishable by death.
http://www.channel4.com/news/gaza-israel-killing-salem-shamaly-shujaiya-inside-story
Today, a former Israeli soldier has told Channel 4 News he can shed light on what happened.
Eran Efrati left the army in 2008. He is now an activist who has sought to expose Israeli military transgressions.
He told Channel 4 News he has taken testimony from soldiers who were there when Shamaly was shot.
Mr Efratri said: "These soldiers are deciding on a theoretical red line that nobody can pass. You can be killed for crossing this line. There is a video of a man looking for his family. Two soldiers ask if it is ok to shoot him."
He described what happened next: "The sniper is getting into position - he is asking his offcer, three, times 'when can I shoot him?'
"The officer tells them 'wait, wait, we need the man in the green shirt to cross the red line'.
'Revenge attack'
"The third time the officers tell him, 'you can shoot'.
"He shoots two more bullets into his body and kills him."
Mr Efrati confirmed: "I heard this testimony from three soldiers."
He added: "They were completely convinced that what they did was wrong. They were guilty. The man in the green shirt was not any threat to their lives.
"The officer allowed this revenge attack in the middle of Gaza."
http://www.channel4.com/news/gaza-israel-killing-salem-shamaly-shujaiya-inside-story
Today, a former Israeli soldier has told Channel 4 News he can shed light on what happened.
Eran Efrati left the army in 2008. He is now an activist who has sought to expose Israeli military transgressions.
He told Channel 4 News he has taken testimony from soldiers who were there when Shamaly was shot.
Mr Efratri said: "These soldiers are deciding on a theoretical red line that nobody can pass. You can be killed for crossing this line. There is a video of a man looking for his family. Two soldiers ask if it is ok to shoot him."
He described what happened next: "The sniper is getting into position - he is asking his offcer, three, times 'when can I shoot him?'
"The officer tells them 'wait, wait, we need the man in the green shirt to cross the red line'.
'Revenge attack'
"The third time the officers tell him, 'you can shoot'.
"He shoots two more bullets into his body and kills him."
Mr Efrati confirmed: "I heard this testimony from three soldiers."
He added: "They were completely convinced that what they did was wrong. They were guilty. The man in the green shirt was not any threat to their lives.
"The officer allowed this revenge attack in the middle of Gaza."
"The man in the green shirt", a 2014 ISM production.
But the difference between roughly half the dead being combatants, in the Israeli version, or barely 10 percent, to use the most stark numbers on the other side, is wide enough to change the characterization of the conflict.
It seems unlikely that there will ever be a definitive breakdown both sides accept: Israel contends that some of the casualties were caused by errant Hamas rockets or mortars. Human rights groups acknowledge that people killed by Hamas as collaborators and people who died naturally, or perhaps through domestic violence, are most likely counted as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/w...ing-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1
It seems unlikely that there will ever be a definitive breakdown both sides accept: Israel contends that some of the casualties were caused by errant Hamas rockets or mortars. Human rights groups acknowledge that people killed by Hamas as collaborators and people who died naturally, or perhaps through domestic violence, are most likely counted as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/w...ing-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1
Despite the overwhelming evidence from eye witnesses from journalists all over the World placed in Gaza, it seems that holyland red is still in denial. His arguments seem to that either 1) the civilian casualties amongst the palestinian population are justified, or 2) they weren't civilians at all but Hamas terrorists.
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu appealed to American legislators to help Israel stave off what is likely to be a concerted global push to haul the country’s military and political leaders to international courts for alleged war crimes committed in Gaza, The New York Post reported on Thursday.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Prot...s-charges-Netanyahu-urges-US-lawmakers-370352
Dont worry Biny. America wont hold you accountable.
Meanwhile the age old policy of kicking out Palestinians is still popular with many in high places.
Knesset member: Retake Gaza, put civilians in ‘tent camps’
Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, said that “Oslo is finished” and there are “no two states for two people; there is only one state for one nation.”
Urging a change of strategy, he wrote that Israel must redefine the enemy — “radical Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety”– the mission and the strategic goal of the operation and “reconquer Gaza” while killing all the fighting forces and “their supporters.”
With a vision of “turning Gaza into Jaffa,” Feiglin said the Palestinian enclave can become a “flourishing Israeli city with a minimum of hostile residents.”
He went on to say that tent encampments should be set up near the border with Egypt’s Sinai region — “far from the built-up areas of rocket launchers and tunnels until relevant emigration destinations are determined.” Areas that were previously inhabited should be cut off from power and water and a massive bombing campaign should destroy all the Hamas installations, he said.
Feiglin envisioned that Israel should then start finding countries to take the refugees; those who go willingly will receive a “generous economic aid package,” upon arriving at their destinations, he said.
“Those who insist on staying and can prove no links to Hamas must publicly sign an oath of fealty to Israel,” Feiglin continued, adding that they would will then receive Israeli identification cards.
Israeli law would then be applied to the entire of the Gaza Strip and those settlers who were evacuated from the Palestinian enclave nine years ago would be invited to return to their communities, he said.
“The city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as Israeli touristic and commercial sites,” he wrote.
Read more: Knesset member: Retake Gaza, put civilians in 'tent camps' | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-member-retake-gaza-put-civilians-in-tent-camps/#ixzz39t9qW3gX
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Prot...s-charges-Netanyahu-urges-US-lawmakers-370352
Dont worry Biny. America wont hold you accountable.
Meanwhile the age old policy of kicking out Palestinians is still popular with many in high places.
Knesset member: Retake Gaza, put civilians in ‘tent camps’
Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, said that “Oslo is finished” and there are “no two states for two people; there is only one state for one nation.”
Urging a change of strategy, he wrote that Israel must redefine the enemy — “radical Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety”– the mission and the strategic goal of the operation and “reconquer Gaza” while killing all the fighting forces and “their supporters.”
With a vision of “turning Gaza into Jaffa,” Feiglin said the Palestinian enclave can become a “flourishing Israeli city with a minimum of hostile residents.”
He went on to say that tent encampments should be set up near the border with Egypt’s Sinai region — “far from the built-up areas of rocket launchers and tunnels until relevant emigration destinations are determined.” Areas that were previously inhabited should be cut off from power and water and a massive bombing campaign should destroy all the Hamas installations, he said.
Feiglin envisioned that Israel should then start finding countries to take the refugees; those who go willingly will receive a “generous economic aid package,” upon arriving at their destinations, he said.
“Those who insist on staying and can prove no links to Hamas must publicly sign an oath of fealty to Israel,” Feiglin continued, adding that they would will then receive Israeli identification cards.
Israeli law would then be applied to the entire of the Gaza Strip and those settlers who were evacuated from the Palestinian enclave nine years ago would be invited to return to their communities, he said.
“The city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as Israeli touristic and commercial sites,” he wrote.
Read more: Knesset member: Retake Gaza, put civilians in 'tent camps' | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-member-retake-gaza-put-civilians-in-tent-camps/#ixzz39t9qW3gX
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3) You are a Jew hater
I concur.
I'm afraid that this argument is no longer valid. This time it's the BBC and NYT that question the figures coming out of Gaza. If you had an ounce of either common sense or honesty you'd have reached the same conclusions.
What about the eyewitness accounts HR? What about eyewitness accounts of hospitals full of dead or injured women & children? Hospitals, UN schools & shelters being bombed? Eyewitness reports from all over Gaza by journalists from all kinds of nationalities, backgrounds, etc?
These reports are not in disagreement with the BBC/NYT version
the only way out....not hate.
still does not excuse what a powerful country like Israel has done though.
A lot of people are questioning the conduct of the Israelis around the world, including Jews. Does that equate to hating the Jews?
I suppose we can say anyone who sides with Israel hates Muslims....ffs
It will be interesting to see how Hamas fares at the end of this given that Egypt and Israel seem more interested in working with Fatah.
For example the BBC's journalists in Gaza, who's government supports Israel btw, have reported the civilian casualties day after day with eyewitness reports including film footage.
Read the post to which I replied to. I am not the one using that excuse. That is something which has been used by the Pro-Israelis in this thread frequently.
Apologies! My misunderstanding.
I have the impression that posters like Hellboy and Mozza hate Jews. I might be totally wrong though and Hellboy is a super nice guy who also has Jewish friends.
I think they are both passionate about this issue.
BBC and NYT are typically very critical of Israel. There is no doubt that there are hundreds of civilian casualties. I never suggested otherwise. However, it was quite clear from the word go that Hamas was inflating the figures of civilian casualties. I'm glad BBC and NYT take my posts seriously. I'll ask Mr. Regev for a pay raise.