Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

He is one of the few commentators who highlights why Hamas are around.


http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm

"another episode in the program of “illiteracy as punishment"...including the closing of schools" (Chomsky)

Check below for a list of Palestinian uinversities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_universities_and_colleges

As you, and Chomsky before you, could easily figure out there were NONE present prior to 1967. NONE. All Palestinian universities opened under the “illiteracy as punishment" Zionist program.

I suggest you seek professional help with that Chomsky hard on of yours. He may be a clever individual, but that does not mean you don't have to question his biased opinions. Go ahead and try it.
 
I love how HR is playing the victim. Proper Israeli you. All that while defending and identifying himself with a bunch of murderers and land thieves.
 
I love how HR is playing the victim. Proper Israeli you. All that while defending and identifying himself with a bunch of murderers and land thieves.

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My mother always told us: 'Remember that you are Arab girls – different.' She made sure to impart to us who and what we are – tradition and holidays – and to speak to us in Arabic at home. As a girl, I didn't understand what an Arab was or what a Jew was – those are abstract concepts for a child. When my uncle came to visit, I asked my mother, 'Mom, is Uncle Mohammed also an Arab?' ”
—Lucy Aharish, Haaretz[1]
 
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My mother always told us: 'Remember that you are Arab girls – different.' She made sure to impart to us who and what we are – tradition and holidays – and to speak to us in Arabic at home. As a girl, I didn't understand what an Arab was or what a Jew was – those are abstract concepts for a child. When my uncle came to visit, I asked my mother, 'Mom, is Uncle Mohammed also an Arab?' ”
—Lucy Aharish, Haaretz[1]

How convenient for Israeli jews to have people (cretins) like her. Yes we conquer your land, we exile 700,000 people, we massacre thousands, we treat you as third class citizens, we are openly racist against you and chanting for your death in the streets, we have discriminating laws against you, we oppress your people in Gaza and West Bank, murdering entire families and 450 children in a month, we continue the colonization, we continue the settlement building, and WE EXPECT YOU to see that all people are equal, the oppressor and the oppressed, and if you don't do that you are a hateful racist who is ungrateful to be living in the only "democracy" in the region. Keep dreaming you murderers sympathizer, you are starting to annoy me now with your lies and propaganda.
 
You can't pigeon-hole Israel as a country of land-grabbing, child murderers. It's stereotypes like that which make any kind of meaningful solution less and less likely. There's a lot more to the country than the land-grabbing, right-wing nutjobs. It is a democracy and it is, in parts, very tolerant and forward thinking, which allows someone like the person above to express opinions which might be very different to a lot of Arabs in the region. This is a good thing, believe it or not. Speaking of freedom of speech, there's also a lot of Israeli's who oppose what's happening as vehemently as anyone on here. Again, a good thing.

EDIT: Of course, the way they are being treated is most definitely not a good thing. Shameful, actually.
 
Isn't that the man who pleaded clemency for his Israeli partner who was convicted of raping a Palestinian boy? Shameful that he is still provided with a platform to air his hateful drivel.

You can use his controversial side as a reason to dismiss him but it doesn't detract from the fact that most people agree with what he has to say.
 
A very good analysis.

AUGUST 5, 2014 4:00 AM

A Stronger Israel?
Elite opinion believes Israel will lose “long-term” whatever happens in the next weeks. Not necessarily.

By Victor Davis Hanson

In postmodern wars, we are told, there is no victory, no defeat, no aggressors, no defenders, just a tragedy of conflicting agendas. But in such a mindless and amoral landscape, Israel in fact is on its way to emerging in a far better position after the Gaza war than before.

Analysts of the current fighting in Gaza have assured us that even if Israel weakens Hamas, such a short-term victory will hardly lead to long-term strategic success — but they don’t define “long-term.” In this line of thinking, supposedly in a few weeks Israel will only find itself more isolated than ever. It will grow even more unpopular in Europe and will perhaps, for the first time, lose its patron, America — while gaining an enraged host of Arab and Islamic enemies. Meanwhile, Hamas will gain stature, rebuild, and slowly wear Israel down.

But if we compare the Gaza war with Israel’s past wars, that pessimistic scenario hardly rings true. Unlike in the existential wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, Israel faces no coalition of powerful conventional enemies. Syria’s military is wrecked. Iraq is devouring itself. Egypt is bankrupt and in no mood for war. Its military government is more worried about Hamas than about Israel. Jordan has no wish to attack Israel. The Gulf States are likewise more afraid of the axis of Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood than of Israel — a change of mentality that has no historical precedent. In short, never since the birth of the Jewish state have the traditional enemies surrounding Israel been in such military and political disarray. Never have powerful Arab states quietly hoped that Israel would destroy an Islamist terrorist organization that they fear more than they fear the Jewish state.

But is not asymmetrical warfare the true threat to Israel? The West, after all, has had little success in achieving long-term victories over terrorist groups and insurgents — remember Afghanistan and Iraq. How can tiny Israel find security against enemies who seem to gain political clout and legitimacy as they incur ever greater losses, especially when there is only a set number of casualties that an affluent, Western Israel can afford, before public support for the war collapses? How can the Israelis fight a war that the world media portray as genocide against the innocents?

In fact, most of these suppositions are simplistic. The U.S., for example, defeated assorted Islamic insurgents in what was largely an optional war in Iraq; a small token peacekeeping force might have kept Nouri al-Maliki from hounding Sunni politicians, and otherwise kept the peace. Israel’s recent counterinsurgency wars have rendered both the Palestinians on the West Bank and pro-Iranian Hezbollah militants in Lebanon less, not more, dangerous. Hamas, not Israel, would not wish to repeat the last three weeks.

Oddly, Hezbollah, an erstwhile ally of Hamas, has been largely quiet during the Gaza war. Why, when the use of its vast missile arsenal, in conjunction with Hamas’s rocketry, might in theory have overwhelmed Israel’s missile defenses? The answer is probably the huge amount of damage suffered by Hezbollah in the 2006 war in Lebanon, and its inability to protect its remaining assets from yet another overwhelming Israeli air response. Had Hamas’s rockets hit their targets, perhaps Hezbollah would have joined in. But for now, 2014 looks to them a lot like 2006.

In the current asymmetrical war, Israel has found a method of inflicting as much damage on Hamas as it finds politically and strategically useful without suffering intolerable losses. And because the war is seen as existential — aiming rockets at a civilian population will do that — Israeli public opinion will largely support the effort to retaliate.
 
As long as Israel does not seek to reoccupy Gaza, it can inflict enough damage on the Hamas leadership, and on both the tunnels and the missile stockpiles, to win four or five years of quiet. In the Middle East, that sort of calm qualifies as victory. And the more the world sees of the elaborate tunnels and vast missile arsenals that an impoverished Hamas had built with other people’s money, and the more these military assets proved entirely futile in actual war, the more Hamas appears not just foolish but incompetent, if not ridiculous, as well.

After all the acrimony dies down, Gazans will understand that there was a correlation between blown-up houses, on the one hand, and, on the other, tunnel entrances, weapon depots, and the habitat of the Hamas leadership. Even the Hamas totalitarians will not be able to keep that fact hidden. As the rubble is cleared away, too many Gazans will ask of their Hamas leaders whether the supposedly brilliant strategy of asymmetrical warfare was worth it. Hamas’s intended war — blanketing Israel with thousands of rockets that would send video clips around the world of hundreds of thousands of Jews trembling in fear in shelters — failed in its first hours. The air campaign was about as successful as the tunnel war, which was supposed to allow hit teams to enter Israel to kidnap and kill, with gruesome videos posted all over the Internet. Both strategies largely failed almost upon implementation.

In terms of domestic politics, Israel has rarely been more united — akin to the United States right after 9/11. The Israeli Left and Right agree that no modern Western state can exist under periodic clouds of rockets and missiles. Similarly, the attrition of Hamas only plays into the hands of the Palestinian Authority, which understandably stayed out of the war and did not incite the West Bank to stage simultaneous attacks. Like it or not, after the Gaza war, Israel will be dealing in the near future with Palestinians who do not always think preemptive rocket and tunnel attacks work to their own strategic advantage.

In terms of economics, Israel is no longer subject to carbon-fuel blackmail. It will soon become a major exporter of natural gas, and political realities will reflect that commercial importance. If one cynically believes that much of the global tilt to the Palestinians began as an aftershock from the 1973 oil embargoes, then Israeli exports may soon be reflected in more favorable politics.

Is Israel politically isolated? It certainly seems that way, if one looks at the response to the Gaza war among Western journalists, academics, politicians, and popular culture. But public opinion in the United States remains staunchly pro-Israel in spite of the American elite culture’s romance with Hamas and the Palestinians. Moreover, the Democratic party is facing its own increasing existential crisis, as its establishment pro-Israel donors and politicians are appalled by the increasingly anti-Israel tones of its ever more radical base. After the Gaza war, some major Democratic supporters of Israel will quietly make the necessary adjustments, in recognition that both their party and the Obama administration seem to prefer Hamas to democratic Israel. The upcoming 2014 midterm election does not favor candidates who are anti-Israel, but rather pro-Israeli conservatives. After 2016 there is unlikely to be a president who shares the incoherent views of Barack Obama on the Middle East. Fairly or not, it appears that the administration is trying to hide its pro-Hamas sympathies and is doing so unprofessionally and ineptly.

Europe, of course, remains mostly hostile to Israel, a hatred that predates the Gaza war. But the current demonstrations of virulent anti-Semitic hatred do not reflect well on the European Union. At present, it appears that European nations either cannot or will not confront their own fascistic Islamic radicals, which leaves open the question of whether the Islamist message of the streets resonates with Europeans.The European hostility to Israel does not stem just from events on the ground in Gaza, but is more a reflection of Europe’s inability to deal with its 20th-century past. Demonization, the more virulent the better, of Israelis seems to ease guilt over the Holocaust — as if to imply that, while the genocide was regrettable, there was something innately savage in Jewish culture, now manifested in Gaza, that might understandably have incited past generations of more radical Europeans. Otherwise, Europeans simply mask with trendy ideology the more materialistic assessment that demography, oil, and the fear of terrorism weigh in favor of allying with the Palestinians. Either way, European anti-Semitism is a bankrupt ideology, one that manifests itself in sympathy for an undemocratic, misogynistic, homophobic, and religiously intolerant Hamas, along with selective unconcern with the many occupations, refugees, divided cities, and walled borders that exist in the wide world outside the Middle East.

The U.N. will emerge after the war in an even sorrier state. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has offered mostly platitudes and buffooneries. Certainly, he would never take his own advice if North Korea were to move in the manner of Hamas. Hamas’s use of U.N. facilities to hide arsenals could not have occurred without U.N. complicity. What little credibility the U.N. had in the Middle East before the war is mostly shredded.

Iran is watching the war, and its surrogate is not doing well. There is no particular reason why an Israeli anti-missile system could not knock down an Iranian missile. Nor is Hezbollah as fiery in deed as in word these days. The message to Iran is that Israel will fight back in whatever way it finds appropriate against its enemy of the moment.

Gaza is a military and political minefield. But if Israel continues on its present course, it will emerge far better off than Hamas and better off than it was before Hamas began its missile barrage. And in the Middle East, that is about as close to victory as one gets. The future for Israel is not bleak, just as it is not bleak for any nation that chooses to defend itself from savage enemies that seek its destruction.

NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals.
 
You can't pigeon-hole Israel as a country of land-grabbing, child murderers. It's stereotypes like that which make any kind of meaningful solution less and less likely. There's a lot more to the country than the land-grabbing, right-wing nutjobs. It is a democracy and it is, in parts, very tolerant and forward thinking, which allows someone like the person above to express opinions which might be very different to a lot of Arabs in the region. This is a good thing, believe it or not. Speaking of freedom of speech, there's also a lot of Israeli's who oppose what's happening as vehemently as anyone on here. Again, a good thing.

EDIT: Of course, the way they are being treated is most definitely not a good thing. Shameful, actually.

Israel is a country of right wing nutters (The Israeli left-wing would be considered right-wing in any other country). Now tell me, is the land grab ongoing or not? Are the massacres ongoing or not? The discrimination? Any Israeli who wants to side with the Arab cause is welcome, that only makes him a humanitarian. But that doesn't change the truth about Israel and who runs it.

This country has been built on other people's land in the most brutal way. I do not respect any opinion of any Arab that does not acknowledge this fact. I'm all for forgiveness and living in peace, but self-respect and dignity are part of the equation. These are ill-informed people. If the reasons are getting more freedom as a female, or living a lifestyle that is more acceptable in Israel than in neighboring countries, I understand that, but I don't necessarily respect it. If it's an advantageous agenda, like Naddaf, I don't respect it just on the basis of how ill-informed it is. You want Arabs to wake up one day and just blend in a discriminating society?

A democracy that discriminates is not a true democracy.

The solution you are talking about is one were the oppressed is the one who will make all the concessions, erase all the memories, forget about relatives in exile. This doesn't sit right with me, there's no historical justice in it, not one bit.
 
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Israel is a country of right wing nutters (The Israeli left-wing would be considered right-wing in any other country). Now tell me, is the land grab ongoing or not? Are the massacres ongoing or not? The discrimination? Any Israeli who wants to side with the Arab cause is welcome, that only makes him a humanitarian. But that doesn't change the truth about Israel and who runs it.

This country has been built on other people's land in the most brutal way. I do not respect any opinion of any Arab that does not acknowledge this fact. I'm all for forgiveness and living in peace, but self-respect and dignity are part of the equation. These are ill-informed people. If the reasons are getting more freedom as a female, or living a lifestyle that is more acceptable in Israel than in neighboring countries, I understand that, but I don't necessarily respect it. If it's an advantageous agenda, like Naddaf, I don't respect it just on the basis of how ill-informed it is. You want Arabs to wake up one day and just blend in a discriminating society?

A democracy that discriminates is not a true democracy.

The solution you are talking about is one were the oppressed is the one who will make all the concessions, erase all the memories, forget about relatives in exile. This doesn't sit right with me, there's no historical justice in it, not one bit.

It's OK to hate, and disrespect other opinions. A true democracy should accomodate your type too. All you are requested of is to respect the law.
 
Pogue, this Lucy that HR has brought up, is someone who said that there's no way she would marry an Arab because Arabs are wife beaters and just very backwards in general. Growing up with in the Jewish community really shaped up her perception of Arabs, so don't read too much into how she represents any portion of the Arab society. Poetically, though, after trying to become as close to the Jewish community as she possibly could. She was told that this country is not hers and she is not supposed to live here on national tv by a Jewish right wing activist. She's a selfish little bitch and got what she deserved. But being on channel i24 which is called "the iron dome against the world media" tells you how she forgotten her roots for something she selfishly prefers. Again it's her right. I don't respect it and she is by no means any representation to any significant portion of Arabs you'll find here.
 
It's OK to hate, and disrespect other opinions. A true democracy should accomodate your type too. All you are requested of is to respect the law.
I respect the law, of course. You Zionists brought hate to two peoples living in harmony for years.

I know your type HR don't worry. ;)
 
To Pogue: Imagine you're an Arab, and you know all this, can you be pro-Israeli and sane at the same time?



Please take your time and watch that, it adds a lot to the argument.
 
Pogue, this Lucy that HR has brought up, is someone who said that there's no way she would marry an Arab because Arabs are wife beaters and just very backwards in general. Growing up with in the Jewish community really shaped up her perception of Arabs, so don't read too much into how she represents any portion of the Arab society. Poetically, though, after trying to become as close to the Jewish community as she possibly could. She was told that this country is not hers and she is not supposed to live here on national tv by a Jewish right wing activist. She's a selfish little bitch and got what she deserved. But being on channel i24 which is called "the iron dome against the world media" tells you how she forgotten her roots for something she selfishly prefers. Again it's her right. I don't respect it and she is by no means any representation to any significant portion of Arabs you'll find here.

When Lucy Aharish turned up to audition for the role of newsreader on Israeli commercial television, she saw 10 other women awaiting their turn for the screen test. "They were all blonde and blue-eyed, very Tel Aviv, like the typecast of the channel," says the 28-year-old Aharish. "I thought there was no way that I'd be accepted but that I'd just give it a try." She was accepted - and became the first Arab-Israeli newsreader on mainstream Israeli television.

Didn't know you lot were wife-beaters too. Why would she say anything like that?
 
When Lucy Aharish turned up to audition for the role of newsreader on Israeli commercial television, she saw 10 other women awaiting their turn for the screen test. "They were all blonde and blue-eyed, very Tel Aviv, like the typecast of the channel," says the 28-year-old Aharish. "I thought there was no way that I'd be accepted but that I'd just give it a try." She was accepted - and became the first Arab-Israeli newsreader on mainstream Israeli television.

Didn't know you lot were wife-beaters too. Why would she say anything like that?

:lol: You blind fool. Of course all Arabs are wife beaters, myself included.

She is of much more use to you than any other run of the mill blonde newsreaders. A true sign of democracy!

Your only redeeming quality is your stamina. Kudos.
 
What's would be the correct figures hr? An Isreali source if possible as chances are they'll actually be the truth. The rest are only biased anti-Isreali liars.

I don't know the "correct" figure, because I am sure there are still uncounted deaths. Army sources here estimate anything from 700-1000 dead combatants. Hamas does not reveal the identites of dead combatants, because they know they are joined by death merchants in their PR campaign.

Can't tell you exact figures, but fortunately enough the stories behind those deaths start filtering through:



Heroshima
 
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:lol: You blind fool. Of course all Arabs are wife beaters, myself included.

She is of much more use to you than any other run of the mill blonde newsreaders. A true sign of democracy!

Your only redeeming quality is your stamina. Kudos.

Well, that must be the reason hehind the hiring of Dr. Haick by the Technion depite having dozens of other Zionist candidates for the position. He must be a fool too, not understanding the plot here. Salim Jourbran is also a fool, isn't he? Serving in Israel's Supreme Court and thus helping its PR war on the peaceful Arab World.
 
Well, that must be the reason hehind the hiring of Dr. Haick by the Technion depite having dozens of other Zionist candidates for the position. He must be a fool too, not understanding the plot here. Salim Jourbran is also a fool, isn't he? Serving in Israel's Supreme Court and thus helping its PR war on the peaceful Arab World.
Why would we interfere in the personal careers of those who are helping humanity?
 
Well, that must be the reason hehind the hiring of Dr. Haick by the Technion depite having dozens of other Zionist candidates for the position. He must be a fool too, not understanding the plot here. Salim Jourbran is also a fool, isn't he? Serving in Israel's Supreme Court and thus helping its PR war on the peaceful Arab World.

Tokenism. Pure and simple.

Tokenism is the policy or practice of making a perfunctory gesture toward the inclusion of members of minority groups. This token effort is usually intended to create an appearance of inclusiveness and deflect accusations of discrimination.

Its pretty clear that Arabs are second class citizens in Israel. (Along with black Jews who apparently are a cancer http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/)
 
Anyway I wasted too much time, unlike you I'm not getting paid to do this!
:D
 
She's a selfish little bitch and got what she deserved.

Just about sums up your contribution. Perhaps leave the girl alone? Your attempts to discredit any Arab who doesn't think the exact same things as you about Israel comes across as incredibly bitter. How can you possibly hope to have a reasoned dialogue with people you've already demonised in your own mind?

It used to be frowned upon to talk to/of women in terms like this and it still is where I come from.
 
Just about sums up your contribution. Perhaps leave the girl alone? Your attempts to discredit any Arab who doesn't think the exact same things as you about Israel comes across as incredibly bitter. How can you possibly hope to have a reasoned dialogue with people you've already demonised in your own mind?

It used to be frowned upon to talk to/of women in terms like this and it still is where I come from.

A guy can be a bitch too, she didn't get called that because she's a woman. Although it seems a bit too strong, so I take that back.

Herman, you are nitpicking because you don't agree with me. You want to contribute? Consider my other points.
 
Tokenism. Pure and simple.

Tokenism is the policy or practice of making a perfunctory gesture toward the inclusion of members of minority groups. This token effort is usually intended to create an appearance of inclusiveness and deflect accusations of discrimination.

Its pretty clear that Arabs are second class citizens in Israel. (Along with black Jews who apparently are a cancer http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/)

Well, he must be an utter fool to turn down an offer from UC Berkley and fall to this cheap trap. If only he was as bright as thegregster from the internet.
 
A guy can be a bitch too, she didn't get called that because she's a woman. Although it seems a bit too strong, so I take that back.

Herman, you are nitpicking because you don't agree with me. You want to contribute? Consider my other points.

Yeah, I don't agree with calling men that either but it's particularly bad form to say it of a woman but I see you've taken it back. That's good.

I don't agree with your sweeping generalisations about Israel, and I also don't agree with sweeping generalisations about Arabs. Because I am not in the business of demonising entire peoples, I have no desire to get into a shouting match with you.
 
Yeah, I don't agree with calling men that either but it's particularly bad form to say it of a woman but I see you've taken it back. That's good.

I don't agree with your sweeping generalisations about Israel, and I also don't agree with sweeping generalisations about Arabs. Because I am not in the business of demonising entire peoples, I have no desire to get into a shouting match with you.
Do you agree that a person who have lived this has might have stronger opinions than you would like? Where have I generalized though? please show me.