You wrong, the mistake was made long time ago before Christ time when the Romans occupied Judea, Syria and other territories mostly belonging to Israel.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
No they wouldn't. However, when Israeli scientists board a plane to Israel on their way back from scientific meetings they find, like all other passengers, that the gate isn't anounced until quite late prior to the flight, it is located at one of the tip ends of the terminal, they have to go through a security check again and often see armed military personnel around. They may choose to feel like a caged animals or terror suspects, or alternatively understand that airport security work is based on profiling to a certain degree. It's regretful that Arabs get through a more thorough security procedure at the airport, but its a minor consequence of the harsh reality of life here. This is not to say that I think airport security cannot be revised, but it wouldn't be fair to present current methods as harassment.
This is how kids blown up on a beach used to be reported by the international media.
Now the world has to show the footage of them being murdered due to social media. Isnt it great that we can finally have both side of the story?
Even loonys Israel politicians like Mr Bennett can't ban camera phones.
Meanwhile in the Israeli media:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dio-advert-listing-names-children-killed-gaza
Israhell. How witty your alternative media outlets are...I liked Cuntastine better.
Christian Arabs in Israel have better academic achievments than their Jewish compatriots. They excel in private high schools and higher education institutes. They have lower birth rates compared with Muslim Arabs, they are more educated and they invest in educating their children more than the Jews here. I absolutely admire them for that, especially in light of the difficulties they endure in a very complicated and divided society. The prejudice as reflected in the article is disgusting, but as a whole I think better integration is possible and indeed early signs are there that Christian Arabs wish to identify themselves with Israel more and more. Although numbers are still low, Christian Arabs enlist to the army or to national service in growing rates which will go a long way in bridging the still existing gaps. Is there room for improvement? Of course there is, and both sides need to do their bit to guarantee a more equal society here.
I'm quite proud of this, yes, although the integration of Christian Arabs in Israeli society is not as smooth as I would like it to be.
http://unitedwithisrael.org/son-of-father-gabriel-nadaf-suffered-brutal-beating/
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Fair enough. Thanks for responding, to both sections of my post. I get on quite well with an Israeli colleague (meet him at international company meetings) so am aware what a ball-ache getting through security can be. Didn't realise profiling was such a big factor but should have assumed it was and can't really fault the logic.
Are you for real?
Why wouldn't I be?
Just saw this posted on reddit.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/n...fires-rockets-571033?pfrom=home-lateststories
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/n...fires-rockets-571033?pfrom=home-lateststories
Nice, they are just fighting for their people, to protect them, etc.
Gabriel Naddaf is a known collaborator. His reputation among Christian Arabs in Israel makes him not worthy of discussion here. People can be bought, you're trying to buy your way into causing divisions and rifts between the Arabs here. The nerve on you to even mention these horrible cnuts.
Gabriel Naddaf is a known collaborator. His reputation among Christian Arabs in Israel makes him not worthy of discussion here. People can be bought, you're trying to buy your way into causing divisions and rifts between the Arabs here. The nerve on you to even mention these horrible cnuts.
Collaborator...
He is collaborating with his own country, you tool. He understands that integrating in his country is the way forward rather than promoting hate and incitement.
I reckon the Arab Spring helped many Israeli Arabs and Christians realize how fortunate they are being citizens of the only democracy in the region.
Was going to post that. It's amazing footage. Of course, any accusation of firing rockets from "civilian areas" begs the question, where are these "non-civilian areas" they should be firing from instead? I get the impression it's pretty crowded in there.
Ergo: they shouldn't be firing rockets at all. Probably the most counterproductive method of 'resistance' ever.
And if the IDF hit back at that spot a few minutes later what would be the chances they would have got the 2/3 lads that fired it? I'd imagine they'd be slim enough as they would have left the scene straight away and yet another batch of innocent civilians would have been wiped out instead. I could be wrong but I'd say the Isreali pressing the button or pulling the trigger to blow up the spot where that blue tent was would know that too before he let rip.
It is, but the Palestinians have tons of spots where rockets are fired from underground bunkers outside residential areas. What we see here in the NDTV report is yet another example of Hamas tactic of winning the PR war, an easy battle really considering the Pavlovian response of accusing Israel of indiscriminate killing in schools, hospitals and foreign media spots.
Those criminal Israelis should just let rockets be. They have the Iron Dome after all, the new Nazis.
Absolutely. Of course, I haven't seen many (any?) comments in this thread condoning the tactics of Hamas. Or indeed, Hamas in general. They're a bad bunch. It's the disproportionate response of Israel to their provocation that has outraged people on here (and in the international community in general)
If a lad from someone else's back garden loaded up a double barrel and fired a shot at my house and I knew before I tried to retaliate that he wasn't in that persons back garden anymore the last thing I'd do is blow up the fckin' house and garden belonging to the people he fired it from.
Good post. The Israelis will take a significant hit on their global brand among people who don't already dislike them. One of the unfortunate consequences of the civilian casualties and a lose/lose situation for everyone involved.
The missiles fired from air are aimed at the launchers rather than the people setting them up. I can not see why those would not be legitimate targets. The pilots are defending their homes from rocket fire.
Do you agree with his point. The likelihood is that Hamas fighters are quickly leaving the scene and the IDF are just bombing civilians with no chance of killing a Hamas operative?
It's a fair question.
But that's not enough though, is it? Everyone (bar Mozza et al) thinks that Hamas are bad eggs, but only the Israelis are under constant rocket and mortar fire. Naturally, you have a much wider margin of error trying to sort this shit out from your Dublin living room.
I am not the one making a moronic post trying to pretend that the road linking Gaza to the West Bank will cut Israel in two.
It got the fair answer it deserved.
You got to love this interview with a senior Hamas spokesman, Osama Hamdan. Yourself a camera phone fan, so you may have missed this one on CNN:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/25343-noam-chomsky-|-nightmare-in-gaza
Good article by Chomsky.
He implies that Isreal were just looking for an excuse to flatten Gaza after the Unity government appeared.
Good article by Chomsky.
He implies that Isreal were just looking for an excuse to flatten Gaza after the Unity government appeared.
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Raoul, any credible stats on Fallujah casualties? How many of those were civilians? what was the tactic used to make sure non-combatants were not caught in crossfire? How immediate was danger from insurgency to US civilian population?
Point taken, and the US took an appropriate hit for that as well as Iraq in general - as will Israel now.
What relevance has this to the question of civilian causalities?
Or is it the usual goalpost moving to deflect?
It was a genuine question. The US can afford taking hits Israel can't.
We're blood thirsty. We need blood for baking. We also control global media, you know. God bless cellphones.
I'm no expert on Fallujah, but do know that there was proper on the ground fighting going on to where Al-Qaeda guys were being instructed by their leaders to shoot Americans in the face because the rest of their bodies were completely armored. It was that close at certain points.
The difference here is the level of scrutiny that exists today in terms of instant social media reporting, that didn't exist back then. Hamas' tactic is clearly to lure Israeli forces into striking populated areas, then use the ensuing international sympathy as political leverage. And Israel, by not being more selective about their ROI, has fallen for it - hook, line, and sinker.
Classic HR.
Take a point and twist it to an extraordinary degree to try to paint a poster who questions anything Israel does as a loony anti-semite.
There is no evidence whatsoever that any army in the world would have been any more selective than the IDF was under similar circumstances. Moreover, available evidence suggest otherwise.
It is not surprising at all that none of those blaming Israel, quoting stats from Palestinian sources, never bothered inquiring about combatant casualties? How many were there? What are their names? Figures of 80%, 83% civilians etc. are accepted without critic. As always, by the time the truth surfaces nobody will be interested, and the PR damage will have already been done. The most cynical aspect to this is that the condemnations only reaffirm Hamas' tactics, making sure it will repeated next time round. Whether in Gaza or in the inevitable third Lebanon war.
All the more reason to not do it, or at a minimum be extremely cautious in retaliation in a way that guarantees significantly less dead children and other civilian casualties. Its also unrealistic to expect there will be no condemnations when people's kids are regularly getting killed. That sort of imagery will lose you your moral leverage, tarnish your global brand, and cause people who were previously indifferent to question not just your tactics, but also your broader policies as a nation state.
All nice and well, but there's only so much we can care about the brand. There are risks the Israeli leadership can not take for good PR. Israel had to send a clear message not only to the Palestinians, but to other parties watching with interest. What's the message to Hizballah if Israel can not respond to being targeted from populated areas? PR or not, Gaza would look like a walk in the park compared to the next Lebanon war, on both sides of the border.
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I understand the need to send a message and that the rockets are unacceptable, and certainly most outside observers who weren't already anti-Israel would agree about an appropriate response. The central issue here isn't the response itself, but how it was carried out relative to the short and long term cost/benefit for Israel.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4555463,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qawasameh_tribe
Excellent article for all followers of the Hizballah sympathizing guru
Very delicate issue indeed, which I think was dealt with pretty well by Netanyahu. There would be a wide support for a full invasion, bringing Hamas down on its knees. Fair play to Netanyahu and Ye'elon for keeping their cool with pressure mounting from home and abroad, perhaps most tellingly from Obama's administration. Thankfully, they didn't give in to US pressure to get the Turks and Qataris involved in this as mediators. Hopefully, Hamas will be held accountable by its own people for finally accepting the Egyptian ceasefire it rejected two weeks ago at the cost of hundreds of needless casualties.
I reckon much of the criticism Israel is getting in Europe is lip service aimed to prevent unrest among Muslim minorities. We saw what Paris looked like during the protests, and this phenomenon is more of a European problem than ours. Needless to say that no matter how vocal this criticism is, I would expect my government not to risk one Israeli life under the pressure.
Early reports from Egypt claim the Egyptians are driving a hard bargain and are very unwilling to accept Hamas's demands. The international community is obviously not going to take any major steps like actually being involved in what happens in Gaza, such as making sure funds are directed towards helping the civilians and demilitarizing Hamas. All points to another round of fire in the not too distant future. Two years, maybe three, since the last one was so severe.
And as predicted, Hamas' strategy accomplished nothing.
He is one of the few commentators who highlights why Hamas are around.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm