Are you drunk ? What Quran or Hadith are you on about ? if you bringing Islam/jihad into it then with same token should we agree that Jews are like a cancer on planet earth - certainly they don't have many admirers. If we wipe them out maybe this world will be a peaceful place, no? How does that feel ? I am Muslims and in one sentence you turned us all Muslims feckn looney jihadis.. Read Quran the correct version not some twisted one which is created by some of morons - just like WMD or Al-Qaeda
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Its clearly a two way conflict between two sides that are entrenched against one another, and won't be resolved until both reach a middle ground that they can both live with.
Let's leave the Cancer out of it.
It's an Islamic resistance movement!
Not all Muslims would identify with it and how representative of Muhammad's Islam you think it is depends on your understanding.
Because the Palestinians are Arabs and the Arabs regard that Israel is suppressing & occupying an Arab state and murdering innocent Arab civilisations. That's how they regard this matter. The current conflict as well as Israel's insistence of putting up settlements in occupied territory is just fuelling this feeling amongst the Arabs. And with Israel being so completely out numbered it's a conflict Israel cannot win in the longterm, as many intellectual Jewish people from all over the globe have also pointed out.
Woah, i didn't say that. Misquote?
Actually I understand that the Quran states that other religions should be permitted and tolerated. But I guess it's just what interpretation is used.
Raoul can you please thread ban me, if possible. I am too weak to read all this nonsense here.
I think you have that all wrong, Israel should stop the siege on gaza, stop bulldozing houses with people inside them, and all other UN conventions they have broken, then the retaliatory rockets will stop. What israel is doing is using the excuse of them being the victim, its really getting boring the same old hasbara, change the record. Seems like some on this forum are going through this:
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf
and Israels spokesmen are using:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...hat-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html
well lets see what ex IDF soldiers who were on the front line say about this, no one can be more authentic than these from the Israeli side, their testimony's carry a lot of risk as they will recieve a lot of harrasment:
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/
If Israel was such an angel, then why do their own even protest:
http://972mag.com/no-more-deaths-israelis-protest-the-gaza-war/94380/
Some of the horrors carried out by the Israelis:
Killing innocent helper, in cold blood, was he Hamas:
and When people with authority spout utter evil like this:
http://www.jewishisrael.org/outline-solution-israels-gaza-problem-moshe-feiglin/?utm_source=Moshe Feiglin's Outline for Solution in Gaza&utm_campaign=update&utm_medium=email
Now lets look at the type of people (prime ministers, ex prime minister, leaders , etc) the palestinians are/ or have been; looking to for a two state solution:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php
My conclusion is do not fall for the Israeli hasbara (propoganda)
Israel will now be investigated for war crimes, it will be interesting to see the report when published:
http://time.com/3027716/israel-gaza-hamas-netanyahu-un-human-rights-council/
You are not very familiar with Israel's history are you?
Can you not just stop clicking on it?
Being outnumbered didn't seem to be an issue in past conflicts, I think.
Yes it was Rumpypumpy, don't know how that occurred. Deleted.
What do you think of the new Israeli relations with Kurdistan ?
I'm very educated on history, I know the British & French imperial escapades very well thank you.
i see that you have hasbara manual aswell, well done
I don't even know. If they provide Peshmerga with modern weaponry and act as an economic partner then I'm all for it, but they really are a dodgy country to rely on. Can't count on them imo, especially when Turkey starts sulking.
Your bigotry shines through so well though. The problem isn't Islam, the problem in this case is the occupation of Palestine and the oppression of it's people. Islam is a problem in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, like Christianity is a problem in America and Ghana. I really doubt the people of Gaza, like any other warzone, have the time or resources to follow religion very closely.
Being educated in history, you'd know the Hebrews have always been the smallest and yet there is even a tribe of Israel known as the lion of Judah. Given the advancement in Israeli arms production, it's all a bit simplistic to just say: outnumbered by Arabs, can't win.
Actually Christianity is a problem in America. Most people who support interventionism and Israel tend to also be messianic fanatics
Did you really just compare Christianity in America with Islam in either of Iran and Saudi Arabia? What is wrong with you?
You didn't answer the when, why and how.
This is interesting: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847
This sort of shit gives me Deja Vu.
I'm not the one defending the slaughter of children so you should ask yourself that question.
And it wasn't a direct comparison. I was giving examples of countries where religion is a problem.
More needless demonisation.
I would never deny my own religious inclination and the way scripture (especially the prophetic) influences my view of Israel, but your two thoughts aren't connected. Messianic fanatics could only refer to Messianic Jews (Jews who accepted Jesus Christ as Lord). Orthodox Jews believe in a coming Messiah also, it just isn't Jesus Christ. All Christians are "Messianic fanatics" because Christ means Messiah. Yeshua Hamashiach being the Hebrew equivalent.
You're a clown. The last thing this situation needs is yet more people consulting their religious prophesies and entitlements.So your support for Israel is tied to the end of days ?
the one thing missing from this was religion...
oh wait....
oh wait....
It almost avoids the issue to answer this and it should really be sufficient to note that my contribution to this thread has not relied on prophecy.
Within the Christian perspective, there is a view of what Israel is now and what Israel is to be. The return of Christ intersects the two. One is not to be confused with the other. Every Christian's hope is the return of Christ and Biblically, the place of return is identified as the Mount of Olives and Christ reigns out of Jerusalem (which is Biblically described as the Lord's inheritance and the seat of Davidic Kingship) with the Kingdom of God spreading outwards to the nations. So, Israel is bound up in the promise of Christ's return. Prior to that return there are a whole series of prophecies concerning Israel which I don't think should be articulated here.
Support for Israel as it is now is not unconditional on every level because Israel, if you'll excuse the Christian language, is without her King. But my view of what Israel will be contrasts what others believe, of course. As I mentioned before, I am used to others mocking Biblical Christianity but the conversation regarding Israel's actions today should remain where it has largely been previously in this thread. I just hope for an increase in quality.
Having endured victimisation for many centuries, I was surprised to see how the Israelis are booting out Africans.
Gotcha
Well that's evidently the root of your conviction of the fairness of the establishment of an Israeli state in contrast to unfairness implicit in the ignoring of the secular principles of self-determination.
Depends where you stick the pin in the time line, where and who you include in the self determination.
Quite simple as far as I can see. Palestine post-Ottoman empire, post-WWI 1918, people living in the territory.
Most nations on the planet today have been formed out of conquest and land divided up on the maps of those with the influence to do it.
We need to keep a sense of perspective with Israel. This was previously a barren stretch of land that the Jewish people have had the longest historical link to, as well as always having a presence there. Events following the second world war can be seen as justifying the return of the Jewish people to their historic homeland and to deny that is simply cruel. The circumstances surrounding Israel's establishment cannot be ignored. For all who want to say that it was somehow to the oppression of a hypothetical Palestinian state (which could still exist, by the way) there are just as many who can argue that it was and continues to be a mercy to the Jewish people.
I don't see the problem with the principles on which Israel was founded.
But its not 1918 Pete and if you are going to do the pick your time and place for a mandate, then why is this time and place/ border special compared to any other time?
Aaaand I'm out.
Since 1918 we have tried to follow principles of self-determination not colonialism/imperialism or might is right - on that basis a Palestinian state should have been instituted in 1918 (as agreed with the British and French under the MacMahon undertaking)